I have a question,as far as I understand Buddhism's main goal is to free yourself from detachments and to escape the wheel of Samsara,which means that when you become enlightened,you are no longer reborn,that ends the cycle,my question is what is the purpose for that?Why would someone want to end his cycle of rebirths,then you just cease to exist,so what is the point?Isnt it better to constantly be reborn and live?Isnt that better?Why would you just kill yourself like that by attaining enlightenment and putting an end to your rebirths?
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Question about enlightment?
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DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
Nirvana is a difficult thing to talk about and there are plenty of pitfalls in doing so. Nirvana doesn't imply non-existance like simply *pop* and you totally cease to exist and are as good as dead. It's a common misinterpretation; even my college philosophy teacher taught that point of view (it was community college though
).(Bolding is mine)
I would rephrase "Buddhism's main goal" to be to free one's self from stress and dissatisfaction. Nothing in life will ever totally satisfy us, the satisfaction will always be lackluster or it will fade away in time. All things change, all things are conditioned and nothing is stable or permanent; so, desirable life circumstances change, they depend on many factors that are out of our direct control and will always come to and end. If a person has not yet realized how painful and rough life is, they must be young and/or have a very easy life.
'Tis better to read from the source instead of reading about the source:
Nibbana: nibbana
Access to insight is a good site to learn about basic Theravada Buddhism and anything to do with the Pali Cannon of scriptures; it's articles always quote and cite the source scripture.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
DreadFish said it well. The simple answer to your OP is that Nirvana is not actually non-existence. Like DreadFish pointed out, this is a common misconception. Nirvana is a state that transcends both existence and non-existence. The reason why one would want to achieve this, and leave the realm of samsara, is that samsara is suffering, dukkha. Nirvana is the ending of suffering, attachment, ignorance. It's not annihilation, it's transcendence.
Is nirvana a state of mind? Or is it statelessness?
Is dukkha totally transcended? Or transformed into something useful?
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
I think it's better to say that it is stateless as nirvana is total cessation of the conceptual flow. It doesn't do nirvana any justice to say too much about it, IMO.
I dont know about the second one.
Dukkha ceases through the cessation of craving based on the aggregates. The Noble Eightfold Path is the method for achieving this cessation of craving, becoming, and dukkha. Transcendence of this cycle is Nirvana.
The belief that the world is full of sorrow, although common to all the philosophical Indian systems, has not been equally emphasized in all of them; but finds its strongest utterance in Samkhya, Buddhism and Yoga. Yet, neither of these last philosophies are bittersweet; on the contrary, they teach you the path of a joyful deliverance.
What is sorrow then?
Well, Samkhya is what might be the best philosophy to explain the Indian point of view of sorrow. It explains it this way: An aggregate like water (H2O) brings good (quenching,) as well as bad (flooding) qualities, which always brings an unavoidable sorrow somehow. So what you need is to free yourself from the bond of aggregation; from the bond between H and 2O. And Buddha added: from both H & 0 as well (from Atman and the phenomenal realm, whose aggregation brings creation and its lots of sorrowful qualities (good & bad in every things)).
It means that any creation leads to something impermanent, always wanting but never getting, delusionary and causing sorrow and death in the long run.
So you must get rid of everything for, at your level, none of these three carry freedom within them (H, 0 and H-20 / Atman, phenomenal realm and creation).
Therefore no need to think about things like an afterworld, a God (even if He/she exists) [things not of this world] or worst, what was creation at the beginning; or even if we are ruled by aliens (might it be true) [things of this world]. All that Buddha teaches you is to free yourself from the ineluctable sorrow of this world; to free yourself from everything.
People who have experienced the peacefulness of ataraxis, that comes from the detachment of all things inherently sorrowful in this world, cannot believe in anything less than Nirvana (Nibbana), which is the ultimate stage of the process. Whatever there is afterward.
Buddhists reach for freedom, through joy, peacefulness and goodness (for the true ones) - for a realm that is (and we don't care about what it is) not (at all) of this world. The path to it, being so rewardful of positive experiences, of equanimity and peacefulness, that the bet is worth the try. Plus you hurt no one in the process, which is a good reason by itself (in this life).
Cheers
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Thanks for the clarification.
It appears that some of us seek to escape the world of dust while others dance with the dust of the world. Is one way superior to the other? Why or why not?
Jeremy Taylor
Active Member
As others have said, Nirvana is hard to talk about. But for a modern Westerner this can leave one perplexed. Nirvana, though, is transcendent. It is variously described in the Pali Canon as a state of perfection, bliss, law, awakening, and so on.
Let me be a little more specific about this, so I will also answer the question: "Why would you just kill yourself like that by attaining enlightenment and putting an end to your rebirths?"
When I talked about "a realm that is (and we don't care about what it is) not (at all) of this world." I mean by this, that the attribute that is in this world, from the other world (from Atman), is not what we can call a "nice" attribute; for it contributes, through dependant origination, to the stress of this world.
In other words, this "attribute" (that is the "influence" of Atman) , is not the best attribute of Atman we could wish for.
You follow me so far?
So, if you have to get rid of the things of the ego (feelings, smell, touch, perception, determinations etc.), you have also to get rid of not-perception, not-determainations, etc; which are the attribute of Atta (the "influence" of Atman - a.k.a. self).
In Buddhism Anatta (which is very often misinterpreted,) means not-self.
As in perception is not-self.
It means that perception does not belong to self. Perception is not an attribute of self.
So not-perception is self; not-perception is an attribute of self.
And you have to get rid of this also.
You have to get rid of this "not the best attribute" of Atman (a.k.a. Self with capital letter). Which by the way is (Atman) something you don't know about, apart from that "not so cool" attribute that is Atta (a.k.a. self - small s).
It does not mean that the rest is bad.
So to answer the question: "Why would you just kill yourself like that by attaining enlightenment and putting an end to your rebirths?"
Because you would never reach the jhanas that allow you to get rid of such things as not-perception (of all the attributes of the self, of Atta).
So first, you get rid of the attributes of the Ego, then of the attributes of the Atta, and then you wait quietly for death to take the last remainder of perception that you have still in your ego.
You could kill yourself, at that point - or you could teach also.
The End!
Is Atman getting rid of his bad attributes in the all process of creation (dependant origination)?
And does he like us to help him do so?
Certainly!
When you no longer believe a false idea of who you are, there is no wrong idea left and one is free to perceive what is.
The seeds that lead to incarnation can cease and at that point one is no longer compelled to reincarnate, but you are not compelled to be disembodied. Freedom of expression allows all possibilities.
This is the reason that your final question about killing yourself does not hold any water. One can try to kill the body but it is the seeds that lead to incarnation.
Better rather to try to develop wisdom and compassion so that one may live as fruitful a life as possible.
Dogen says that nirvana is not separate from our practice. Perhaps he alludes to the mask of personality that hides nirvana from awareness.
allfoak
Alchemist
Enlightenment?
The point?
Not sure i understand the question?
It is kind of like asking, "why is the sun shining"?
Without light (enlightenment), we are forever in darkness.
Enlightenment is not something one looks for or attains, it is necessary, like the shining of the sun, or we forever live in darkness.
The point?
Not sure i understand the question?
It is kind of like asking, "why is the sun shining"?
Without light (enlightenment), we are forever in darkness.
Enlightenment is not something one looks for or attains, it is necessary, like the shining of the sun, or we forever live in darkness.
Yeshe Dondrub
Kagyupa OBT-Thubetan
Think of it as timeless awareness.
Also the desire to reach enlightenment, will inevitably prevent enlightenment, so that is also attachment.
Work with mind, let it come. You technically are already a Buddha, but the eye can't see it or look inward.
Also the desire to reach enlightenment, will inevitably prevent enlightenment, so that is also attachment.
Work with mind, let it come. You technically are already a Buddha, but the eye can't see it or look inward.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Yes, Nibbana corresponds to cessation of both craving ( tanha ) and dukkha ( suffering ). Or liberation from these.