Orthodox or Catholic?

[SoyLeche]

The other day I went out with the missionaries and we were talking to a family from Ethiopia. The dad and mom don't speak English - they speak some Ethiopian dialect, but their kids do (the oldest son at home is about 14ish), so the son was translating for the parents (I have no idea how well he was translating though...). Not ideal circumstances, and I'm not sure how that will end up working out, but the kids at least enjoy coming to church.

Anyway, the dad had a question that we were having a tough time understanding and answering. He would talk to the son for a minute or two, and then the son would say "He want's to know if you are Orthodox or Catholic". We told him that the Mormon church doesn't consider itself to come from either, he said something to his dad, his dad would talk for another couple of minutes and the son would say "He just wants to know if you are Orthodox or Catholic".

This went on for way too long, since we obviously weren't actually communicating too well. I'm not sure he grasped the concept of someone being Christian but not being either Orthodox or Catholic - and I'm not familiar enough with his cultural background to really be able to help him.

While he was talking to his son I heard the words "Jehovah" and "Bahai'i", and it seemed like he was saying that they were Orthodox (I'm assuming he meant Jehovah's Witnesses). I'm not sure why he would group the Bahai'i with the Orthodox, so it is entirely possible that he was talking about something different than I thought he was talking about.

I have done a bit of research and found out that he was probably talking about the Oriental Orthodox church (of which the Ehtiopian Orthodox church is a part), which it seems is different from the Eastern Orthodox church.

He also wanted to know when the Catholic and Orthodox broke apart, and which one was the original and which one broke off from the other. From my understanding, this question doesn't really make sense, since one didn't really "break off from" the other, they just kinda split up. He also wanted to know why they split, which, from my limited research (i.e. wikipedia) seems to have been due to the patriarch of Alexandria not accepting some things that came out of the Council of Chalcedon in the 5th century - something about the Trinity, and not liking the wording "in two natures", he would have accepted "of or from two natures".

Anyway, any further information that you can give on this topic would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Andal]

Hiya Soy,

Orthodox Christianity is one of the main and oldest religions of Ethiopia. None Orthodox/Catholics aren't as visible so it's not surprising that he may have not have encountered them, especially if he was from a more rural area. Without speaking the language yourself, it may be very difficult to communicate some of the ideas that you normally would.

As for the split between the two churches, there were a number of issues that were brought up. One of the problems was communication between the Roman and the Orthodox Churches in the middle ages. The language barrier was a huge issue. There were also disagreements regarding the roles of the pope and the patriarchs within the community. Finally, there were some issues over theology.

As for who is the original, both Churches have gone through changes over the centuries but the Orthodox seem to be the closest. They've seemed to maintain a lot of the ancient traditions. Their theology and rites may be older than the Catholics.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

The split between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches arose long ago during the writing of the Nicene creed over a theological dispute about whether the Spirit comes from the Father and the Son, or just the Father. It has never been resolved, so the split remains.

As to the Baha'i Faith, it's an entirely independant religion not affiliated with any other, although it does recognize all the major religions as legitimate and God-sent.

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[Mr Cheese]

There are also further divisions in Orthodoxy. The Ethiopian Church is very interesting in that it has apocryphal texts in their bible. I beleive they also have one of the versions of the book of Enoch.

They are of course related to the Coptic(Egyptian..Alexandrian) church which differs from the Greek Orthodox church for example.

 

[SoyLeche]

As to the Baha'i Faith, it's an entirely independant religion not affiliated with any other, although it does recognize all the major religions as legitimate and God-sent.

Yeah, I'm aware of that (mostly because of RF), which is why it confused me that he was seeming to group the Baha'i (and possibly the Jehovah's Witnesses) under "Orthodox". That kinda makes me want to say, "well, if the Baha'i are Orthodox, you can probably go ahead and call the Mormons Orthodox too", although the fact that the LDS church didn't come from either the Catholic or the Orthodox traditions is fairly important to our message....

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Perhaps the better question is how unorthodox the Baha'is are!

Cheers!

Bruce

 

[Mr Cheese]

Greetings!

Perhaps the better question is how unorthodox the Baha'is are!

Cheers!

Bruce

Well bahai is an offshoot of Islam....

It has a funny history.

Sadly we do have Bahai fundamentalists living and breathign today...

 

[Smoke]

The split between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches arose long ago during the writing of the Nicene creed over a theological dispute about whether the Spirit comes from the Father and the Son, or just the Father. It has never been resolved, so the split remains.

Not exactly. The Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept the original Nicene Creed which was accepted in the West for centuries. The controversy at Nicaea was between the Orthodox/Catholics and the Arians.

The Oriental Orthodox Churches, of which the Ethiopian Church is one, accepted the Nicene Creed, but did not accept the decree of the Council of Chalcedon in 451 about the two natures of Christ. For this reason they were called Monophysites and the Eastern Orthodox/Catholics were called Dyophysites. The Oriental Churches today prefer the term Miaphysite.

Basically, the Dyophsite (Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic) position is that in Christ the divine nature and human nature are united in one person; the Miaphysite position is that in Christ divinity and humanity are united in one nature.

Only centuries after the schism at Chalcedon did the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics part ways over (among other things) the Roman Catholic addition of the word filioque ("and from the Son") to the Creed. The Roman Catholic position is that the Creed is equally Orthodox without or without the filioque, that the filioque is merely an elaboration and not a change in meaning. The Eastern Orthodox position is that the filioque is heretical, but it wasn't really one of the central issues in the schism between East and West. At the time of the schism, the Orthodox were, for instance, equally concerned about the Catholic use of unleavened bread in the Eucharist. In fact the Eastern Churches accept as Orthodox saints people like St. Edward the Martyr, St. Ludmila, and St. Wenceslas, who said the Creed with the filioque -- though maintaining that what was understandable and acceptable in the 10th century before the issue had been thoroughly explained is not understandable or acceptable today.

 

[Katzpur]

Sadly we do have Bahai fundamentalists living and breathign today...

Wow! From the little bit I know about the Baha'i Faith, that pretty much sounds like an oxymoron to me. :yes:

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Well, bahai is an offshoot of Islam.

Actually, no!

The Baha'i Faith sprang from the Babi Faith, which in turn sprang from Islam.

But it's an independant religion no more connected to Islam than Christianity is to Judaism!

<quote>It has a funny history.</quote>

Really?

News to me (and I've been Baha'i nearly 38 years)!

Funny how?

<quote>Sadly we do have Bahai fundamentalists living and breathing today.[/quote]

Not insofar as I know!

Baha'is are unified in matters of faith, so there are no divisions into "fundamentalists" or any other subgroup! Indeed, any such accusations probably stem from someone who isn't Baha'i or otherwise isn't truly famliar with us.

Peace,

Bruce