Question about hadith

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum. The hadiths below are from Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Muhammad asked Abu Dharr if he knows where the sun goes at sunset. Abu Dharr had no idea, so Muhammad told him that it glides until it reaches it's "resting place", and then prostrates under God's throne until permission is given for it to rise up and come back to the place from where it came, so it goes up again and glides back until it reaches its resting place where it prostrates and then is given permission to rise again.


(1) Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38) (Book #54, Hadith #421)

(1) It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. (Book #001, Hadith #0297)

Search the word sun throne in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)


How could Muhammad have said such a thing?

We know that the sun is in constant motion, though different from the earth. It is always moving, though its movement has nothing to do with sunrise or sunset.

Interestingly enough, during two days a year, during what is called the winter solstice, it does actually pause in its orbit.

On Dec. 21, the sun stops moving southward, pauses, and then starts moving northward. This pause is called the "solstice," from the Latin words "sol" for "sun" and "sisto" for "stop." Similarly, on June 21 the sun stops moving northward and starts moving southward.

Winter Solstice: The Sun Stands Still on Saturday

This however happens twice a year. According to what Muhammad taught, the sun pauses once every 24 hours.

We know that what we call "sunrise" is caused by the earth moving around the sun, not the sun gliding until it reaches its resting place, where it prostrates until it is given permission to move again.


How did Muhammad get the idea to tell his followers that the sun's movement is what causes what we call "sunrise", and that every 24 hours, after it sets, it stops moving and remains in a certain place before going on its way to rise again?



I am really not trying to be insulting, but I would be interested in hearing what Muslims think about this.

 

[islam means peace]

Well, to the best of knowledge Allah has given me, i can answer , that if Prophet Muhmadad Said above , its surely right, we might not able to judge it from our knowlege till now.

Let me give exmaple, there was Hadith , its says something like that , before the day of judgement i mean at the time of DAJJAL, he will speak in one part of earth and will be listend at other part (you can say in west he speak and in norht it listen), now if you ask the same question around 500 years back, the question will be simply just like your above,

How that possible? How can a persion shoult in such a loud voice? or something same in our mind. But now you konw how it can be done

So our mind and knowlege in not enough yet to understand that thing, thing and meaning might not be what we are thinking.

I think this example can tell you what i mean to say

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum. The hadiths below are from Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Muhammad asked Abu Dharr if he knows where the sun goes at sunset. Abu Dharr had no idea, so Muhammad told him that it glides until it reaches it's "resting place", and then prostrates under God's throne until permission is given for it to rise up and come back to the place from where it came, so it goes up again and glides back until it reaches its resting place where it prostrates and then is given permission to rise again.


(1) Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38) (Book #54, Hadith #421)

(1) It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. (Book #001, Hadith #0297)

Search the word sun throne in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)


How could Muhammad have said such a thing?

We know that the sun is in constant motion, though different from the earth. It is always moving, though its movement has nothing to do with sunrise or sunset.

Interestingly enough, during two days a year, during what is called the winter solstice, it does actually pause in its orbit.

On Dec. 21, the sun stops moving southward, pauses, and then starts moving northward. This pause is called the "solstice," from the Latin words "sol" for "sun" and "sisto" for "stop." Similarly, on June 21 the sun stops moving northward and starts moving southward.

Winter Solstice: The Sun Stands Still on Saturday

This however happens twice a year. According to what Muhammad taught, the sun pauses once every 24 hours.

We know that what we call "sunrise" is caused by the earth moving around the sun, not the sun gliding until it reaches its resting place, where it prostrates until it is given permission to move again.


How did Muhammad get the idea to tell his followers that the sun's movement is what causes what we call "sunrise", and that every 24 hours, after it sets, it stops moving and remains in a certain place before going on its way to rise again?



I am really not trying to be insulting, but I would be interested in hearing what Muslims think about this.

There are many hadith that don't make sense.

The verse is very clear that the sun and the moon will keep running for a specific period of time and not for ever, the time of running was already specified so why the sun has to ask for a permission while it's running for the time appointed already by God.

 

[TG123456]

Well, to the best of knowledge Allah has given me, i can answer , that if Prophet Muhmadad Said above , its surely right, we might not able to judge it from our knowlege till now.

Let me give exmaple, there was Hadith , its says something like that , before the day of judgement i mean at the time of DAJJAL, he will speak in one part of earth and will be listend at other part (you can say in west he speak and in norht it listen), now if you ask the same question around 500 years back, the question will be simply just like your above,

How that possible? How can a persion shoult in such a loud voice? or something same in our mind. But now you konw how it can be done

So our mind and knowlege in not enough yet to understand that thing, thing and meaning might not be what we are thinking.

I think this example can tell you what i mean to say

Salaam Alaikum, islammeanspeace.

Thank you for the answer. There is no way for us to prove whether or not someone will come along on the Last Day who will have a very loud voice as the Dajjal, because the Dajjal has not been born yet.

Muhammad's statement on the sun is different. Everyday, it allegedly rises and glides over to certain place, where after setting it remains in place until permission is given for it to rise again. Then it glides over again, rises, sets, glides, stops, waits, glides and rises and continues to repeat.

By observing the movement of the sun, it can be clearly shown that this is a false teaching. The sun is in constant motion, other than during two days of the year. More importantly, it's movement is irrelevant on what we call "sunrise" and "sunset"- these things are caused by the movement of the earth, and not the movement of the sun.

If I were tell you that the moon is made out of cheese, centuries ago you have had no choice but to either agree, or disagree but without being able to provide evidence that I am wrong. Today, with modern space technology, we have not only been able to observe the moon up close but visit it and take samples, and we know it is not made out of cheese.

Likewise, we know today for a certainty with modern technology that the sun does not stop moving every 24 hours, and that its motion does not affect "sunrise".

 

[TG123456]

There are many hadith that don't make sense.

I agree.

The verse is very clear that the sun and the moon will keep running for a specific period of time and not for ever, the time of running was already specified so why the sun has to ask for a permission while it's running for the time appointed already by God.

I agree also. The problem however is not with the verse above, but with the Quran's teaching that Muslims are to listen to both God and Muhammad (who is His Messenger)

4:80
He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.

47:33
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and do not invalidate your deeds.


The Quran's author is telling Muslims to obey a man who made false prophecies (like the coccyx never decaying) and who invoked God's name in telling people stories like the one in the hadith above, that clearly are false.

If Muhammas was the Messenger of God, why did he say some things that we know to be blatantly false, and why did he invoke God in these teachings?
Where was he getting this stuff from?

 

[FearGod]

I agree.


I agree also. The problem however is not with the verse above, but with the Quran's teaching that Muslims are to listen to both God and Muhammad (who is His Messenger)

4:80
He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.

47:33
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and do not invalidate your deeds.


The Quran's author is telling Muslims to obey a man who made false prophecies (like the coccyx never decaying) and who invoked God's name in telling people stories like the one in the hadith above, that clearly are false.

If Muhammas was the Messenger of God, why did he say some things that we know to be blatantly false, and why did he invoke God in these teachings?
Where was he getting this stuff from?

If the hadith contradicts the quran then the hadith is false.

The quran was memorized by heart which isn't the case with the stories which were narrated by people about the prophet's sayings and even hundreds of years of years after his death.

If you find something wrong in the quran itself then you'll be the smart man.

 

[TG123456]

If the hadith contradicts the quran then the hadith is false.

This hadith does not contradict the Quran, but it is still false.

The quran was memorized by heart which isn't the case with the stories which were narrated by people about the prophet's sayings and even hundreds of years of years after his death.

True, but these stories went through a very stringent verification process, and those that are in Sahih Bukhari are to the best of my knowledge considered authentic. This also applies to almost all of the stories in Sahih Muslim.

Do you have evidence that the hadiths I cited above were not the words of Muhammad?

If you find something wrong in the quran itself then you'll be the smart man.

Well, I am not a smart man and never claimed to be, but I can give you examples.

One of the problems is that the Quran tells people that he who obeys the Messenger obeys God. Yet how can you obey someone who claims God sent him, yet is telling you things that are obviously false, like the sun stopping every 24 hours and then coming up out to rise again, or making a false prophecy about the coccyx never decaying when we all know that like every other bone, it does*?

* For more information on that, please feel free to read the ongoing debate on the page below.
Spinal chord hadith | ReligiousForums.com

If you would like me to show you errors in the Quran that do not concern Muhammad, let me know also.

 

[FearGod]

This hadith does not contradict the Quran, but it is still false.

It contradicts the quran and i had already explained it.

True, but these stories went through a very stringent verification process, and those that are in Sahih Bukhari are to the best of my knowledge considered authentic. This also applies to almost all of the stories in Sahih Muslim.

Not all Muslims think the same way that you wish to think, Some Muslims don't trust many hadiths because some proven to be weak and only people are the ones filtering those hadiths and they won't be perfect in doing so, humans do mistakes.

Do you have evidence that the hadiths I cited above were not the words of Muhammad?

I have to travel 1500 years back to bring the evidence, i'm not a time machine.

Well, I am not a smart man and never claimed to be, but I can give you examples.

One of the problems is that the Quran tells people that he who obeys the Messenger obeys God. Yet how can you obey someone who claims God sent him, yet is telling you things that are obviously false, like the sun stopping every 24 hours and then coming up out to rise again, or making a false prophecy about the coccyx never decaying when we all know that like every other bone, it does*?

* For more information on that, please feel free to read the ongoing debate on the page below.
Spinal chord hadith | ReligiousForums.com

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/spinal-chord-hadith.171475/

We have to obey the prophet's message and which is the quran, how to obey the prophet while he is dead.

If you would like me to show you errors in the Quran that do not concern Muhammad, let me know also.

Yes, show me the errors in the quran.[/QUOTE]

 

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum, FearGod. Great name, btw. May it be an admonishment to us all.

It contradicts the quran and i had already explained it.

My apologies, I overlooked that.

You wrote:

The verse is very clear that the sun and the moon will keep running for a specific period of time and not for ever, the time of running was already specified so why the sun has to ask for a permission while it's running for the time appointed already by God.

I don't see how this is a contradiction.

Why can the sun not stop and ask God for renewed permission to rise? The verse states that it will keep running for a specific period of time, does the sun know the date it is to stop running?

Not all Muslims think the same way that you wish to think, Some Muslims don't trust many hadiths because some proven to be weak and only people are the ones filtering those hadiths and they won't be perfect in doing so, humans do mistakes.

So do you reject the hadiths? I know there are some Muslims who are Quran-Only Muslims. They accept the Quran only and reject the hadiths. Are you one of them?

I have to travel 1500 years back to bring the evidence, i'm not a time machine.

Wouldn't you have to make the same trip to verify the Quran was revealed to him, and not changed after his death?

We have to obey the prophet's message and which is the quran, how to obey the prophet while he is dead.

Is the Quran not the work of God, not Muhammad? If you follow the message of the Quran are you following the message of God, or Muhammad?

Yes, show me the errors in the quran.

[/QUOTE]
No problem. We'll just start off with one.

31:14
And We have enjoined upon man [care] for his parents. His mother carried him, [increasing her] in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Be grateful to Me and to your parents; to Me is the [final] destination.

46:15
And We have enjoined upon man, to his parents, good treatment. His mother carried him with hardship and gave birth to him with hardship, and his gestation and weaning [period] is thirty months. [He grows] until, when he reaches maturity and reaches [the age of] forty years, he says, "My Lord, enable me to be grateful for Your favor which You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents and to work righteousness of which You will approve and make righteous for me my offspring. Indeed, I have repented to You, and indeed, I am of the Muslims."

According to the Quran's author, weaning and gestation last 30 months, and weaning lasts 2 years. That would mean that gestation lasts 6 months. We know however that a baby is in its mothers' womb usually for 9 months, not 6.

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum, FearGod. Great name, btw. May it be an admonishment to us all.

Thank you

My apologies, I overlooked that.

You wrote:

The verse is very clear that the sun and the moon will keep running for a specific period of time and not for ever, the time of running was already specified so why the sun has to ask for a permission while it's running for the time appointed already by God.

I don't see how this is a contradiction.

Why can the sun not stop and ask God for renewed permission to rise? The verse states that it will keep running for a specific period of time, does the sun know the date it is to stop running?

Have a look at verse (13:2)

Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.(13:2)

The sun doesn't ask for a permission, it'll run the course planned for it which means that the sun won't run for ever.

So do you reject the hadiths? I know there are some Muslims who are Quran-Only Muslims. They accept the Quran only and reject the hadiths. Are you one of them?

I reject the ones which contradict the quran and the ones that look silly.

Wouldn't you have to make the same trip to verify the Quran was revealed to him, and not changed after his death?

The quran was ordered to be memorized by heart from the beginning.

Is the Quran not the work of God, not Muhammad? If you follow the message of the Quran are you following the message of God, or Muhammad?

It's God's message, prophet Muhammed just delivered it.

No problem. We'll just start off with one.

31:14
And We have enjoined upon man [care] for his parents. His mother carried him, [increasing her] in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Be grateful to Me and to your parents; to Me is the [final] destination.

46:15
And We have enjoined upon man, to his parents, good treatment. His mother carried him with hardship and gave birth to him with hardship, and his gestation and weaning [period] is thirty months. [He grows] until, when he reaches maturity and reaches [the age of] forty years, he says, "My Lord, enable me to be grateful for Your favor which You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents and to work righteousness of which You will approve and make righteous for me my offspring. Indeed, I have repented to You, and indeed, I am of the Muslims."

According to the Quran's author, weaning and gestation last 30 months, and weaning lasts 2 years. That would mean that gestation lasts 6 months. We know however that a baby is in its mothers' womb usually for 9 months, not 6.

There is no specific date for weaning, in verse 31:14 it says in 2 years, which means within 2 years and not full or completely a closed 2 years, IOW it can be 1.5 , 1.6 , 1.7 ...etc

For verse 46:15, it says 30 months for both pregnancy and weaning, so it is 9 months for pregnancy and 21 months for weaning which is within the 2 years given in verse 31:14

As you see there is no error in both verses except if we wish it to be so.

 

[TG123456]

Thank you

Afwan, and thank YOU for choosing such a name.

Have a look at verse (13:2)

Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.(13:2)

The sun doesn't ask for a permission, it'll run the course planned for it which means that the sun won't run for ever.

Notice that the part I bolded. If God regulates all affairs, surely that must also mean the sun rising and setting. Why could part of the course not mean a 24 hour pause to prostrate?

I reject the ones which contradict the quran and the ones that look silly.

I get the first part, but how do you decide what is and is not "silly"?

The quran was ordered to be memorized by heart from the beginning.

Where does the Quran say that, and how does that make it free from interpolation? What if what you are memorizing has been messed with?

It's God's message, prophet Muhammed just delivered it.

Then why follow Muhammad? What is there to follow, if you just rely on the Quran?

There is no specific date for weaning, in verse 31:14 it says in 2 years, which means within 2 years and not full or completely a closed 2 years, IOW it can be 1.5 , 1.6 , 1.7 ...etc

For verse 46:15, it says 30 months for both pregnancy and weaning, so it is 9 months for pregnancy and 21 months for weaning which is within the 2 years given in verse 31:14

As you see there is no error in both verses except if we wish it to be so.

If the Quran is saying that breastfeeding should take place within 2 years and that a normally born baby (around 9 months) should receive 21 months breastfeeding, then its author may be giving mothers advice that could end up hurting their child.

How long should a mother breastfeed?
The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recommends that breastfeeding continue for at least 12 months, and thereafter for as long as mother and baby desire. The World Health Organization recommends continued breastfeeding up to 2 years of age or beyond.

Breastfeeding: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) | DNPAO | CDC


Health effects

Priscilla Colletto stated in Beyond Toddlerhood: The Breastfeeding Relationship Continues, "The adverse health effects of weaning a child before or during toddlerhood are well documented for Third World countries such as Guinea-Bissau, where children who were no longer breastfed at ages 12–35 months had a 3.5 times higher mortality rate than did their peers who continued to breastfeed."[171] Dr. Laurence Grummer-Strawn, widely known in the breastfeeding research and advocacy communities,[172] observed that breastfeeding is protective against diarrheal diseases and other infections and that breastfed children aged 12 to 36 months in Indonesia have much greater mid-arm circumference than children who have been weaned at an early age. He also noted that the incidence of malnourishment in breastfed Indonesian children is 3–5% less common than generally encountered in early-weened children. In one study, artificially fed infants had 2 to 3 times as many episodes of significant illnesses (defined as "otitis media, lower respiratory disease, significant vomiting or diarrhea, and any illness requiring hospital admission").[151] In traditional human societies, the lack of nutrients missing in breast milk such as iron, zinc, and vitamin b12 was supplemented through premastication and feeding of meat to the child.[173][174]

Breastfeeding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Why would God state that weaning should take place within 2 years (and for most kids 21 months only) if in developing countries like Guinea Bisseau and even Indonesia children who were breastfed for a year longer had a much higher chance of surviving and being healthy than those who did not?

 

[TG123456]

As I wrote earlier, the World Health Organization recommends breastfeeding up to at least 2 years of age or later. According to the Quran, the average child needs only 21 months of breastfeeding.

Key facts

• Every infant and child has the right to good nutrition according to the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
• Undernutrition is associated with 45% of child deaths.
• Globally in 2012, 162 million children under 5 were estimated to be stunted and 51 million have low weight-for-height, mostly as a consequence of poor feeding and repeated infections; 44 million were overweight or obese.
• About 38% of infants 0 to 6 months old are exclusively breastfed.
• Few children receive nutritionally adequate and safe complementary foods; in many countries only a third of breastfed infants 6–23 months of age meet the criteria of dietary diversity and feeding frequency that are appropriate for their age.
• About 800 000 children's lives could be saved every year among children under 5, if all children 0–23 months were optimally breastfed.

WHO | Infant and young child feeding

Although kids breastfed for 3 years, especially in some developing countries, have a better chance at survival and good health than those who do not; the minimum it seems is 23 months... yet the Quran's author, who claims to be God, seems to be telling parents of most children that 21 months is enough.

Why would God give parents advice that could lead to them unintentionally harming or even killing their children?

Which is easier to believe? That God wants to give parents bad advice so their kids die young or are develop serious health problems? Or that these verses, or at least some parts of them, did not come from Him in the first place?

 

[FearGod]

Afwan, and thank YOU for choosing such a name.

Notice that the part I bolded. If God regulates all affairs, surely that must also mean the sun rising and setting. Why could part of the course not mean a 24 hour pause to prostrate?

Because the quran doesn't mention that the sun pause to prostrate, but if you want it to be so then it's a wishful thinking.

I get the first part, but how do you decide what is and is not "silly"?

By common sense.

Where does the Quran say that, and how does that make it free from interpolation? What if what you are memorizing has been messed with?

God asked people to memorize the quran and that its verses was made in such away as to be easily memorized.

We have made the Koran easy to remember, is there any that will remember!(54:17),
"What if", then again a wishful thinking.

Then why follow Muhammad? What is there to follow, if you just rely on the Quran?

We follow God's message through Muhammed, he is a messenger.
The messenger job is to deliver the message.

 

[FearGod]

As I wrote earlier, the World Health Organization recommends breastfeeding up to at least 2 years of age or later. According to the Quran, the average child needs only 21 months of breastfeeding.

Key facts

• Every infant and child has the right to good nutrition according to the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
• Undernutrition is associated with 45% of child deaths.
• Globally in 2012, 162 million children under 5 were estimated to be stunted and 51 million have low weight-for-height, mostly as a consequence of poor feeding and repeated infections; 44 million were overweight or obese.
• About 38% of infants 0 to 6 months old are exclusively breastfed.
• Few children receive nutritionally adequate and safe complementary foods; in many countries only a third of breastfed infants 6–23 months of age meet the criteria of dietary diversity and feeding frequency that are appropriate for their age.
• About 800 000 children's lives could be saved every year among children under 5, if all children 0–23 months were optimally breastfed.

WHO | Infant and young child feeding

Although kids breastfed for 3 years, especially in some developing countries, have a better chance at survival and good health than those who do not; the minimum it seems is 23 months... yet the Quran's author, who claims to be God, seems to be telling parents of most children that 21 months is enough.

Why would God give parents advice that could lead to them unintentionally harming or even killing their children?

Which is easier to believe? That God wants to give parents bad advice so their kids die young or are develop serious health problems? Or that these verses, or at least some parts of them, did not come from Him in the first place?

You don't need to bring many articles about breastfeeding.

Weaning doesn't mean to stop breastfeeding but to reduce it till mother find it suitable to stop breastfeeding, weaning sometimes takes months before stopping breastfeeding.

 

[TG123456]

Because the quran doesn't mention that the sun pause to prostrate, but if you want it to be so then it's a wishful thinking.

No, but it does mention that it floats in an orbit.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe for one second that the sun stops every 24 to prostrate or do whatever else.

I don't see though how that is a contradiction of the Quran, and neither do a majority of Muslim scholars, if not all of them, who recognize it as something that Muhammad said.

I think the reason you are rejecting that this could have came from Muhammad is that if it did, it means he gave some false teachings. Yet this hadith is in the Bukhari collection and classified as sahih, meaning it passed the verification tests like a reliable narrator, a strong transmission chain, lack of conflict with the Quran, etc. It is very clearly something that Muhammad did say.

And it is wrong.

By common sense.

Do you use the same standard for verses in the Quran?

God asked people to memorize the quran and that its verses was made in such away as to be easily memorized.

We have made the Koran easy to remember, is there any that will remember!(54:17),

Thank you for presenting your evidence on this.

"What if", then again a wishful thinking.

How is it less wishful than classifying something that Muhammad most likely said as something he did not say, merely because it is false and makes no sense?

We follow God's message through Muhammed, he is a messenger.
The messenger job is to deliver the message.

So aside from the Quran, is there anything else Muhammad transmitted that is worthy of following?

 

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum, FearGod.

You don't need to bring many articles about breastfeeding.

Weaning doesn't mean to stop breastfeeding but to reduce it till mother find it suitable to stop breastfeeding, weaning sometimes takes months before stopping breastfeeding.

Let's look at what the Quran has to say, about both weaning and breastfeeding.

2:233

Mothers may breastfeed their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is the mothers' provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Seeing of what you do.


31:14

And We have enjoined upon man [care] for his parents. His mother carried him, [increasing her] in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Be grateful to Me and to your parents; to Me is the [final] destination.

Breastfeeding means feeding from the breast. A baby does that before he or she starts weaning, and during weaning, until that period is completed. A baby usually drinks milk only for 6 months, and then is weaned onto solid food.

Weaning means when a baby is introduced to solid food, and as a child weans he or she eats both solid food and breastmilk until he or she no longer has to drink breastmilk.


How can breastfeeding and weaning both last 2 years?

A baby who is weaning is also by definition breastfeeding. A baby that weans and breastfeeds for the exact same amount of time would be a baby that is eating solid food from day one, yet we both know that is impossible.



Also, if we examine 2:233 again, notice that it says mothers may breastfeed their children for 2 years, for whoever wishes to complete the period.

Why is this even a choice? Medically, children who are breastfed less than 2 years are worse off than those who are breastfed for this time... and those who are breastfed for longer than 2 years do even better, especially in developing countries like Indonesia and Guinea.

Why would God tell parents that taking care to prevent their child from dying young or getting very sick is a choice?

 

[FearGod]

No, but it does mention that it floats in an orbit.

Where did it say floating
God says
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.(13:2)

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe for one second that the sun stops every 24 to prostrate or do whatever else.

Of course no one believes this because the sun had already being subjected to his laws

I don't see though how that is a contradiction of the Quran, and neither do a majority of Muslim scholars, if not all of them, who recognize it as something that Muhammad said.

Many scholars are stupid, so what

I think the reason you are rejecting that this could have came from Muhammad is that if it did, it means he gave some false teachings. Yet this hadith is in the Bukhari collection and classified as sahih, meaning it passed the verification tests like a reliable narrator, a strong transmission chain, lack of conflict with the Quran, etc. It is very clearly something that Muhammad did say.

And it is wrong.

You may believe that Muhammed said such stupid thing but for me i don't believe it.

Do you think that Muhammed said that the universe was a one unity before God separated it (the big bang) or it was the saying of God ?

Do you think Muhammed knew that the space is expanding or God said so ? How Muhammed knew about expanding of the universe and for your information some stupid scholars didn't understand what these verses are about ?

Do you use the same standard for verses in the Quran?

As i said to you the verses of the quran are correct, so any error in the quran will indicate that the religion is false

Thank you for presenting your evidence on this.

You're welcome.

How is it less wishful than classifying something that Muhammad most likely said as something he did not say, merely because it is false and makes no sense?

Because many hadith were proven to be wrong, that is the reason that they investigate the hadith, we can never confirm a hadith to be 100% correct which isn't the case with the quran.

So aside from the Quran, is there anything else Muhammad transmitted that is worthy of following?

Yes, Muhammed requested them to do the same as he did, such as the way he prayed, the way he treated people..etc, but still some stupid translated his saying as to wear what he wore.

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum, FearGod.


Let's look at what the Quran has to say, about both weaning and breastfeeding.

2:233

Mothers may breastfeed their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is the mothers' provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Seeing of what you do.


31:14

And We have enjoined upon man [care] for his parents. His mother carried him, [increasing her] in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Be grateful to Me and to your parents; to Me is the [final] destination.

Breastfeeding means feeding from the breast. A baby does that before he or she starts weaning, and during weaning, until that period is completed. A baby usually drinks milk only for 6 months, and then is weaned onto solid food.

Weaning means when a baby is introduced to solid food, and as a child weans he or she eats both solid food and breastmilk until he or she no longer has to drink breastmilk.


How can breastfeeding and weaning both last 2 years?

A baby who is weaning is also by definition breastfeeding. A baby that weans and breastfeeds for the exact same amount of time would be a baby that is eating solid food from day one, yet we both know that is impossible.



Also, if we examine 2:233 again, notice that it says mothers may breastfeed their children for 2 years, for whoever wishes to complete the period.

Why is this even a choice? Medically, children who are breastfed less than 2 years are worse off than those who are breastfed for this time... and those who are breastfed for longer than 2 years do even better, especially in developing countries like Indonesia and Guinea.

Why would God tell parents that taking care to prevent their child from dying young or getting very sick is a choice?

Your argument about breastfeeding and weaning as being wrong in the quran is weak.

I think breastfeeding for 2 whole years is more than enough that even women today don't follow, have a look at the survey on breastfeeding.

https://www.lansinoh.com/uploads/files/general/Global_Survey_Executive_Summary_-_US_Version.pdf

 

[TG123456]

Where did it say floating

My apologies. The verse translates into English saying that the sun "runs".

God says
Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.(13:2)

Of course no one believes this because the sun had already being subjected to his laws

How would the affairs of the sun's movement being regulated prevent it from stopping once a day to ask God for permission to continue? Couldn't this be part of its course?

Many scholars are stupid, so what

How do you know their opinion is wrong, and yours is correct?

You may believe that Muhammed said such stupid thing but for me i don't believe it.

Do you have any reasons for this except that if he did, it could pose a problem to your faith in him being God's prophet?

Do you think that Muhammed said that the universe was a one unity before God separated it (the big bang) or it was the saying of God ?

Do you think Muhammed knew that the space is expanding or God said so ? How Muhammed knew about expanding of the universe and for your information some stupid scholars didn't understand what these verses are about ?

I agree, this is pretty awesome knowledge that an ordinary person would not have known.

As i said to you the verses of the quran are correct, so any error in the quran will indicate that the religion is false

Yet we already have seen two of them, which we are discussing in the following post.

You're welcome.

No problem.

Because many hadith were proven to be wrong, that is the reason that they investigate the hadith, we can never confirm a hadith to be 100% correct which isn't the case with the quran.

Yes, Muhammed requested them to do the same as he did, such as the way he prayed, the way he treated people..etc, but still some stupid translated his saying as to wear what he wore.

If you can never confirm a hadith to be 100% correct, how do you know that the hadiths detailing how Muhammad prayed and treated people are correct?

 

[TG123456]

Your argument about breastfeeding and weaning as being wrong in the quran is weak.

How and why is my argument weak?

A child that is being weaned is also by definition being breastfed. The only way that both breastfeeding and weaning can last 2 years is if a child starts being weaned to solid food from its first day of birth. We both know that does not happen.

I think breastfeeding for 2 whole years is more than enough that even women today don't follow, have a look at the survey on breastfeeding.

https://www.lansinoh.com/uploads/files/general/Global_Survey_Executive_Summary_-_US_Version.pdf

You are comparing an opinion survey to medical studies that show that children who are breastfed for less than two years, especially in developing countries, risk deaths and diseases. There is evidence of children who were breastfed for 2 or more years living longer and being healthier than children who were breastfed for less than 23 months.

Currently, more and more people in the United States are in favour of legalizing marijuana.
Legalize it, poll shows - The Washington Post

Does that mean marijuana is good for you?