out of curiosity

[SLAMH]

I'm interested to know about the basic facts and pillars that structure the foundation of Hinduism. I will post some questions here from time to time and based on the answers further questions will be made up as well.

I'm not intending to debate or refute the reality that Hinduism state, but I'm just interested to know more.


So, How does Hinduism look at the world and how it explains the purpose of the existence ?

 

[Riverwolf]

Just a heads up: you're going to get a lot of different answers. ^_^

Depends on the sect. One thing to keep in mind is that Hinduism isn't really a single religion like Islam is, so there aren't really any "pillars" as its foundation (though I'm sure some have tried to come up with some.) Hinduism is, in fact, an umbrella term for several religions, each with their own Supreme God, outlook on the world, saints, and religious texts. However, there are several things that bind each Hindu religion together.

The most important one is the Vedas. This is the primary method for categorizing a religion as "Hindu": whether or not it follows the Vedas. It is said that a religious text must not contradict the Vedas, or it will be invalid. At first, this may lead to all kinds of confusion from someone who is familiar with the Abrahamic religions. After all, how can you keep from contradicting the Vedas when you have several different religions? A single verse from the Rig Veda sums it up: "Truth is One, Sages call It by many names." In Hinduism, it is believed that the Divine takes many forms, and that worship of any of these forms is valid. Therefore, Vishnu is not different than Shiva or Brahma, and they are not different from the Divine Mother. They are all manifestations of the Supreme.

The Hindu view of the world is rather complex, and I don't fully understand it myself. I'm sure someone with more experience can explain it better.

As for the purpose of existence, I'm not sure if it's different in certain sects, but among the most popular Hindu religions, especially the bhakti ones (bhakti means devotion), the purpose is to grow back to God. We came from God, we live with God, and we will ultimately go back to God. According to Hinduism, there is not a single soul that will never go back to God. But like I said, I'm not sure if the purpose of existence is different in other sects.

 

[Satsangi]

Agree with Riverwolf that you will have many answers. Also agree that Vedas are the most important.

Hinduism believes in the Karma- to sum it up in very short way- "one reaps what one sows." Hinduism also believes in re-incarnation as per the fruits of the Karmas which are given by God. If one does plenty of good deeds (punya), they go to heaven and if one does bad deeds (paap), they go to hell. But, at the end of the fruits of one's deeds (in heaven or hell), they are re-incarnated again. In this way the cycle continues till one is free from all the desires except God. When one realizes God, that is the final liberation with or without re-births.

Hinduism believes that the creation has a purpose- for one to recognize the God i.e attain liberation and to live through the fruits of the karmas.

 

[SLAMH]

Thank you Riverwolf and Satsangi for explaining and responding to my question.

As I understood, the purpose is to mature the soul by attaining the full realization of God and that would result the eternal liberation. That is so complex and deep and especially the concept of the constant reincarnation until one is free of all the desires except God.

So if I may not bother you, Can I know the story of the creation of the universe (world) and (us) as Human ?.

Also Are heaven and hell exposed to extinction in time to come, I mean if all human being succeed or pass the block of recognition and realization ?.

And Thanks in advance for everyone who w'd help.

 

[Madhuri]

Here are some quotes from scripture about Creation:

SB 1.3.1: Sūta said: In the beginning of the creation, the Lord first expanded Himself in the universal form of the puruṣa incarnation and manifested all the ingredients for the material creation. And thus at first there was the creation of the sixteen principles of material action. This was for the purpose of creating the material universe.


SB 1.3.2: A part of the puruṣa lies down within the water of the universe, from the navel lake of His body sprouts a lotus stem, and from the lotus flower atop this stem, Brahmā, the master of all engineers in the universe, becomes manifest.

SB 1.3.3: It is believed that all the universal planetary systems are situated on the extensive body of the puruṣa, but He has nothing to do with the created material ingredients. His body is eternally in spiritual existence par excellence.


SB 1.3.4: The devotees, with their perfect eyes, see the transcendental form of the puruṣa who has thousands of legs, thighs, arms and faces — all extraordinary. In that body there are thousands of heads, ears, eyes and noses. They are decorated with thousands of helmets and glowing earrings and are adorned with garlands.


SB 1.3.5: This form [the second manifestation of the puruṣa] is the source and indestructible seed of multifarious incarnations within the universe. From the particles and portions of this form, different living entities, like devas, men and others, are created.


It goes on to tell about the avatars of God that appear on earth. Then it continues:


SB 1.3.28: All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.

SB 1.3.30: The conception of the virāṭ universal form of the Lord, as appearing in the material world, is imaginary. It is to enable the less intelligent [and neophytes] to adjust to the idea of the Lord's having form. But factually the Lord has no material form.

SB 1.3.32: Beyond this gross conception of form is another, subtle conception of form which is without formal shape and is unseen, unheard and unmanifest. The living being has his form beyond this subtlety, otherwise he could not have repeated births.


SB 1.3.33: Whenever a person experiences, by self-realization, that both the gross and subtle bodies have nothing to do with the pure self, at that time he sees himself as well as the Lord.


SB 1.3.34: If the illusory energy subsides and the living entity becomes fully enriched with knowledge by the grace of the Lord, then he becomes at once enlightened with self-realization and thus becomes situated in his own glory.


SB 1.3.40: This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the literary incarnation of God, and it is compiled by Śrīla Vyāsadeva, the incarnation of God. It is meant for the ultimate good of all people, and it is all-successful, all-blissful and all-perfect.

 

[Madhuri]

SLAMH, we do not have the same idea of heaven and hell. There are places described as hellish planets, and yes, these go through the same cycles of creation and destruction. There are heavenly planets too. But 'heaven', the ultimate place, is not part of the material universe. It is entirely Spiritual (ie. of Spirit, not matter). Anything of Spirit is eternal. Our very Self is Spirit, trapped in this material body and this material world. But we are eternal, as our true self is spirit. So no, 'heaven' is not exposed to extinction.

It is important to note that even the material universe does not ever cease to exist. It is created, destroyed, re-created, destroyed...etc. Like a fire that sweeps an old forest in order to allow a new and younger one to replace it.

 

[Madhuri]

More:

[SIZE=-1]These are the primary expansions of Lor[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]d [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Vishnu (God):[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]- Kâranodakas'âyî Vishnu (Mâhâ-Vishnu) lies within the Causal Ocean and breathes our innumerable universes;

[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]- Garbhodakas'âyî Vishnu enters each universe and creates diversity;
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]- Kshîrodakas'âyî Vishnu (the Supersoul) enters into the heart of every created being and into every atom.[/SIZE]
​

There is an important chapter in the Srimad Bhagavatam, which I will provide in case you wish to read through it:

Chapter 5: The Cause of all Causes
[SIZE=-1](1)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]N[SIZE=-1]ârada said [to the Creator]: 'My obeisances to you o god of the demigods, for you are the one firstborn from whom all living beings generated. Please explain which knowledge specifically leads to the transcendental. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](2)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]What is the form, the basis and the source of this created world? O master, how is it conserved, by what is it controlled and please, what is it factually[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]? [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](3)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]All this is known by your good self, since you know all that has become, will become and is becoming. Master, you hold this universe in the grip of your scientific knowledge,[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] like one holds a walnut.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](4)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]What is the source of your wisdom, who protects you and who is above you? In what capacity do you, with the help of the potency of the soul, on your own create the lives of all beings with the elements of matter?[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](5)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Like a spider creating its web, you without any help manifest from your own soul power all these lives by whom you are never controlled[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](6)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]O almighty one, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]in this world [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]I do not know a single entity hav[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]ing a name and form [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]that is superior, inferior or equal, of a temporary nature or lasting forever, which owes its existence to another source [than you].[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](7)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]We're weary of the fact that you with your perfect discipline underwent severe penances. We thus had the chance to doubt whether your good self would be the ultimate truth [and thus thought of an entity higher than you].[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](8)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]O all-knowing ruler over all, please explain to me all that I have asked you, so that I will be of an understanding in accord with your instructions.'[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](9)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]T[SIZE=-1]he Creator replied: 'O gentle one so dear to me, you are so very kind in your perfect inquiries. That inspires me to further see into the heroism of the Supreme Lord. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](10)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]My son, you are not mistaken in what you just said in your describing me, because without knowing the Supreme beyond me, it certainly will turn out to be as you said.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](11)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]All of the world that I created was created by the effulgence [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][the brahmajyoti][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] of His existence,[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] just as the fire, the sun, the moon, the planets and the stars[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [radiate after His effulgence].[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](12)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]I bring Him my obeisances, the Supreme Lord Vâsudeva upon whom I meditate, by dint of whose invincible potencies one calls me the teacher [guru] of the world.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](13)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] Unashamed about keeping a prominent position with the bewildering material energy, those who are deluded make a wrong use of words in speaking of 'I' and 'mine'. By that use of words I am poorly understood. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](14)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The five elements in their interaction with Eternal Time as also the natural disposition of the living being, are certainly part of Vâsudeva o brahmin, but the truth is that each of them separately has no value.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](15)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Nârâyana [Krishna as the four-armed original Personality of God and primordial Lord of man] is the cause of the knowledge, the demigods are His helping hands, for His sake the worlds exist and all sacrifices are just there to please Him, the Supreme Lord.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](16)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] Concentration of mind is just there to know Nârâyana, austerity is only there to achieve Nârâyana, the culture of transcendence is just there to become aware of Nârâyana and progress on the path of salvation is there only to enter the kingdom of Nârâyana. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](17)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] I[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]nspired by what was[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] created by Him, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]the Seer, the Soul of All, the Controller of All Intelligence who created me, I also create.[/SIZE]

 

[Madhuri]

[SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](18)[/SIZE]O[SIZE=-1]f the [modes of] goodness, passion and ignorance [see [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]4.23[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]], that because of the Almighty [Lord of Time] by the external energy were assumed, there are the three qualities of transcendence: maintenance, creation and destruction. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](19)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The eternally liberated, living entity subjected to conditions of cause and effect is affected [though] by the modes of material energy [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]that [in his life then] manifest with the symptoms of [respectively] knowledge, activities[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] and material inertia.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](20)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]He, the Supreme Lord, the witness of the witness [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]who [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][by the living entity who is led] by the symptoms of the three modes cannot be recognized in His movements o brahmin, is the controller of everyone as well as of myself.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](21)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1][The Lord of] Eternal Time, the controller of the deluding potency of matter [mâyâ] thus took upon Himself, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]from His own potency [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]spontaneously appearing in different obtained [guna] forms, the workload [karma] and specific nature [or svabhâva, of the living entity].[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](22)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Because of the superintendence of the original person the creation of the mahat-tattva [the 'greater reality'] took place, from eternal time there was the transformation of the modes and from these specific natures the different activities found their existence.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](23)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]But because of the transformation of the greater complete passion and goodness strongly dominated [in the beginning]. Thereupon [countering in reaction] the mode of darkness became more prominent that is characterized by matter, material knowledge and a predominance of material activities.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](24)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]That transformed material ego, as said, manifested itself according to the three characteristics of goodness, passion and ignorance, and thus prabhu, the powers of a guiding intelligence, knowledge of creation and material evolution [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]divided.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](25)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] From the form of darkness that underwent transformation, of all the elements [first] the ether evolved with its subtle form and quality of sound which is indicative of the seen as well as the seer.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](26-29)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]By transformation of the ether the air found its existence which is characterized by the quality of touch. Along with it sound also appeared as a characteristic that was remembered from the ether. Thus air acquired a life of diversity [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]as well [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]with energy and force. Air on its turn again transformed under the influence of time and generated [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] from its nature [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]the element of fire [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]in response to what preceded. With its form there was likewise touch and sound [as the hereditary burden or the karma of the previous elements]. Fire transformed [or condensated from oxygen and hydrogen] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]into [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]water. Thus the element of taste came about which consequently was accompanied by touch, sound and form. But because of the variegatedness of that transformation of water next followed the smell of the juice which assumed form [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][as the earth element] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]together with the qualities of touch and sound.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](30)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] From the mode of goodness the [cosmic] mind of the gods generated who act in goodness, counting the ten of them [according to the five senses of perception and action] as the controllers of the directions [the Digdevatâs], the air [Vâyu], the sun [Sûrya], the waters [Varuna], longevity [the As'vinî-Kumâras], fire [Agni], the heavens [Indra], the deity of transcendence [Vishnu in the form of Upendra], the deity of friendship [Mitra] and the guardian of creation [Brahmâ]. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](31)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] From the passion of ego the according tenfold transformation took place that gave the living energy the intelligence of all the senses of action - the mouth, the hands, the feet, the genitals, and the anus - and perception - sight, hearing, touch, taste and smell.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1](32)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] As long as all these catogories of the elements, the senses, the mind and the modes of nature remained separate, the body [of man and mankind] could not be formed, o best one of knowledge [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][Nârada][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](33)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] When all these [elements] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]by means of the [compelling] force of the Supreme Lord [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]were assembled and found their application, this universe with both its true and illusory, its spiritual and material realities [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [sat/asat] found [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]its existence.[/SIZE]

 

[Madhuri]

[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1](34)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]T[SIZE=-1]he universe after countless millenia having been submerged in the [causal] waters[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], was by the individual soul [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][the jîva or the Lord][/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]who animates the inanimate awakened to its own time of living[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](35)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] He Himself as the original person [the Purusha] appeared from within the universal egg to divide Himself in thousands of divisions of legs, arms, eyes, mouths and heads. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](36)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The great philosophers conceive of all the worlds of the universe as the limbs of a body [the virâth rûpa] which has seven systems below the waist and seven systems in the upper portion.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](37)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] The brahmins represent the mouth of the Original Person, the ruling class constitutes His arms, the traders form the thighs of the Supreme Lord and the laborer class His legs. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](38)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The earthly [lower] worlds [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][Bhûrlokas] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]belong to His legs so one says, the ethereal worlds [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][Bhuvarlokas] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]belong to His belly, the heavenly worlds from the heart [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][Svarlokas] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]are situated in His chest while the highest worlds of the saints and sages [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][Maharlokas] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1] are of the Great Soul[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](39)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Above the chest up to the neck one finds the world of the godly [the sons of Brahmâ, Janaloka] and higher up in the neck one finds the world of renunciation [Tapoloka, of the ascetics]. The world of truth [Satyaloka of the selfrealized, the enlightened ones] is found in the head. [These worlds are all temporal] but the spiritual world [Brahmaloka, the world of the one Soul, the Supreme Lord] is eternal.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](40-41)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] With on His waist the first of the lower worlds, further down the second on the hips, the third down to the knees, the fourth on the shanks, the fifth on His ankles, the sixth on His feet and the seventh on the soles of His feet[compare [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]2-1: 26-39[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]], the body of the Lord [virâth-rûpa or universal form] is filled with all the [fourteen types of] worlds. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1](42)[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]One imagines the worlds alternatively [simply divided in three] with the earthly, lower worlds situated on the legs, the ethereal, middle worlds in the region of the navel and the heavenly, higher worlds found from the chest upwards.'[/SIZE]

 

[Madhuri]

By the way, it is Brahma who is speaking. He is first created from the body of Maha Vishnu and is responsible for manifesting all the planets and life forms in the material universe.

 

[Madhuri]

There is of course more, but I think I've flooded this thread enough...
I will point out that what I have presented here is from the perspective of Vaishnava philosophy, a prominent branch of Hinduism, which believes in a personal God. So my response here will not necessarily reflect the beliefs of all Hindus.

One last thing, the scripture does here and there mention that some of its descriptions are not literal. As an example from above, it mentions that the description of God with numerous heads, limbs noses etc. is not literal/factual but allegorical for the sake of helping us to understand something. It is very important to keep this in mind.

 

[Satsangi]

Thank you Riverwolf and Satsangi for explaining and responding to my question.

As I understood, the purpose is to mature the soul by attaining the full realization of God and that would result the eternal liberation. That is so complex and deep and especially the concept of the constant reincarnation until one is free of all the desires except God.

So if I may not bother you, Can I know the story of the creation of the universe (world) and (us) as Human ?.

Also Are heaven and hell exposed to extinction in time to come, I mean if all human being succeed or pass the block of recognition and realization ?.

And Thanks in advance for everyone who w'd help.

Friend Slamh,

I have tried to put in short the essence of the creation and dissolution in my thread on Samkhya Philosophy under Hinduism DIR- post 15 and 16. It is the essence of what Madhuri has detailed above.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/88846-sankhya-philosophy-2.html

I willl try to simplify it here further. With the wish of the Supreme God, the Prakriti (Maya) which was dormant along with the Souls in it at the time of dissolution, undergoes transformation as the Supreme Chaitanya (Consciousness) principle is added to it. From that, may Universes are formed. Talking about one such Universe- intially out of the transformed Maya the three egos (Satt, Rajas, Tamas) and out of that the "equipment" for the bodies of various species are formed. The Souls which were dormant in the Maya are then given various types of bodies as per their Karma fruits given by the Supreme.

About dissolution- there are four levels of severity- Mildest is the routine deaths that we see, second one is where the earth, heaven and hell are destroyed, third one in which all the heavenly and hellish places in the whole Universe is destroyed and in the final one, all the Universes are destroyed and they merge in the BrahmJyoti- the effulgence of the Supreme.

The creation and dissolution go on in the cycle for eternity.

Regards,

 

[kaisersose]

Jumping in late, but this has not been covered in this thread.

The Vedas are *not* the most important texts of Hinduism. This need for identifying important texts common to all or most Hindus, is born of political reasons and a need to copy Western religion.

Long ago, there were six main Darshanas popular in Hindu literary circles of which only two revered the Veda (Mimamsa & Vedanta). And then there were Pashupathas, Bhagavatas, Pancharatra followers and tons of other undocumented beliefs who were not folowing the Veda. The Vedas were not important for most Hindus 2000 years ago. Fire worship had given way to idol worship and once prominent Vedic Gods like Indra, Mitra, Varuna, etc were already out of fashion by that time and had been replaced by non-vedic Gods like Shiva, Rama, Krishna, Ganesh, Laxmi, etc.

Of these two Darshanas that followed the Veda, the Mimamsa school of Jaimini was decimated during the 8th century AD by Vedanta schools. That left only the Vedanta Darshana standing which considered the Veda of any value. Today followers of Vedanta schools are a miniscule fraction of Hindus and hence it is incorrect to say Vedas are important texts for HIndus. Take the Vedas out of the picture and 99% of HInduism today will remain exactly the same.

There are several books available on the history of religion in India like History of early Vedanta by Nakamura, The rise and fall of Buddhism in India, etc., which should give you a good picture of how religion in the sub continent has changed face several times, leading to what we call HInduism today.

 

[Satsangi]

Jumping in late, but this has not been covered in this thread.

The Vedas are *not* the most important texts of Hinduism. This need for identifying important texts common to all or most Hindus, is born of political reasons and a need to copy Western religion.

Long ago, there were six main Darshanas popular in Hindu literary circles of which only two revered the Veda (Mimamsa & Vedanta). And then there were Pashupathas, Bhagavatas, Pancharatra followers and tons of other undocumented beliefs who were not folowing the Veda. The Vedas were not important for most Hindus 2000 years ago. Fire worship had given way to idol worship and once prominent Vedic Gods like Indra, Mitra, Varuna, etc were already out of fashion by that time and had been replaced by non-vedic Gods like Shiva, Rama, Krishna, Ganesh, Laxmi, etc.

Of these two Darshanas that followed the Veda, the Mimamsa school of Jaimini was decimated during the 8th century AD by Vedanta schools. That left only the Vedanta Darshana standing which considered the Veda of any value. Today followers of Vedanta schools are a miniscule fraction of Hindus and hence it is incorrect to say Vedas are important texts for HIndus. Take the Vedas out of the picture and 99% of HInduism today will remain exactly the same.

There are several books available on the history of religion in India like History of early Vedanta by Nakamura, The rise and fall of Buddhism in India, etc., which should give you a good picture of how religion in the sub continent has changed face several times, leading to what we call HInduism today.

Take a vote among all the sect leaders of Sanatana Dharma today and find out how many say that Vedas are not important. You may put it as political and some unseen need, but fact remains that Vedas hold most importance among most Hindus. I think there is ample evidence that Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu are mentioned in Vedas multiple times, for example Sri Rudram. Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are Avathars and hence not mentioned. As far as Pancharatra followers, Agamas are highly reverred ALONG with the Vedas. For Pashupatha followers, Shiva Pancharatra is highly reverred ALONG with the Vedas.

Regards,

 

[kaisersose]

Take a vote among all the sect leaders of Sanatana Dharma today and find out how many say that Vedas are not important.

Most of them will say what you said - that the Vedas are key to Hinduism. They will also say Krishna lived 5000 years ago and Rama lived hundreds of thousands of years ago. They probably believe it all too.

You may put it as political and some unseen need, but fact remains that Vedas hold most importance among most Hindus.

Because they have been told that. But what place does it have in the their daily religious practices? None. Their religious practices comprises of three types of activites

) Idol worship at home
2) Singing Bhajans
3) Visiting temples

*None* of these activities nor the Gods involved are Vedic. 99% of their religious activities would be the same if there had never been any vedas. Just like they will say Sanskrit is the coolest language ever, though they probably cannot understand a single word. They have been told that and they believed it - like they believed everything else.

Shiva is not mentioned in the Vedas. Rudra = Shiva comes from outside the Veda and is not the same as a mention of Shiva in the Veda. The Gaudiya Vaishnavas claim there is a mention of Chaitanya (their founder from the 16th century) in the Vedas because a golden colored Purusha is mentioned. Chaitanya was golden in color => a golden purusha is mentioned in the Veda => ergo, Chaitanya is mentioned in the Veda! You would be surprised at how many people actually believe that.

This should not be hard to get at all - if you have spent enough time among HIndus.

 

[Riverwolf]

Most of them will say what you said - that the Vedas are key to Hinduism. They will also say Krishna lived 5000 years ago and Rama lived hundreds of thousands of years ago. They probably believe it all too.

And the teachings of the Sages are the support of Hinduism. Whatever they say, even if it's not the same as the way it used to be (which it isn't) it's the way it is now.

Because they have been told that. But what place does it have in the their daily religious practices?

Singing and chanting hymns.

None. Their religious practices comprises of three types of activites

) Idol worship at home

By chanting certain hymns from the Vedas.

2) Singing Bhajans

That's ultimately what Vedic hymns are.

3) Visiting temples

Where priests bless them by chanting Vedic hymns.

*None* of these activities nor the Gods involved are Vedic.

Then what would be Vedic? Can you describe in detail what a Vedic-based life style would be?

Shiva is not mentioned in the Vedas. Rudra = Shiva comes from outside the Veda and is not the same as a mention of Shiva in the Veda.

Shiva is a word for auspiciousness, and another name for Rudra. There's no reason to think that Shiva is just a more contemporary name used for Rudra.

This is supported by the Vedas, by the way. Go read the Sri Rudram in Sanskrit. You'll see the word Shiva all over it, even if you don't speak it. (Ya te Rudra Shiva tanuraghora papakashini) Heck, the famous mantra "Namah Sivaya" comes from this set of hymns from the Yajur Veda. Were you aware of that?

The Gaudiya Vaishnavas claim there is a mention of Chaitanya (their founder from the 16th century) in the Vedas because a golden colored Purusha is mentioned. Chaitanya was golden in color => a golden purusha is mentioned in the Veda => ergo, Chaitanya is mentioned in the Veda! You would be surprised at how many people actually believe that.

This should not be hard to get at all - if you have spent enough time among HIndus.

How much time have you actually spent among Hindus, anyway, and how much variety have you seen?

And how many temples have you been to where Vedic hymns aren't chanted?

 

[Madhuri]

The Gaudiya Vaishnavas claim there is a mention of Chaitanya (their founder from the 16th century) in the Vedas because a golden colored Purusha is mentioned. Chaitanya was golden in color => a golden purusha is mentioned in the Veda => ergo, Chaitanya is mentioned in the Veda! You would be surprised at how many people actually believe that.

There's actually more detail then that. Have you read the parts that talk about it?

 

[Madhuri]

Because they have been told that. But what place does it have in the their daily religious practices? None. Their religious practices comprises of three types of activites

) Idol worship at home
2) Singing Bhajans
3) Visiting temples

I just want to add:

4) Reading from scripture
5) Yoga Meditation
6) Gayatri (which is found in Rig Veda)

In reference to 2) singing bhajans, what is your point? Hymns, poems, songs, they are all part of the traditional devotional practice. Of course the way people practice evolves over time, the spirit or the point of it is maintained. You do realise that the entire Sama Veda is a compilation of devotional hymns, right?

And why is the creation of and visitation of temples a big deal? Humans naturally create institutions for gathering. We're social animals, its what we do. Unless you know of scripture that speaks against attending temples, then you don't really have a case here.

The Vedas deal a lot of sacrifice and rituals. But these were performed by Brahmins for particular occasions. I don't think it was parts of everyone's daily life. So why should it be now? We still do have fire sacrifice rituals and such on many occasions. Hindus are still Vedic.

 

[Satsangi]

Most of them will say what you said - that the Vedas are key to Hinduism. They will also say Krishna lived 5000 years ago and Rama lived hundreds of thousands of years ago. They probably believe it all too.



Because they have been told that. But what place does it have in the their daily religious practices? None. Their religious practices comprises of three types of activites

) Idol worship at home
2) Singing Bhajans
3) Visiting temples

*None* of these activities nor the Gods involved are Vedic. 99% of their religious activities would be the same if there had never been any vedas. Just like they will say Sanskrit is the coolest language ever, though they probably cannot understand a single word. They have been told that and they believed it - like they believed everything else.

Shiva is not mentioned in the Vedas. Rudra = Shiva comes from outside the Veda and is not the same as a mention of Shiva in the Veda. The Gaudiya Vaishnavas claim there is a mention of Chaitanya (their founder from the 16th century) in the Vedas because a golden colored Purusha is mentioned. Chaitanya was golden in color => a golden purusha is mentioned in the Veda => ergo, Chaitanya is mentioned in the Veda! You would be surprised at how many people actually believe that.

This should not be hard to get at all - if you have spent enough time among HIndus.

Yes... I forgot ONLY you knew what was correct. I do not have anything to say if you are saying that Rudram is not for Shiva. Lord Vishnu is mentioned as Vishnu in the Vedas- you conveniently forgot to address that in your post. Hymns of Vedas are themselves sung; hence can be called bhajans too. There are many Murthis found in the Indus valley civilization indicating temple worship. Yes, I do believe 100% that Lord Rama and Lord Krishna lived thousands of years ago; can you disprove it?

If I may ask you one question- when most of the Hindus believe in the sanctity of the Vedas why are you troubled by it? You are entitled to your own opinion, but I do not think it is fair to say that most Hindus (except you) are idiots that they just believe and do what they were told. The fact that you have mentioned only 3 activities that are done by Hindus shows ignorance. The Bhakti itself is of nine types (Navadhabhakti), to add yoga, meditation, Mantras, Tantra, satsangha, pilgrimage, Yajna, Jnana, daana etc.. etc.. are all religious activities of most Hindus.

Regards,


Regards,

 

[SLAMH]

First of all, I'd like to apologize for taking so long to reply as I have been so busy lately.
Madhuri, thank you for taking all that effort to convey the evolution theory as it is mentioned in Hindu scripture. I really appreciate that.
Satsangi, thank you for elaborating and expanding on the thought of the dissolution and recycle.

Anyway, I'll flip the topic a little bit as it is getting more towards spirituality and messing actuality.

I'd like to know if there is any restrictions in Hinduism, things that you are not suppose to do or you are not permitted to perform ?

Moreover, What moral values does Hinduism impose on the followers or is there any actions are being recommended and preferable ?

And by the way, Are Materials more considered as constant bad stimulus ? I mean is there any possibility to make materials a useful object or maybe a tool to the fulfillment of the realization of God or achieving eternity ?



And Thanks again.