Parapsychology vs Religion and Science

[Student of X]

Randi is sort of like the first line of defense for the skeptic. I understand why, but on closer examination he is a weak defense. I've already supplied links about him, which I hope Randi fans will read closely. I've supplied more than enough to give anyone reason to be skeptical of him. And here is more:

James Randi is a conjurer (the “Amazing Randi&#8221 and showman who is described on his web site as “the world’s most tireless investigator and demystifier of paranormal and pseudo-scientific claims.” He used to be a leading figure in CSICOP, but had to resign because of litigation against him. Carl Sagan, in his sympathetic introduction to Randi’s book The Faith Healers (1987) described him as an “angry man.” His work as a debunker has attracted lavish funding and in 1986 he was the recipient of a $286,000 MacArthur Foundation Fellowship. In 1996 he established the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF). He has an ambiguous attitude to scientific authority, deferring to it when it supports his beliefs, but rejecting it when it does not.

On his web site he asserts: “Authority does not rest with scientists, when emotion, need and desperation are involved. Scientists are human beings, too, and can be deceived and self-deceived.” He is not afraid to attack scientists who take an interest in subjects like telepathy, like Brian Josephson, Professor of Physics at Cambridge University. In 2001, on a BBC Radio program about Josephson’s interest in possible connections between quantum physics and consciousness, Randi said, “I think it is the refuge of scoundrels in many aspects for them to turn to something like quantum physics.” Josephson has a Nobel Prize in quantum physics. Randi has no scientific credentials. Of his current work, he writes, “We at the JREF are skilled in two directions: we know how people are fooled by others and we know how people fool themselves. We deal with hard, basic facts.” Yet in a review of his book The Supernatural A-Z: The Truth and the Lies, his fellow skeptic Susan Blackmore commented that the book “has too many errors to be recommended.”

He has also been shown to invent "facts" and make up evidence, see Randi's dishonest claims. Fraud of this kind is unacceptable within the scientific community; but Randi is no scientist.

Randi’s stock in trade as a debunker is the offer of a million dollar “prize” for a demonstration of “any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability”. For details, see The Randi Prize . But as a leading Fellow of CSICOP, Ray Hyman, has pointed out, this "prize" cannot be taken seriously from a scientific point of view: "Scientists don't settle issues with a single test, so even if someone does win a big cash prize in a demonstration, this isn't going to convince anyone. Proof in science happens through replication, not through single experiments."

Randi’s fellow showman Loyd Auerbach, President of the Psychic Entertainers Association, is likewise sceptical about this “prize” and sees it as a stunt of no scientific value. See Randi’s Challenge

More on the Randi Prize... Why Randi may have to pay up
Beware Pseudo-Skepticism Sean of PsiPog finds out what the Randi Challenge is really about.

Randi's "evidence" revisited... A Skeptical look at James Randi

 

[Student of X]

Are there any religious people around here who feel that parapsychology, psychic ability is a tool of the devil..?

 

[Student of X]

At the rate evidence for psi is accumulating, it's only a matter of time before parapsychology is fully vindicated and disseminated throughout world science and culture. What will happen then? What will change?

Here are some thoughts along these lines, from :

(1992b) "Some Thoughts Inspired by the Essay Title: "How the Establishment's Acceptance of ESP and PK Would Influence Contemporary Science," Exceptional Human Experience, 10 (1), 16 - 22. Article written for A.S.P.R. Essay competition, Feb. 1988. Presented as "The Social Implications of Psi Phenomena," Lecture for the Soc. Psych. Res., Kensington, Feb. 1989.

"Psi, in itself, is a talent, a force, a power that can be used for good or evil, as it is so well exemplified in our mythical and fairy tale literature. Taking this theoretical assumption as potential fact, I would be downright scared if the present-day materialist establishment accepted ESP and PK. After all, look what they did with the discovery of atomic physics; they, together with the politicians, promptly turned it into the ever present threat of world destruction that has so profoundly affected every aspect of our lives ever since. I would not trust the present-day scientific and political establishment to put psi to good use because its major impetus in essence is life destructive. It is essential that the establishment scientists maintain their disinterest and disbelief until the whole worldview (i.e. a paradigm so pervasive that it is accepted by the whole society without question and without people even realizing it is a worldview) of our society has shifted to a more spiritually oriented philosophy that does not immediately seek to use every discovery to gain control over others, especially for purposes of warfare, such as remote viewing for spying or the dreaded "thought police" of science fiction.

I do in fact see this attitude beginning to change in the corridors of power and within the ivory towers, and this essay is written looking toward the positive. I hope it will help to create what I see as a possible future outcome of psi research, together with the whole shift in worldview that accompanies the deep level knowing and living from the "clairvoyant reality" (LeShan, 1974).

ASSUMPTIONS

There are two assumptions in the title: ESP and PK are valid phenomena and the scientific establishment influences contemporary society. I have recently come across some amusing examples that would seem to bear out the second assumption; however, as far as I can see, in most instances our society is influenced first and foremost by the media, and it is only the underlying worldview that is influenced by the academic establishment. This influence percolates through in various formats until eventually, with a time delay of several decades, it affects society. As far as acceptance of psi goes, it seems as though the academic community is totally out of synch with a large proportion of contemporary society, which is presently enthusiastically espousing all matter psychic and spiritual. There are hundreds of new spiritual groups, a new pagan resurgence, diverse occult societies, and dozens of growth therapies and personal development groups; trancing, channeling, crystal therapies, healing groups, rebirthing, Reiki, EST, and all the other cults and movements of the past two decades far too numerous to mention.

From this point of view, it appears that the scientific establishment will be about the last to change, and so its influence in contemporary society is more in the way of confirmation of changes that have already happened, thus forming what was once new into the accepted and established, which then becomes the worldview. The establishment, by its very nature, has an inertial, restraining force on new ideas. It holds onto the old ways longest, but once it does incorporate new ideas, then they in turn are held onto tenaciously for a very long time.

It is necessary, therefore, in order to see what sort of influence the scientists of that time would have on society, to picture exactly what sort of establishment there would be that did accept psi. Not only the attitude toward psi would have changed. A whole lifestyle and the philosophy that engendered it would have changed as well, and if it had not, would not the planet be in very serious trouble?

THE EMERGING PHILOSOPHY: A POTENTIAL CHANGE IN WORLDVIEW

What is a society like that accepts psi as part and parcel of its being? In this essay we must disregard all the vast array of prior cultures as possible prototypes, because we now live in a global village as a result of our technological achievements, and so there is an ever increasing blending together of all the cultures within our planet. Psi within a society has a very different meaning when you can pick up a phone and talk to a friend on the other side of the world! Thus, the "new age" or "Aquarian" culture, which has grown up in our technologically advanced world, is probably the best indicator we have of a future psi-oriented society. The dissenters of one generation are the establishment of the next.

The first thing that strikes me about this subculture is that they use all the technology but firmly reject the materialist philosophy and value systems of the society that created the technology. They are highly spiritual in a non-religious sense; that is, there is a recognition and a respect for the spiritual aspect of life, but there is no clear form: each individual finds his or her own way through the plethora of spiritual teachings. People seem to be trying out various old systems, such as Buddhism, Paganism, Hinduism, Sufism, and they are blending them together into a mystical framework very akin to the "perennial philosophy" described by Huxley (1946, 1974). It seems that people are no longer looking to God to tell them what to do, or to help them when they are in trouble, or to punish them when they are naughty, or to forgive them, but are actually looking within themselves for all these things. They are finding the divinity within themselves and are becoming self-responsible. It is as though when humanity was very young, in the Neolithic and through the Bronze Ages, people looked to an all-beneficent Mother and worshiped Her, much as babies and toddlers idolize their mothers. As humanity grew up, needs changed and patriarchy emerged with people looking to a stern Father to discipline them and keep them on the right path. During the so-called Age of Reason, humanity, like all other adolescents, rebelled and rejected both Mother and Father. But now humanity is reaching the age of adulthood, and we must become both Father and Mother within ourselves. We must accept responsibility for the power of our very thoughts to create our own reality, which includes the gods. We must accept total responsibility for the care of our planet and all upon it, as did the Mother in matriarchal times, and we must discipline and guide, as did the Father in patriarchal times, both within ourselves and within society. We can no longer do wrong and look to a Father to forgive us and put it all right; we must shoulder the responsibility ourselves.

The philosophy is of necessity more abstract than that of religions of the past because an adult can work with a greater degree of abstraction than can children who need concrete examples (myths and parables) in order to understand what they are being told. Nor do adults need the bribery and blackmail implicit in the Christian teachings of fear of hell-fire or the rewards of heaven, as did adolescent humanity. Rather, we can now appreciate and work for the mutual good and benefit not only of our own selves but for that of the whole planet. This is no longer a selfish philosophy emphasizing enlightenment or heavenly reward of the individual: it is a collective philosophy concerned with the evolution of consciousness of humanity as a whole, but one by which each individual stands to gain.

This emerging philosophy sees the universe and all life as an interconnected whole, with every action and every thought affecting every part of the universe. This philosophy sees spirit in every aspect of life: water, earth, air and fire. The Fairy Faith of the Celtic peoples is in some way being renewed and, as Evans-Wentz (1911, 1977) pointed out, belief in psi is an integral part of that old faith - a faith that was very close to nature. This new philosophy sees our species as going through an evolutionary shift that is greater than each of us individually - a shift inspired and in some way generated Mother Nature (Planet Earth or Gaia are the latest fashionable words). Thus, at a practical level, this philosophy says that we are wholly part of the Universe (as in holography), and especially so of the planet, so we must learn to live in harmony with it. The realization that all is interwoven and interlinked must surely create a change in practical life attitudes, such as appreciating the need to recycle everything: no more trashcans, no more garbage dumps. Electricity from renewable sources together with energy conservation would lead to less acid rain, less nuclear waste and radioactive discharge. And an end must be put to the present debt-driven economy that is slowly murdering the planet because all countries are in debt and must over-produce in order to pay back the interest rates charged. At the individual level, for example, this forces farmers to use pesticides and fertilizers on their land in order to make sufficient profit to pay the banks, and in other ways, everyone who has some form of debt or loan is contributing to the overuse of the planets resources.

[...]

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[Student of X]

(continued)

"The United States is seen by most people as the worst offender in this respect, because it is the affluence of our American life-style that is crippling the rest of the world, particularly South and Central America. Under the emerging philosophy it is up to each individual to change their life-style in accord with the planets needs. There is a great emphasis on each individual living their belief every day at every moment, living a spiritual awareness of the interconnectedness of everything at every level. If the scientific establishment accepts the existence of psi, then they are going to be affected in some way by this holistic mystical philosophy because psi is a logical, necessary aspect of it. As Krippner (1982) has remarked, "if the brain is a hologram interpreting a holographic universe, ESP and PK are necessary components of that universe. Indeed, holographic theorists would have to hypothesize the existence of ESP and PK had not the parapsychologists carefully documented their existence over the years" (pp. 124-125).

THE NEW PHYSICS

Many of the aspects of the change in worldview that would accompany the scientific establishments acceptance of ESP and PK are already occurring in the "new physics". If Newton had not made his discoveries, the philosophy of the clockwork universe would never have been promulgated nor accepted so enthusiastically, though doubtless someone would have proposed it because it grew out of the spirit of the time. We have a similar evolution occurring in our time with quantum mechanics, which has taken 50 years to emerge from the laboratory into a position of influence in the way that people view the world. Books like the Tao of Physics (Capra, 1975) have deeply affected contemporary society, whatever the scientific establishment may think of them. The Holographic Paradigm (Wilber, 1982) and The Implicate Order (Bohm, 1980) offer a new worldview that is closely linked with the perennial philosophy held by mystics of all ages, at a time when there is very deep dissatisfaction with the old materialistic reductionist worldview. The journal Nature might consider Sheldrake's A New Science of Life a candidate for burning, but the people loved it.

All these new ideas from various scientists are being enthusiastically accepted by a wide range of people. If there had been no Einstein or no quantum physics, then this old/new philosophy could not have inspired and taken root in contemporary society in the same way. This is the way the scientific establishment influence society despite itself! There is obviously an enormous need for this new philosophy for it to have been so eagerly and rapidly absorbed and embraced by so many. In accepting psi there wouldn't be quite the radical shift that is being required in the change from a Newtonian to a Einsteinian world. In fact, this present shift is in many ways preparing the establishment for the acceptance of psi, and I feel that only when the "new physics" philosophy is well grounded will the psi worldview come into its own, for a psi worldview is essentially the same as that promulgated in The Holographic Paradigm and other books of a similar nature, of which there are so many at present.

THE CHANGING FACE OF THE OCCULT

In the process of the scientific establishment's coming acceptance of psi, many of the present fears connected with the occult, witchcraft in particular, have to be faced, for it is part of the history of the white race that profoundly affects our present attitudes. The trauma engendered throughout a whole continent by the horrors of the Inquisition and the so-called Witch Trials in which an estimated 9 million women were tortured and murdered, together with a small number of men, is still manifest today, and is probably the single most important factor behind present day skepticism towards psi - and also present-day parapsychologists unwillingness to be associated with occultism. We must not forget that the Roman Catholic Church, under penalty of excommunication, forbade the practice of any psychical arts, even healing, and the Church ruled over most of Europe for nearly 900 years, right up to the Protestant Refomation. Today we may laugh at the idea of excommunication, but in those times it was the equivalent of being a leper.

It is difficult to explain the extent to which the Inquisition still affects us today except by analogy such as the following. In the reign of William of Orange and Mary in Britain (1689-1702), a clan in Scotland called Campbell visited their neighbors, the Macdonalds, bearing a note form William of Orange stating that the Macdonalds should be punished for being tardy in accepting his authority over them. The Campbells did not act openly and were invited in by the Macdonalds as guests and were treated with all hospitality and courtesy. The next morning the Campbells blocked both ends of the pass of Glencoe and murdered every single Macdonald: men, women, children, and babies. The horror of this massacre still echoes today, and anyone named Campbell living in Scotland will bear witness to this. If such a small localized event can cause such ripples over the centuries, consider the effect of the sustained murders by the Inquisition and the Witch Trials over a whole continent for nearly three centuries. The Inquisition led directly to the Protestant movement and the intense hatred of Papists in Britain to the extent of importing a German monarch to rule the country rather than having the rightful heir who was a Catholic. The Witch Trials, which continued under the Protestants, initiated the folklore of the wicked witch or evil step-mother that exist today in our children's stories, and led later to a denial that psi even existed. It is very feasible that a large part of the "fear of psi" discussed by Tart (1984) is a relic of these times.

In my research of occultism, I found that occultism is a relic of various pre-Christian religions; esoteric Judaic, Egyptian, and Pagan European. In all these religions, psi plays a central role in one's interaction with spiritual reality, in whatever form it may be seen by that religion. There are good and bad groups involved with the occult, even as there are in every other aspect of life, and the good and responsible members of the occult groups and societies all seem to be promoting the positive aspects of the New Age philosophy outlined above. Surely, this can only be for the good of the planet, and therefore for all of us.

THE ENERGY-MATTER EQUATION

It occurred to me some years ago when I was trying to explain some aspects of the new physics to a lay audience, that Einsteins famous equation, E=MC2, can be seen as a symbol of the shift that is occurring from a materialistic worldview to a spiritual one. Since Newton the western world has focused almost exclusively on the matter side of the equation, on the material side of life, and now the shift toward focusing on the energy side of the equation is beginning and is reflected in the language of the young, as in such phrases as "good vibes". Thus, one can conceive of the spirit of a thing as being the energy aspect of that thing, which is directly related to its matter aspect but which has totally different laws governing its behavior, as is found in particle physics (e.g., the wave/particle aspect of light itself).

The energy engendered by emotion is probably the strongest energy of our body/minds, and with the emotional energy engendered by religious beliefs possibly the most powerful, for good or ill (as seen in the various religious wars around the world). When we start to concentrate our attention on the energy side of humanity, we start to concentrate on the spiritual aspect of life, an aspect that is so furiously denied by the materialists, who concentrate their attention solely on the matter side of the equation. Thus, establishment scientists' response to parapsychology is primarily an emotional one, though they may dress it up with logic and analysis, and they reject parapsychology for exactly the same reason that they reject the spiritual aspect of life. Those who advocate parapsychology also must recognize that there is an emotional component to their behavior, for if they work without heart then they are soulless machines, and no good will come of their work. We are dealing here with issues that encompass more than the rational or the purely intellectual. There is always an emotional component, however much it may be dressed up in impersonal terminology and logical rationalism. By asserting that there are psychic events occurring in our own and others' lives we open up a Pandora's box in which all the spiritual aspects of life were shut up and locked away during the "Age of Reason". This locking up of the spiritual aspect of life has led directly to the material problems confronting our generation.

The negative spiritual aspect of the mind has often been conceptualized as demonic, and we disregard demons at our peril, for they are reappearing as mass psychosis in our prisons and mental hospitals, which are overflowing with violent, aggressive, crazy people - mainly men. It is interesting to note that men have been the perpetrators of the worst horrors in the name of materialism. The people who are polluting the the air and the seas and threatening the whole planet with destruction must find their souls, their hearts, their spiritual beings. At present they appear to be soulless automatons, only heartless creatures could so destroy our beautiful planet.

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[Student of X]

(continued)

ETHICS AND MORALITY

"As I mentioned earlier, it is possible that part of the fear of the occult shown by so many parapsychologists is because the occult represent the remnants of various ancient persecuted religions. The religions emphasized the spiritual side of nature and life, and psi was used as a "spiritual technology." Without a rigorous ethics and morality this leads to a disgusting abuse of mental power. The blackest magicians of our present society are those who are destroying our planet in the name of progress and profit (in the past they were called greed and avarice). To acknowledge that energy is interchangeable with matter and that there is an energy aspect to be considered as well as a material one is to re-evaluate the whole of one's life, in much the same way as a new-age worldview leads to a re-evaluation.

When we add psi to this we have to ask questions such as "Do I pollute the world with negative thoughts, including the guilt trip for having negative thoughts?" For surely every thought one has has the potential for affecting everything else. And, "Am I aware of and in control of all my negative emotions?" for my negative emotions can play havoc with those around me, let alone the potential effect that they have on the general world atmosphere. In other words, we have to embrace what has always been called a religious or spiritual philosophy very akin to Buddhism.

If, in potential, I can astral travel in the true sense of the words, and thus can mentally link with any place in the universe, then I begin to realize the awesome potential of my mind and how careful I must be with my thoughts, because my thoughts not only link me with all of creation but can also materialize into physical reality. Then the Buddhist creed of "right thought" strikes home in a very dramatic and immediate manner. Full activation of our psi potential brings considerable responsibility and a dreadful need for a truly spiritual state of being: a realization of the divinity within each of us.

I have always seen parapsychology as the "earthing" of the spiritual. In our experiments we explore the psychic in a very logical, rational, exoteric manner. We assign clearly demonstrable proof ratings to the different variables. In such a manner we have inadvertently confirmed many spiritual teachings, for example that one's attitude or belief about something may actually affect the occurrence of that particular matter. Faith, it used to be called, although now it is "the sheep-goat effect," was said to be able to move mountains. Jesus spoke quite extensively on the incredible effect of faith, which has now become transmuted into attitude, and the Hindus have a spiritual path centered around faith called Bhakti Yoga. Our modern terms are more applicable to our present society, but underneath the change in terminology the concept lives on.

Another example of the "earthing of a religious concept" occurs when doing a ganzfeld or other free-response experiment. The first thing the participant is taught to do is to become aware of the content of their mind. This action is what the Christians call contemplation and the Buddhists call mindfulness, and it is the first step in meditation, the first step in learning how to develop one's mind. The state of consciousness that the ganzfeld induces is to be found in quite a number of different religions as well, albeit induced in radically different methods, such as getting up and chanting at 3 a.m. the point in common with all these methods is the aim to create a state of consciousness whereby the conscious mind is stopped, thus allowing one to access material from the collective unconscious.

SCIENCE WITH A CONSCIENCE

It is no wonder, then, that so many academic scientists are so skeptical of, and derisive about, parapsychology. Whether we like it or not we are advocating a return to a spiritual way of life, one that puts spirit energy back into the materialist equation, and this threatens the whole power base of the materialist science that is presently in power. They also find it threatening because it means they have to look into their own consciences once again. (I even had to look up the spelling of "conscience," it is so long since I used the word: con-science, with knowledge.) Inglis (1986) calls today's science "scientism", and when I see advertisements on TV no longer using sex or affluence to sell their products but rather a "scientist" in a white coat, then I know that scientists are verily the most influential symbol of today, the high priests of the latest religion. This makes it even more important for scientists regain their conscience, their morality, their judgment of what is right and wrong. It makes it even more important for scientists to admit publicly that matter has spirit as its counterpart, for then the whole of our city-based society will do likewise, rather than just dissenters and country people as at present. If an advertisement can sell washing powder through "scientific" approval then we can sell anything! It is important to note here that it is society's view of establishment science that is selling the washing powder. With psi we have the strange situation of phenomena that a majority of people, according to the polls, believe in, but that are rejected by establishment science. If the establishment were to accept psi, then the belief system of the whole society would change accordingly.

As mentioned earlier, scientists must learn to follow their hearts as well as their minds, for psi is a very emotional method of communication, a feeling more often than a thought. The aspect of bringing heart back into science and society is possibly one of the most important influences that must occur with the acceptance of psi by the establishment.

Just as a healer can affect the rate of growth of a seedling or the healing of a wound, so we can affect the healing of Planet Earth. I am not suggesting that with the acceptance of psi there will be a return to superstition, because superstition is belief without any foundation, without confirmation. The method of science is a sure way to a clear understanding of the matter in question, and so makes a firm foundation for a belief. However, I do feel that the present philosophy associated with science will change along with the establishment science's acceptance of psi. Then we will have a science with a conscience."

 

[logician]

I do know I dislike shows like ghosthunters, which try to legitmize the "ghost" trade by assigning personalities, motives, etc. to strange noises, lights, thermoimages, or any eletronically amplified images. The worst thing is that they try to appear to be "neutral" on the subject, yet the first thing they do when they go into a room is starting asking questions of the supposed ghost haunting the place.

Believing in ghosts really requires an underlying reigious belief (souls live on after we die), and also requires believing rather absurd notions that SOME of them hang around for various reasons, none of which make much sense.

 

[Storm]

Believing in ghosts really requires an underlying reigious belief (souls live on after we die), and also requires believing rather absurd notions that SOME of them hang around for various reasons, none of which make much sense.

I don't think a belief in souls is inherently religious, logician. I've known several atheists who believed in such things.

 

[logician]

I don't think a belief in souls is inherently religious, logician. I've known several atheists who believed in such things.

If you took a survey of believers in ghosts vs believers in religion, I think the correlation would be quite high.

 

[Storm]

If you took a survey of believers in ghosts vs believers in religion, I think the correlation would be quite high.

So? Doesn't make one a product of the other.

 

[logician]

So? Doesn't make one a product of the other.

If you have a high correlation, it's a lock that belief in religion and belief in the paranormal are closely related.Get out your statistics text.

 

[Student of X]

I do know I dislike shows like ghosthunters, which try to legitmize the "ghost" trade by assigning personalities, motives, etc. to strange noises, lights, thermoimages, or any eletronically amplified images. The worst thing is that they try to appear to be "neutral" on the subject, yet the first thing they do when they go into a room is starting asking questions of the supposed ghost haunting the place.

Believing in ghosts really requires an underlying reigious belief (souls live on after we die), and also requires believing rather absurd notions that SOME of them hang around for various reasons, none of which make much sense.

I don't much care for those shows either.

Are you under the impression that all parapsychologists believe in ghosts? Not all parapsychologists are ghost-hunters, despite the impression Ghostbusters might make on the movie-going public. Not all parapsychologists believe mediums communicate with the dead. I only pay attention to research parapsychologists who actually perform experiments in the lab.

[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]"Many researchers of the paranormal suspect that ghostly manifestations and poltergeist phenomena (objects flying through the air, unexplained footsteps and door slammings) are products of the human mind.[/FONT]"

How To Create a Ghost

 

[Storm]

If you have a high correlation, it's a lock that belief in religion and belief in the paranormal are closely related.Get out your statistics text.

Now you're moving the goalposts.

 

[danny vee]

I don't much care for those shows either.

Are you under the impression that all parapsychologists believe in ghosts? Not all parapsychologists are ghost-hunters, despite the impression Ghostbusters might make on the movie-going public. Not all parapsychologists believe mediums communicate with the dead. I only pay attention to research parapsychologists who actually perform experiments in the lab.

[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]"Many researchers of the paranormal suspect that ghostly manifestations and poltergeist phenomena (objects flying through the air, unexplained footsteps and door slammings) are products of the human mind.[/FONT]"

How To Create a Ghost

But what about people who say they've had a conversation with something supernatural? Is this a product of the human mind too? People who have seen this phenomena talk to them? And how about when more than one person sees something phenomenal happen? Are they all hallucinating at the same time? For example the events of Fatima 1917, if not familiar, just Google it. Were all those people hallucinating? Sounds a tad unrealistic.

 

[Student of X]

But what about people who say they've had a conversation with something supernatural? Is this a product of the human mind too? People who have seen this phenomena talk to them? And how about when more than one person sees something phenomenal happen? Are they all hallucinating at the same time? For example the events of Fatima 1917, if not familiar, just Google it. Were all those people hallucinating? Sounds a tad unrealistic.

I've been in a situation where I've seen something phenomenal happen with more than one person present. I don't really like the word "hallucination", when it comes to things like that or things like Fatima. Have you read The Holographic Universe? Here is an excerpt:

The Holographic Universe - 0

IIRC Fatima is mentioned.

 

[Willamena]

...the question is of phenomena, which remain, as if, outside the embrace of science, information that reaches the brain by some unknown ways out of sense organs, and influence that is exerted on the brains of other persons by the same ways.

Good definition of mysterious phenomena as they're generally viewed, I think.

I oppose parapsychology as rational simply because of the nature of explanations. Strange things happen, and we come up with explanations. Whether or not we regard our explanation as scientific, it doesn't replace any other explanation except in the sense that we accept it by giving it more weight. All explanations are inherently satisfying if they are acceptable, but that doesn't make them the correct or only explanation.

 

[Student of X]

Good definition of mysterious phenomena as they're generally viewed, I think.

I oppose parapsychology as rational simply because of the nature of explanations. Strange things happen, and we come up with explanations. Whether or not we regard our explanation as scientific, it doesn't replace any other explanation except in the sense that we accept it by giving it more weight. All explanations are inherently satisfying if they are acceptable, but that doesn't make them the correct or only explanation.

You might be interested in this:

A MODULAR MODEL OF MIND/MATTER MANIFESTATIONS (M5)

R.G. Jahn & B.J. Dunne
Journal of Scientific Exploration, 15, No. 3 (2001)

As empirical data like those reported in the articles of the Technical Studies Section above continued to compound, along with the informal testimony of our operators regarding their experiences and impressions while they were producing those data accumulations, it became progressively clear that two essential ingredients had not been adequately included in prior attempts to model the phenomena, namely the involvement of the unconscious mind, and its intercourse with the sub-tangible levels of physical mechanics. In a first effort to redress these oversights, we proposed a conceptual taxonomy that has come to be known as “M5,” an acronym for a “Modular Model of Mind/Matter Manifestations,” presented in full in the following article. This was shortly followed by a mathematical embellishment entitled “M*: Vector Representation of the Subliminal Seed Regime of M5,” which proposed a rudimentary tactical recipe for activating the M5 dynamics, offered here in abstract and detailed in the links.

Abstract

While ongoing empirical research into anomalous mind/matter interactions continues to reaffirm the reality of such phenomena, it has heretofore failed to stimulate viable theoretical models, or even to suggest effective strategies for more productive experimentation. In contrast to prevalent presumption, reexamination of several large databases from this laboratory raises doubt that such effects are produced by direct attention of the conscious mind to the observable physical processes addressed.

Rather, an alternative route is indicated wherein unconscious mind and intangible physical mechanisms are invoked to achieve anomalous acquisition of mental information about, or anomalous mental influence upon, otherwise inaccessible material processes. Implications for more effective experiments include subtler feedback schemes that facilitate submission of conscious intention to unconscious mental processing; physical target systems that provide a richness of intangible potentialities; operators who are amenable to such interactions; and an environmental ambience that supports the composite strategy.

Theoretical requisites include better understanding of the information dialogue between conscious and unconscious aspects of mind; more pragmatic formulations of the relations between tangible and intangible physical processes; and most importantly, cogent representation of the merging of mental and material dimensions into indistinguishability at their deepest levels.

I. BACKGROUND

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Full paper:

http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/1550-8307/PIIS1550830707000766.pdf

 

[danny vee]

I've been in a situation where I've seen something phenomenal happen with more than one person present. I don't really like the word "hallucination", when it comes to things like that or things like Fatima. Have you read The Holographic Universe? Here is an excerpt:

The Holographic Universe - 0

IIRC Fatima is mentioned.

I read the excerpt, and I thought it was really cool, and just basically backed up and enforced what I previously believed.