Power Over or Power With?

[Quintessence]

Within magical traditions, we can identify two general approaches.

The first, which is the more common paradigm in Western occultism, is that magic represents power over the world around us. It is the practitioner forcing reality to conform to their will. Various magical components, and even gods, are expected to do the practitioner's bidding until they get what they want out of the universe. There's an implied hierarchical view of reality that underpins this approach to magic: the practitioner is the authority that commands others to obey.

The second, which is less common in Western occultism, is that magic represents power with the world around us. It is the practitioner working with the natural flows of the universe to find the desired path. Here magical components and gods are seen as partners, who may or may not cooperate with the practitioner's intent. There's an implied egalitarian view of reality here: the practitioner is on the same level as the world and must work with it to make change.

Combined approaches are possible, and it is probably uncommon to find a magical practitioner who is at one extreme or the other. Nevertheless, thinking about your approach to magic, is your approach more akin to "power over" or "power with?" Why do you take that approach to your craft? Could you tell us a bit about how that approach works for you?

 

[Iti oj]

with, its hard to act differently when you engage in animism in your magical path

 

[Quintessence]

with, its hard to act differently when you engage in animism in your magical path

That is true. What's interesting is that various works written by those who claim to have an animistic angle still tend to write about magical practice in a way that speaks to the "power over" paradigm. I noticed that in much of the literature I poked through years back, and I found that disparity very strange. I went "wait a sec... aren't I supposed to be considering the spirit of these things and not just using them as I see fit?"

 

[Iti oj]

That is true. What's interesting is that various works written by those who claim to have an animistic angle still tend to write about magical practice in a way that speaks to the "power over" paradigm. I noticed that in much of the literature I poked through years back, and I found that disparity very strange. I went "wait a sec... aren't I supposed to be considering the spirit of these things and not just using them as I see fit?"

ethnocentrism strikes every where. i have seen pagan books treat the gods the same way.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Within magical traditions, we can identify two general approaches.

The first, which is the more common paradigm in Western occultism, is that magic represents power over the world around us. It is the practitioner forcing reality to conform to their will. Various magical components, and even gods, are expected to do the practitioner's bidding until they get what they want out of the universe. There's an implied hierarchical view of reality that underpins this approach to magic: the practitioner is the authority that commands others to obey.

The second, which is less common in Western occultism, is that magic represents power with the world around us. It is the practitioner working with the natural flows of the universe to find the desired path. Here magical components and gods are seen as partners, who may or may not cooperate with the practitioner's intent. There's an implied egalitarian view of reality here: the practitioner is on the same level as the world and must work with it to make change.

Combined approaches are possible, and it is probably uncommon to find a magical practitioner who is at one extreme or the other. Nevertheless, thinking about your approach to magic, is your approach more akin to "power over" or "power with?" Why do you take that approach to your craft? Could you tell us a bit about how that approach works for you?

I never really thought of it as "power over" until I started reading different perspetives on the internet. When you do magic from a holistic approach, which is basically folk healing, protection, ritual, etc rather than color candles and pentacles, then you know you are working with the earth rather than trying to control it.

I mean, I wanted to be a magician when I was a kid. Control other's perspectives of reality with tricks of illusion. As for the actual real-life spiritual practice, magic is cool and all. In a spiritual view, I find it direspectful to try to have "power over" things using magic when we work and live with the earth not try to place ourselves over it.

I don't care for superiority in spirituality.

 

[Sees]

I'm of the combined approach and think it pretty much has to be like that - but more so the Power With.

 

[Erebus]

It's a difficult question, partly because I'm not convinced the "power over" approach is actually separate from the "power with" approach. If we use magic to try and take what we desire or to in some way assert dominance over another, all we're doing is adopting the role of predator. This is no different to a lion running down its prey or ants farming aphids. This predatory role is entirely consistent with the natural "flow" so to speak. Even taking this to extremes, to attempt apotheosis, is to work within the natural order in my view.

Perhaps then the key difference is in perspective? Since I view the "power over" approach as effectively being a subset of the "power with" approach, I guess I'll have to say that I go for "power with" myself.