polygamy

[idea]

OK - I thought I would put one more post on here, just to stir things up a bit. On the new Mormon.org profile page, one of the questions is "Do Mormons practice polygamy?" This was my answer. I'm still waiting to see if they accept it or not . It would be cool if they posted it, but my guess is they prob won't.

Let me first start out by saying that Mormons do not currently practice polygamy. Anyone who is currently practicing polygamy is in no way associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That said, I think it merits some discussion of why polygamy may have been practiced in the past.

Patricia T. Holland wrote a wonderful article entitled “ ‘One Thing Needful’: Becoming Women of Greater Faith in Christ,” in the Oct 1987 Ensign. I would like to share a few paragraphs from this article because to share only a few sentences would not do it justice. In this article, Sr. Holland writes:


“I have heard it said by some that the reason women in the Church struggle to know themselves is because they don’t have a divine female role model. But we do. We believe we have a mother in heaven. May I quote from President Spencer W. Kimball in a general conference address:
“When we sing that doctrinal hymn … ‘O My Father,’ we get a sense of the ultimate in maternal modesty, of the restrained, queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here, do we suppose her influence on us as individuals to be less?” (Ensign, May 1978, p. 6.)

I have never questioned why our mother in heaven seems veiled to us, for I believe the Lord has his reasons for revealing as little as he has on that subject. Furthermore, I believe we know much more about our eternal nature than we think we do; and it is our sacred obligation to express our knowledge, to teach it to our young sisters and daughters, and in so doing to strengthen their faith and help them through the counterfeit confusions of these difficult latter days. Let me point out some examples.
The Lord has not placed us in this lone and dreary world without a blueprint for living. In Doctrine and Covenants 52, we read the Lord’s words: “I will give unto you a pattern in all things, that ye may not be deceived.” (D&C 52:14; italics added.) He certainly includes us women in that promise. He has given us patterns in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price; and he has given us patterns in the temple ceremony. As we study these patterns, we must continually ask, “Why does the Lord choose to say these particular words and present it in just this way?” We know he uses metaphors and symbols and parables and allegories to teach us of his eternal ways. We have all recognized the relationship between Abraham and Isaac that so parallels God’s anguish over the sacrifice of his son, Jesus Christ. But, as women, do we stretch ourselves and also ask about Sarah’s travail in this experience as well? We need to search in this manner, and we need always to look for deeper meaning. We should look for parallels and symbols. We should look for themes and motifs such as those we would find in a Bach or a Mozart composition, and we should look for repeated patterns.”


The above was from sister Holland, the following comments are from me. Before I go farther, let me make it perfectly clear that what follows is not official church doctrine, but rather the thoughts of an imperfect member of the church, and should therefore be taken with a grain of salt.
All women in the this church at one point or another walk down the road of Sarah, Rachal, Rebekah, and the many others who were called to give a great sacrifice that they might raise up seed unto the Lord. We no longer walk down those roads in practice, but we surely walk down those roads in thought, and ponder upon what arrangements will be presented to us beyond the veil.

In Doctrine and Covenants section 132:65 Celestial marriage is referred to as the “law of Sarah” because Sarah was the first example that we have of this principle. Sarah and Abraham were both called upon to make a great sacrifice, and both Sarah and Abraham were let off at the last minute without actually having to go through with it. We all know of the great test in which Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac. Human sacrifice is a horrific pagan act which brought the wrath of God upon all who practiced it. Jeremiah 32:35 is one of the many places Heavenly Father reprimands those who sacrifice their children as burnt offerings. In Jeremiah 32:35 the Lord says “I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination.” Why was Abraham commanded to perform the abomination of sacrificing his beloved son Isaac? Those who have read the New Testament, a book Abraham was not able to read, know that Isaac was in similitude of the only begotten, Jesus Christ. A ram was provided for Abraham, but not for our Heavenly Father. Our Heavenly Father had to actually allow the atonement to happen.

cont...

 

[idea]

cont.

In getting back to Sarah let me make it clear that I don’t want to put words into Sr. Holland’s mouth, or assume things that I should not. For me personally it follows that if Abraham and Isaac are in similitude of Heavenly Father and Jesus, then might not Sarah be in similitude of our Heavenly Mother? What does this have to do with the law of Sarah you might ask? When the angel Gabriel came to Mary, Mary responded “Behold the handmaid of the Lord”- Luke 1:38. Sarah used a handmaid too. Like Abraham, Sarah was let off at the last minute. She was able to bear Isaac in her old age, and so she did have to make the ultimate sacrifice. In the case of our Heavenly Parents though, we are told that Jesus was born to a handmaid, the virgin Mary. The atonement would have been impossible if Jesus was not half mortal. Mary was a virgin, there is nothing adulterous or unholy about Mary’s relationship with God. Mary is one of the most beloved of all the women in the scriptures because of the role she played. She is celebrated for her role as a handmaid, not condemned for it.

All of us are children of Heavenly Parents. Jesus is Their only begotten child, but all of us are their spiritual children. We can all become spiritually begotten children through the waters of baptism (Mosiah 5:7). Handmaids are needed to raise up seed unto the lord. Are not all the women on Earth handmaids helping to raise up the children of Heavenly Parents? Baptism is a birth for those who are old enough to make an informed choice. Our Heavenly Parents will not force themselves on anyone. They wait patiently for children to grow old enough to be able to choose them. Earthly parents/handmaids seem to be the way through which all of us can be born and grow to the point were we have the mental capacity to understand and choose Heavenly Parents.

Galations 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath children...
Gen 21:6 And Sarah said, God hath made me to rejoice, so that all that hear will rejoice with me.

Doctrine and Covenants 132: 56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice.

In the final paragraphs of her article, Sr. Holland writes “As I tenderly acknowledge the very real pain that many single women, or married women who have not borne children, feel about any discussion of motherhood, could we consider this one possibility about our eternal female identity—our unity in our diversity? Eve was given the identity of “the mother of all living”—years, decades, perhaps centuries before she ever bore a child. It would appear that her motherhood preceded her maternity, just as surely as the perfection of the Garden preceded the struggles of mortality. I believe mother is one of those very carefully chosen words, one of those rich words—with meaning after meaning after meaning.”

Motherhood is not created through bearing children, it is created through raising them up. Once again, these are personal thoughts and do not represent the official doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I believe that there is a divine reason and purpose behind all God asks us to do. In those areas in which we do not fully understand, if we have the faith to trust God, we will be rewarded without measure.

… And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land. – DC 133:29 / Isa 35:7

PS - the pattern:
(Topical Guide | BBarren, Barrenness:Entry)
Barren, Barrenness
Gen. 11:30 Sarai was b.
Gen. 25:21 Isaac intreated the Lord for his wife, because she was b.
Gen. 29:31 Rachel was b.
Ex. 23:26 There shall nothing ... be b., in the land
Deut. 7:14 not be male or female b.
Judg. 13:3 thou art b.
1 Sam. 1:2 Hannah had no children
1 Sam. 2:5 the b. hath born seven
2 Kgs. 2:21 there shall not be ... b. land
Ps. 113:9 b. woman ... to be a joyful mother
Isa. 54:1 Sing, O b., thou that didst not bear
Luke 1:7 they had no child, because that Elisabeth was b.
Luke 23:29 Blessed are the b.
Gal. 4:27 Rejoice, thou b. that bearest not
2 Pet. 1:8 neither be b. ... in the knowledge of our Lord
Alma 32:39 because your ground is b. ... ye cannot have the fruit thereof
D&C 133:29 in the b. deserts there shall come forth pools
Moses 7:8 b. thereof shall go forth
See also Gen. 30:23; Luke 1:25.

Just about every female character we run across in the Bible is/starts out/ barren.. why? what is this supposed to tell us?

Eve was barren in Eden. She was unable to bear children in her perfect form. Perhaps HM is also unable to bear children in Her perfect form? Jesus the "only" begotten, begotten to a "handmiad" seems to suggest such. Babies can't choose their parents - it's a sin, or at least a transgression, to get someone into soemthing they have no experience in... I think that is why only fallen beings can beget children... JMO.

 

[idea]

they posted my ans . It took awhile, but they finally posted it!

Hi, I'm Jamie Lyn | Mormon.org
scroll down.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Let me first start out by saying that Mormons do not currently practice polygamy. Anyone who is currently practicing polygamy is in no way associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

I hope you don't mind me asking this, but you touched on something I've wondered about: is this strictly true?

I know that the LDS Church prohibits a man from being married to more than one living woman at a time, but doesn't it allow a widow who had a celestial marriage with his deceased wife to enter into another celestial marriage with another woman? Doesn't the LDS Church teach that both marriages will be eternal in Heaven?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the Church allows polygamy, just not on Earth?

 

[zomg]

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the Church allows polygamy, just not on Earth?

Bingo.

 

[Katzpur]

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the Church allows polygamy, just not on Earth?

It's an "eternal principle" that is not currently being practiced.

 

[Adramelek]

I am not ashamed to admit that I do find the old Mormon "Principle of Plural Marriage" to be very interesting. If one feels called to practice the "eternal principle" I think they should have the right to do so. But that's just me. Then again, maybe I've been watching too many episodes of "Big Love".

 

[Katzpur]

I am not ashamed to admit that I do find the old Mormon "Principle of Plural Marriage" to be very interesting. If one feels called to practice the "eternal principle" I think they should have the right to do so. But that's just me. Then again, maybe I've been watching too many episodes of "Big Love".

Well, if you were LDS and "felt called" to take a second wife, you would promptly be excommunicated. Even back when it was an accepted practice within the Church, only about 5% of all men had more than one wife and a man had to have the approval of Church leadership. Actually, it was often at the Church leadership's request that a man took a second wife.

About "Big Love," any idea when the next season starts?

 

[KeithCristian]

That's owe of the falsehoods the church does not talk about to investigators. They still beleive in polygamy. They have not gotten rid of it, just pushed it off
to the next life.

Let me first start out by saying that Mormons do not currently practice polygamy.

Currently? Sounds like they are saying polygamy is currently in neutral gear but will be moving forward, practiced again on earth, some time soon.

 

[TashaN]

idea, your long answer might be more suitable for your fellow Christians, but for me i would be ok with a yes or no answer without having to justify.

If the US government allow polygamy, would the LDS Church practice it normally?

Any LDS member is ofcourse free to answer too.

Thank you.

 

[Katzpur]

That's owe of the falsehoods the church does not talk about to investigators.

When you were an investigator, Keith, did you ask the missionaries who were teaching you about plural marriage? Unless you did, and unless they lied to you, your comment is the falsehood here. There is no way on earth that the missionaries could possibly teach prospective converts every single solitary doctrine of the Church before they were baptized. That's why we continue to learn and study throughout our lives. In Sunday School today, I learned several things about Priesthood organization that I never knew before, and I've been a practicing member of the Church all my life. It did not even occur to me to think I'd been lied to for 61 years. If a prospective member were to ask a missionary about plural marriage, he or she would get a straight answer. It's not one of the first principles discussed because there are many, many more critical things a person needs to understand about the gospel.

They still beleive in polygamy. They have not gotten rid of it, just pushed it off to the next life.

Of course they still believe in the principle of polygamy. It's an eternal principle as described in the Doctrine & Covenants. If it is eternal, it may likely be practiced by a few individuals in the next life. Nobody is denying that.

Currently? Sounds like they are saying polygamy is currently in neutral gear but will be moving forward, practiced again on earth, some time soon.

Really? What makes you think that it will be "practiced again on earth, sometime soon"? None of our General Authorities have ever implied that. As a matter of fact, it is highly unlikely that it will ever touch the lives of 99% or more of the Latter-day Saints -- either in this life or the next.

 

[Katzpur]

If the US government allow polygamy, would the LDS Church practice it normally?

Even if the government were to allow polygamy, it would not be reinstituted in the Church again unless the President of the Church and the Twelve Apostles were to receive a revelation from God both sanctioning it and commanding it. It is highly unlikely that this would happen.

 

[idea]

I hope you don't mind me asking this, but you touched on something I've wondered about: is this strictly true?

I know that the LDS Church prohibits a man from being married to more than one living woman at a time, but doesn't it allow a widow who had a celestial marriage with his deceased wife to enter into another celestial marriage with another woman? Doesn't the LDS Church teach that both marriages will be eternal in Heaven?

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the Church allows polygamy, just not on Earth?

sorry, should have said it's not practiced in this life at this time.

 

[idea]

idea, your long answer might be more suitable for your fellow Christians, but for me i would be ok with a yes or no answer ....

The short answer imo is:
Polygamy is symbolic of Mary, not Heavenly Mother, bearing Jesus.

(New Testament | Luke1:38)
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.

Handmaids are what you call second wives in polygamy. Jesus had to be 1/2 mortal - so he had to have a mortal mother. I was surprised that Mormon.org let me publish that, it is just my opinion though. Just my opinion,

like Abraham sacrificing Isaac - once you know why, it's a whole different thing.

 

[Adramelek]

Ok, first of all I am a LHPather and will always be. However, I do find some of the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ and Later-Day Saints rather intruiging. I use to debate my LHP beliefs and the beliefs of the Mormon Church with one of my housekeepers back in the early 1990's. We had some very interesting discussions and she gave me a copy of the "Book of Mormon" which I will admit I did find much more interesting than the King James version of the "New Testament".

Don't get me wrong here, I am an Eternal Setian, however, I do respect, out of all other white light religions, the LDS church. Don't ask me why, because I don't know.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Thanks Adramelek. I will have to head over to your DIR to find out more about your beliefs. If you can be respectful and intrigued by my beliefs, I bet I can learn a lot from your own beliefs. I have to admit. LHP scares me. I guess I shouldn't assume anything.

 

[KeithCristian]

The short answer imo is:
Polygamy is symbolic of Mary, not Heavenly Mother, bearing Jesus.

(New Testament | Luke1:38)
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.

Handmaids are what you call second wives in polygamy. Jesus had to be 1/2 mortal - so he had to have a mortal mother. I was surprised that Mormon.org let me publish that, it is just my opinion though. Just my opinion,

Your are saying Jesus was married with wives?

 

[Father Heathen]

If Mormons wanted to practice polygamy they would have my support (assuming it doesn't involve minors or forced marriages, of course.)

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

If Mormons wanted to practice polygamy they would have my support (assuming it doesn't involve minors or forced marriages, of course.)

I'm with you. Even though the Mormon Church does not allow polygamy, I think people who believe in it should be free to practice it (like the FLDS Church for example). I think this would allow such organizations to open up and come into the light. This would make it a lot easier to prevent things like abuse and underage marriages.

 

[Sola'lor]

Well I haven't been on this forum for a while. But while I've been gone I have been developing spiritually. One of the things that have changed is that I have gained a testimony of Plural Marriage. I do believe that it will be restored before the Second Coming and I do believe that I need to prepare myself and my family to practice it.

I believe the words of the early Church Leaders and I believe that it is because of our wickedness that we do not practice it today. Plural Marriage is a higher law and God said through revelation that he could never take that law away.

It really hurts me to see the church make so many negative comments about this sacred practice.