Pentacostal Worship

[Katzpur]

While I was in New York City this past weekend, I attended a church service in Harlem. It was called the Kelly Temple Church of God in Christ. The tour guide described it as essentially a Pentacostal church. I have some questions for Dawny or anyone else who might be able to give me some information.

The tour guide said that it was a "temple," because they had a bishop instead of a pastor. What did she mean by this?

There were three women who stood throughout the service near the front of the chapel, off to one side. They appeared to be dressed as nurses, but on their hats, it said "Deaconess." What exactly would their role have been in the Church?

 

[CK7]

Hi, I'm from a branch of Pentecostal belief. (The Assemblies of God) I can't say I'm an expert on that particular branch, but I know most Pentecostal Churches believe basically the same way. If I understood your question write, you were asking about the position of deacon, or deaconess. I know that in most Churches the position of deacon is usually given to men, but is also taken on by women in some Church. In the Branch of Pentecost I'm in (my dad's a pastor)deacons are basically the assistants to the pastor, or bishop. However we do not separate a Church and a Temple like some. We believe that where ever God's people gather is more than qualified. I know that was a lot of words for a little info, I hope it helps you.

 

[James the Persian]

I have a some different questions about Pentecostal churches but I can't see that they require a seperate thread so I hope it's OK to ask them here.

I'm only familiar with the Pentecostal church in northern Romania. I'm afraid that I have no idea which branch they are a part of, though I do know that they were evangelised by some Americans. Their church in my wife's home town is simply called Pentecostal with no other name that I'm aware of.

They appear to be an extremely strict group of people. The women wear headscarfs at all times and never wear short dresses. This is, however, also normal amongst older Orthodox Romanians so it may be more of a cultural thing. They also, however, do not drink coffee, smoke or drink alcohol. They never use any form of contraception and as a result tend to have very large families. There also seems to be a great emphasis on different roles for men and women in that almost all the women in the group seem to be stay at home housewives. I know of hardly any that actually have jobs. Is this usual for Pentecostals or unusual?

I was a guest at a Pentecostal wedding in the area. Whilst it was very odd to me, being outside and seemingly consisting of nothing more than the couple sitting side by side and listening to a number of different preachers, it didn't actually have any of the worship in the Spirit sort of occurrences that seem to be the characterising feature of Pentecostal worship. Is this just because it was a wedding or is it a peculiarity of that particular community? I've never actually been to a normal church service to see what that was like.

I'm just curious as to how representative my experience of Pentecostals in Romania is of the movement overall. Thanks in advance for your answers.

James

 

[Melody]

James,
My sister attends a Pentecostal church (Assembly of God) and there are no such conservative restrictions on them. Based on her explanation, Pentecostals believe in speaking in tongues, faith healing, excorcism and some even in snake handling although this varies with the church. Some Pentecostal churches will go so far as to say that if you do not speak in tongues then you really haven't been saved since that is the evidence of being "baptised in the fire."

Assembly of God is probably one of the largest and more well known (and they don't do snakes as far as I know). Here's a link if you want to know more about their beliefs.

 

[dawny0826]

As a Pentecostal...let me tell you...our church is incredibly informal.

We have a Pastor, two Youth Pastors and deacons are both male and female and we rarely have more than two working at a time because we have such a small congregation. Deacons usher, if necessary and pass the offering plates.

If you were to peek in on one of our Sunday services...you'd probably be surprised at how much we look like other Protestant Christians. We wear our Sunday best...no formalities throughout the service...free worship. Our services are structured to the extent where we do certain things in order every Sunday...praise and worship and prayer come first...and then announcements and offerings...then the offering prayer...and then the sermon...and as with many Protestant churches...there is normally an invitational at the end of the service...where we're invited to the alter for prayer...for the laying on of hands for healing, spiritually or physical and are prayed for and counseled if one accepts Christ as their Saviour.

In many ways, our services can be compared to a Baptist service, only we do tend to be a bit more expressive with our worship...some members choose to speak in tongues...some choose to praise openly throughout the service and some of course...choose only to pray quietly and take it all in.

No formalities in that regard...we're free to worship as we feel driven...without nasty looks and eye rolls.

I'm thinking your tour guide had Pentecostals confused with Presbyterians. I could be wrong, of course...but our Pentecostal church isn't as he described.

Hope this helps.

 

[dawny0826]

Pentecostals do not believe that one HAS to speak in tongues. And few churches handle snakes.

We do believe in faith healing because we embrace the NT of the Bible full gospel and Christ told us that we would not only do HIS works but GREATER works.

Weeks can go by and you may not witness a single person speaking in tongues. Pentecostals don't even believe that you HAVE to speak in tongues or praise loudly.

We simply worship in an environment where we're able to worship without the limitations that I've always felt exist in other Christian denominations.

Most of our services...I can totally compare to the services my Grandmother listens to her in her Baptist church and the services that my mother listens to in her Lutheran church. The only difference, inmo, is that a freedom exists where one can express their love for Christ freely without feeling like others are judging them.

 

[Katzpur]

As a Pentecostal...let me tell you...our church is incredibly informal.

We have a Pastor, two Youth Pastors and deacons are both male and female and we rarely have more than two working at a time because we have such a small congregation. Deacons usher, if necessary and pass the offering plates.

If you were to peek in on one of our Sunday services...you'd probably be surprised at how much we look like other Protestant Christians. We wear our Sunday best...no formalities throughout the service...free worship. Our services are structured to the extent where we do certain things in order every Sunday...praise and worship and prayer come first...and then announcements and offerings...then the offering prayer...and then the sermon...and as with many Protestant churches...there is normally an invitational at the end of the service...where we're invited to the alter for prayer...for the laying on of hands for healing, spiritually or physical and are prayed for and counseled if one accepts Christ as their Saviour.

In many ways, our services can be compared to a Baptist service, only we do tend to be a bit more expressive with our worship...some members choose to speak in tongues...some choose to praise openly throughout the service and some of course...choose only to pray quietly and take it all in.

No formalities in that regard...we're free to worship as we feel driven...without nasty looks and eye rolls.

I'm thinking your tour guide had Pentecostals confused with Presbyterians. I could be wrong, of course...but our Pentecostal church isn't as he described.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Dawny. I was really hoping you'd respond. There is no way the church service I attended could be described as Presbyterian, but I suppose there is probably some differences between various Pentacostal denominations. I asked our tour guide what denomination it was and she said that it would come closer to being Pentacostal than anything else. She used the acronym "COGIC" and said it stood for Church of God in Christ. Also, I got the definite impression that it was the church our tour guide attends herself. It was almost exclusively a Black church, which may account for some of the differences. The tour only permitted us to stay for the praise and worship portion of the service, but it was very much as you have described it. I'd have to say that it was just about as different from an LDS worship service as you could find. We tend to be very subdued and reverent in our worship. This service included lots of very loud singing, swaying back and forth, hands raised in the air, etc. A couple of people even had tambourines. I'll say one thing for them: They were clearly very happy to be in church. I admired their enthusiasm and energy and I felt very, very welcome.

 

[joeboonda]

I attended a pentecostal holiness church for a brief time because I enjoyed the worship and music, but I did not agree with all their doctrine so I am not pentecostal. I am Christian and accept my pentecostal and charismatic brothers and sisters as Christian brothers and sisters because we do agree on the essentials of the faith of Christ although we differ about some nonessentials. I won't go into a debate about all that though, its just my beliefs from my studies of scripture, etc.

 

[dawny0826]

The only "doctrine" that we follow is the Word of God.

 

[joeboonda]

I know that, I know you are wonderful good Christians and believe in the Bible as your sole authority, as do I. We differ on some very very minor things, so minor I would not want to even have one tiny bit of argument over. Someday in a Christian only place, I might, might, discuss it some, but I love my pentecostal brothers and sisters, and I can easily agree to disagree on some very very very very very minor points.

 

[dawny0826]

Thanks, Dawny. I was really hoping you'd respond. There is no way the church service I attended could be described as Presbyterian, but I suppose there is probably some differences between various Pentacostal denominations. I asked our tour guide what denomination it was and she said that it would come closer to being Pentacostal than anything else. She used the acronym "COGIC" and said it stood for Church of God in Christ. Also, I got the definite impression that it was the church our tour guide attends herself. It was almost exclusively a Black church, which may account for some of the differences. The tour only permitted us to stay for the praise and worship portion of the service, but it was very much as you have described it. I'd have to say that it was just about as different from an LDS worship service as you could find. We tend to be very subdued and reverent in our worship. This service included lots of very loud singing, swaying back and forth, hands raised in the air, etc. A couple of people even had tambourines. I'll say one thing for them: They were clearly very happy to be in church. I admired their enthusiasm and energy and I felt very, very welcome.

I'm glad it was a good experience for you. And as you've stated, I'm sure it's very possible that not all Pentecostal churches are the same.

I know I've stated this many times but my Grandmother is a devout Baptist. My mother is Lutheran but has not withdrawn her membership at my Grandmother's church...so my mother is technically BOTH Baptist and Lutheran and my church doesn't advertise itself as being of any particular religious denomination. I go to Living Word Family Church...we are a Full Gospel church but if you were to label us...we fall underneath a Pentecostal "category" and I'm not ashamed to consider myself Pentecostal.

Anyway...my Mother, Grandmother and myself...we can visit each other's churches and do with no problems. The differences between the three are minimal. The message of Christ is identical.

And from what I've witnessed...Pentecostals are full energy and this is why I've chosen this for myself...there's this awesome liberation to worship with my whole heart...without limitation.

And...I feel no guilt whatsoever if I decide to take communion at my mother's church on any given Sunday or go to a Sunday night service at my Grandmother's church. In fact, I'll be enrolling my daughter in a Baptist Vacation Bible School this summer as well as a Lutheran Vacation Bible School, as long as they don't fall on the same week.

I know this is off topic...I guess I just want to emphasize that Pentecostals really aren't much different from other Protestants and sometimes I get a raised eyebrow when I mention that I'm Pentecostal.

 

[mr.guy]

As a Pentecostal...let me tell you...our church is incredibly informal.

That was gonna be my summation; i've only been to a pentacostal service once, but next to the anglican/protestant services i've attended it lacked much of the ceremony and affectation one generally acossiates with a christian service.

Having said that, i've friends who've involved themselves in far more flamboyant congregations. How it's been explained to me is that it's not uncommon for pentacostles to "shop around" for services and clergy they find most relevant and suiting to their theological needs.

 

[dawny0826]

That was gonna be my summation; i've only been to a pentacostal service once, but next to the anglican/protestant services i've attended it lacked much of the ceremony and affectation one generally acossiates with a christian service.

Having said that, i've friends who've involved themselves in far more flamboyant congregations. How it's been explained to me is that it's not uncommon for pentacostles to "shop around" for services and clergy they find most relevant and suiting to their theological needs.

I think I'm just flighty by nature, to be honest. And I can agree with the "shop around" concept to a degree. To me, that's the appeal...the liberation...no strict formalities. I'm not bound to the church itself...I'm interested in obtaining spiritual growth in an atmosphere that I feel comfortable in and my definition of "comfort" can be different on any given Sunday.

 

[Harvster]

Reading these posts make me wonder how different the Pentecostal church in America is to Australia but i'll mention what i know about the reason why we worship the way we do (ie. Raising of hands).

Basically the Pentecostal church beleives praise should be as described in the bible. There are seven Hebrew words that define the way that we are to praise & Worship. 'Hallal' - celebrate & give glory, 'Yadah' - give thanks, 'Barak' - bend the knee, 'Tehillah' - song of Praise, 'Zamar' - make music, 'Towdah' - an extension of the hand (raising) & 'Shabach' - To Shout. All of these are shown in the Pentecostal church in one way or another.

Off topic slightly but ill put it here anyways. My church is Assemblies of God and we have ushers and stewards who hand out communion and offering (large Church), along with numerous Pastors each given a specific role. For example we have a senior pastor, assosiate, youth, worship, missions, seniors etc. http://www.southside.org.au/

Katzpur i have to wonder what you would feel like in the church that i go to as we use more than tamborines. We have drums, gutairs (electric), bass, keyboards, sometimes brass and a chior.

James i have no idea what the Romanian church is about but it sounds as though they are very legalistic which is something most Pentecostal churches got out of in the mid 1900s, there are some that still run this way but it is rare. In the early 1900s Australian Penticostal churches were very strict forbiding anyone to go to cinemas, smoke, dance, drink alcohol and they even said it was wrong for women to wear trousers (taken from Leviticus i think). My Grandfather who was a pastor never allowed my grandmother to wear pants until she died in 1993 and believed so even when he died in 1999. My family still beleive that going to the cinemas is wrong and in fact i have never been.

 

[mr.guy]

I think I'm just flighty by nature, to be honest. And I can agree with the "shop around" concept to a degree. To me, that's the appeal...the liberation...no strict formalities. I'm not bound to the church itself...I'm interested in obtaining spiritual growth in an atmosphere that I feel comfortable in and my definition of "comfort" can be different on any given Sunday.

Just to be clear, i didn't mean to make a "shopping" analogy to insinuate whimsy or fracture (just in case there was some doubt to my summation).

The impression i've gotten is that there's an expectation among pentacostals that they will need to practice, or reach their spiritual goals and understandings by different interfaces. Comfortable ones, as you say.

I've also viewed (be i so bold to expand on your behalf) certain stimulation to be a critical component regarding choice. It seems they recognize a value in such varied means and methods, therby commonly (i presume) view these as no more than weekly "introductions" to their faith and worship, or "primers" to a spiritual ecstasy/understanding.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur i have to wonder what you would feel like in the church that i go to as we use more than tamborines. We have drums, gutairs (electric), bass, keyboards, sometimes brass and a chior.

Well, it would undoubtedly be a new experience for me, just as attending my church would be different and unusual for you. I'll say one thing for the tamborines, etc... It would be very difficult dozing off in church with all that loud music going on. As I said before, I personally prefer a more quiet, reverent feeling in church, but if your form of worship works for you, I certainly am not in a position to tell you it's wrong or anything like that.

In the early 1900s Australian Penticostal churches were very strict forbiding anyone to go to cinemas, smoke, dance, drink alcohol and they even said it was wrong for women to wear trousers (taken from Leviticus i think). My Grandfather who was a pastor never allowed my grandmother to wear pants until she died in 1993 and believed so even when he died in 1999. My family still beleive that going to the cinemas is wrong and in fact i have never been.

Wow! And I thought Mormons were strict! We aren't supposed to smoke or drink, and you almost never see an LDS woman in Church wearing pants. We're also encouraged to stick to only clean and uplifting entertainment, but are permitted to go to movies and dances. What, may I ask, is the reasoning behind the belief that movies are to be avoided?

 

[Harvster]

Wow! And I thought Mormons were strict! We aren't supposed to smoke or drink, and you almost never see an LDS woman in Church wearing pants. We're also encouraged to stick to only clean and uplifting entertainment, but are permitted to go to movies and dances. What, may I ask, is the reasoning behind the belief that movies are to be avoided?

Most of the legalistic views like not going to the cinemas came from the scripture where it says to be in the world not of the world (think thats right). Obviously it was taken waaay to far. The cinemas back then were considered a "wordly" thing and along with this came the reasoning that you pay for more of the movies to be produced that have sex, violence etc. Dancing was forbidden because you would dance with another person other than your wife and it was assumed that this could lead to a relationship as dancing was very interment.

It wasn't just the Pentecostal church that was like this however, my Grandmother who was originally methodist was asked in church to take of her wedding ring as jewellery was wrong. Obviously she refused and left the church.

It is unfortunate to say that the church has gone too far in the opposite direction and the standards have reduced dramatically where everything is accepted. The AOGs (in Australia) constitution has been altered to get rid of things like drinking alcohol etc is wrong, much to the disgust of older pastors who still believe that these things are wrong.

It would be very difficult dozing off in church with all that loud music going on.

Don't worry some people still find time in the sermons:biglaugh:

 

[James the Persian]

James i have no idea what the Romanian church is about but it sounds as though they are very legalistic which is something most Pentecostal churches got out of in the mid 1900s, there are some that still run this way but it is rare. In the early 1900s Australian Penticostal churches were very strict forbiding anyone to go to cinemas, smoke, dance, drink alcohol and they even said it was wrong for women to wear trousers (taken from Leviticus i think). My Grandfather who was a pastor never allowed my grandmother to wear pants until she died in 1993 and believed so even when he died in 1999. My family still beleive that going to the cinemas is wrong and in fact i have never been.

That sounds exactly like them! Did your grandmother also have to keep her head covered? That's the only aspect of the church there that I think might be native rather than having come over from the US with the missionaries (because older Orthodox women do the same - my wife's never even seen her grandmother's hair!). Evidently there still is at least one Penetecostal church in America that has this old fashioned attitude and they've made inroads in northern Romania.

What about the weddings? Does that sound familiar to anyone? The thing that got me is that the couple didn't actually do anything. They just sat there and listened, no exchange of rings, no nothing. I mean our weddings are very different from western ones but my first Orthodox wedding (I was Protestant at the time) looked a lot less alien to me than this Pentecostal one did.

James

 

[Melody]

Pentecostals do not believe that one HAS to speak in tongues. And few churches handle snakes..

That's like saying all Christians believe Jesus was God in human form. They don't.

Do a search of the internet. You'll find many sites claiming to be Pentecostal and claiming that speaking in tongues is a sign that you have been truly saved and the spirit is indwelling.

 

[dawny0826]

That's like saying all Christians believe Jesus was God in human form. They don't.

Do a search of the internet. You'll find many sites claiming to be Pentecostal and claiming that speaking in tongues is a sign that you have been truly saved and the spirit is indwelling.

Forgive me.

SOME Pentecostals do not believe that one HAS to speak in tongues in order to be considered saved. And I don't know of ANY Pentecostal church in our area that handles snakes.

I'm not ignorant to how OTHER Pentecostal churches may handle things. I'm speaking from personal experience as I attend a Pentecostal church. I believe very much in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and I speak in tongues but I (and the members of my church) don't believe that speaking in tongues is the ONLY way of knowing that one is saved.

My choice of wording was poor and I apologize for that.

I can attest however, that not all Pentecostals push "tongues" and "snakes" upon people and am often times reluctant to announce that I'm Pentecostal because people make assumptions about my religion without knowing or even asking what goes on behind our church doors.