Twig pentagram
High Priest
Which side do you think pantheist belong on? I think panentheist are more RHP, and pantheist are more LHP. What do you think about this?
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Pantheist, LHP or RHP?
- Thread starter Twig pentagram
- Start date
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I see both as both.
Satans_Serrated_Edge
Deicidal
I guess it hinges on the definition of god. If you see 'god' as nothing more than the sum of everything..then it is as Dawkins described it, 'sexed up atheism' and really not incompatible with the LHP, as no empty or unprovable claims are on the table.
Twig pentagram
High Priest
I think that the sum of everything is the objective god. The subjective god is up to ones own perception. I think I am an extension of the objective universe and I am the god of my subjective universe.
Twig pentagram
High Priest
Panentheist worship and serve a deity that they are a part of but it's greater than themselves. That sounds like RHP. Pantheist don't worship or serve deity, because we and deity are one and the same. That sounds like LHP.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I think this is asking more of an individual's form of worship. Sorry, I thought you meant the ideas themselves. Both suggest an immanent Being, the difference being that Panentheists believe the God is also transcendent. In this way, both paths can exist depending on how the believer takes it: there are pantheists that worship and panentheists that don't also.
Twig pentagram
High Priest
I've never heard of a pantheist that worships. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm just saying this is a first for me.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I used to be (and sometimes still am). The idea is understanding that there is only the One that is a part of everything, and being grateful for that relationship.
In many way, art is becoming central to my rationale for ritual. I enjoy ritual because it allows for me to creatively express my inner world. It's not necessary, just enjoyable.
Of course, I switch between pantheism and panentheism (as well as between atheist and agnosticism) depending on my perspective of the world.
Twig pentagram
High Priest
Yes it is possible. I just had never heard it before today. I've heard of pantheist with great reverence for nature but not worshippers.
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So, worshippers aren't natural? Or pantheists aren't worshippers?
Twig pentagram
High Priest
Pantheism, panentheism, atheist and agnosticism. How do you do that?
It's my belief he's leaning towards perspectivism.
Twig pentagram
High Priest
Don't know, don't care.But where does that leave the relative god? Where???!?
Twig pentagram
High Priest
Most pantheist are'nt worshippers.
I agree that panentheists tend to be more RHP, but I dont agree that pantheists are LHP. The focus of pantheism is on the whole (with or without worship), not on the individual.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
The idea of an external deity of any kind is a dodgy issue when it comes to the LHP. Now I don't agree with the notion that belief in an external deity automatically precludes one from the LHP, but I do believe that once a LHP practitioner has a concept of an external deity they can quite easily slip onto the RHP.
Basically if a person on the LHP believes in a deity or God concept beyond themselves (whether pantheistic, panentheistic or otherwise) they have to ask themselves one important question, "What am I getting out of this?" I see no problem with believing in any form of god one cares to believe in so long as it benefits them.
Possibly the best example of what I'm talking about is when Setians, Luciferians and (some) theistic Satanists describe having a partnership with their deity rather than a master/slave relationship. As long as the primary focus remains on the self and self improvement I don't see this as incompatible with the LHP. This applies to pantheism/panentheism as well as theism in general.
Basically if a person on the LHP believes in a deity or God concept beyond themselves (whether pantheistic, panentheistic or otherwise) they have to ask themselves one important question, "What am I getting out of this?" I see no problem with believing in any form of god one cares to believe in so long as it benefits them.
Possibly the best example of what I'm talking about is when Setians, Luciferians and (some) theistic Satanists describe having a partnership with their deity rather than a master/slave relationship. As long as the primary focus remains on the self and self improvement I don't see this as incompatible with the LHP. This applies to pantheism/panentheism as well as theism in general.