Oregon Shooter was Mormon?!

[kashmir]

Default mormon clothing? I think you might want to educate yourself on what you are talking about. Modesty is a standard that is stressed greatly within Mormon culture:

https://www.lds.org/topics/modesty?lang=eng

You can also see the teaching aimed directly at youth here:

https://www.lds.org/youth/for-the-strength-of-youth?lang=eng

The 'default' clothing you are referring to is probably the underwear, which you don't get until you go on a mission or get married, but the mission age has been lowered recently, so members as young as 18 and 19 can now get it. This underwear is worn the rest of your life. All of it. Under everything you wear except a swimsuit. And in my opinion, it is the ugliest thing I've ever seen.



This is one article, and I've stated multiple times that I'm interested to see if this is the case (pressure from Mormonism). I'm not stating it as a fact. Have you even been reading what I've been writing or am I writing to a brick wall again?




Most TBM's (True Blue Mormons) support owning guns and the military, I'm not sure of your point.



Maybe, maybe not. This was a UK publication, and typically overseas publications don't get the cultural issues in the US, especially that of a US-born religion.



What point? You don't seem to have one other than not reading what I've actually written and telling me I'm wrong on my opinion and a hypothetical idea.

You want everyone to agree with you and have no intentions on expanding beyond that.
You keep saying you are not blaming him being a mormon, but everything you say is about your negativity about them.
I showed you what the article has and doesn't have, and you seem to not even care about what the facts says.

You are determined and stuck on the he is a mormon thing.
That is all that matters to you, nothing else does.
Not even the media on all shooters seems to mean a thing to you.

I am done.
You are the brick wall, not me, I discuss all the sides of your arguments, you will not even address mine or anyone elses unless it agrees with you.
All the stuff people say that conclude you might be wrong, you dismiss completely.
That is being completely bias :yes:
Yet you still hold to that you want to know if it is or not is the mormon strictness that helped him snap.

You even worked in his love for guns and war games as being a mormon thing too
That is crazyess

 

[Nymphs]

I think that is a valid enough reason for your interest. I was also a Mormon at one time. Were you raised in Mormonism or did you convert?

Thank you.

Born and raised into it. Married in the temple too.

 

[Nymphs]

You want everyone to agree with you and have no intentions on expanding beyond that.

Where have I said that? You really need to stop attacking me personally and actually focus on what is being said. Unless you have a quote where I say I want everyone to agree with me, you are flat-out wrong...again.

You keep saying you are not blaming him being a mormon, but everything you say is about your negativity about them.

Not true. In fact, I said that Katzpur (a Mormon) would be a great reference for you getting to know more about Mormonism (as your facts are severely lacking) and referenced the Mormon subforum here on RF as a reference. How is that negative? For reference here is where I said that so you don't forget:

I suggest you get a primer in Mormonism before you start talking about it like you know what you are talking about. Katzpur is a great reference for this, and you can also ask as many questions as you would like in the Mormon DIR subforum here on RF. Here is a link:

Latter-day Saints DIR - Religious Education Forum

P.S. Deacon in Christianity means something completely different than in Mormonism. Just an FYI.

I do speak about Mormonism, and my experience with the culture of it was mainly negative. If someone brings up an example in Mormonism where I had a positive experience, I will recount it.

I showed you what the article has and doesn't have, and you seem to not even care about what the facts says.

I care, but the fact is this is just one article, and a UK one at that. Are you really telling me this particular story from this particular publication has all the information we need on the subject?

You are determined and stuck on the he is a mormon thing.

For the sake of this thread, yes. I was a Mormon, this is of interest to me. You seem to be stuck that I have my own opinion on things which is contrary to yours.

That is all that matters to you, nothing else does.
Not even the media on all shooters seems to mean a thing to you.

What are you talking about?

I am done.
You are the brick wall, not me, I discuss all the sides of your arguments, you will not even address mine or anyone elses unless it agrees with you.
All the stuff people say that conclude you might be wrong, you dismiss completely.
That is being completely bias :yes:
Yet you still hold to that you want to know if it is or not is the mormon strictness that helped him snap. :yes:

And me wanting to know this is a problem?

You even worked in his love for guns and war games as being a mormon thing too
That is crazyess

It isn't crazy -- most Mormons that are TBM's (true believers) support the military and owning guns. It isn't crazy, it is a fact. Just a plain and simple one at that. You are the one drawing conclusions from my words which I haven't said at all.

 

[Nymphs]

Not my point at all.

A Mormon teenager shot some people, why did he shoot those people? Was it his family? His faith? A combination of both? Or none of the above. You should know better than to assume I think like that.

I'm going to quote myself again, for those who have decided not to read the entire thread. Some people think I'm blaming Mormonism (I'm not), or saying the Mormon Church caused him to kill (I'm not). I'm curious to see if any of the pressure he felt to act in violence came from his faith. If it turns out it is none, that's great, if it turns out it is because of his faith -- let's have a discussion.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Maybe he was intrigued by the Danites and wanted to emulate them.

 

[Katzpur]

I am going by what Nyph said, read what she said about the strictness.
Plus I will admit, i assume they do have default clothing, google mormon, they are all wearing white dress shirts and ties, all have dark slacks.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mor...qSyATQ4oGQDA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=653

His dad is also a deacon, they are divorced, the other deacon never said a thing about the kid being an active church member.
As I have said, nothing what so ever leads me to believe him being in a strict mormon lifestyle that Nyph is suggesting.

edit
Facebook page shows interests

On his Facebook page, Jared Padgett listed 14 apps and games he favored, including the "first-person shooter survival horror" game Area 51 and the apocalyptic adventure game Prototype, as well as the military-themed games Halo 4 and Call of Duty.

He also "liked"the Benchmade Knife Co., the Karambit Tactical Knives Co. and the Remington Arms Co., as well as a U.S. Military page and an M4 assault rifles page.

If this kid was a deacon in the LDS Church, it essentially means nothing more than that he was between 12 and 16 years old and attended church regularly with his dad. His dad, incidentally, is not a deacon but an elder, though that's really neither here nor there. Most LDS boys from practicing LDS families become deacons at the age of 12. It's more or less a rite of passage for the average Mormon boy. While one would hope that these young boys would appreciate what this means, realistically, it's probably not high on the list of things most 12-year-old boys see as important. One thing for sure is that it doesn't mean that he was at all devout. At 14 and 15 years old, kids are still pretty much under their parents' thumbs, whether the parents are religious or not. I can appreciate that there would likely be friction between a kid who has no interest in religion and parents who are very religious, but to suggest that he was suffering from the stress over trying to be perfect is pretty far-fetched in my opinion. From everything I have read about Jared, he was a troubled kid with an unnatural fascination with violence. The fact that he was Mormon is really more a coincidence than anything else.

Oh, one other quick point... The white shirts and ties are typical Sunday dress. Outside of church, Jared would have dressed like any other boy his age.

 

[Katzpur]

Maybe he was intrigued by the Danites and wanted to emulate them.

More than likely, he wouldn't have had a clue who the Danites were.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

More than likely, he wouldn't have had a clue who the Danites were.

And how do you know that is the case?

 

[Katzpur]

And how do you know that is the case?

Well, I didn't say I knew for sure. I said "more than likely." The Danites are actually far better known among non-Mormons than they are among Mormons -- probably because they were a vigilante group that provided a lot of fodder for polemics, propoganda, and especially folklore. Their influence was actually never as significant as non-Mormons seem to think it was. I'm 65-years old and am pretty darned knowledgable about the religion I've had throughout my life. I hadn't heard of the Danites myself until I was over 30 years old, maybe even close to 40. And trust me, I probably know more about the fringe element of Mormonism than most Mormons do. I'd be willing to bet that not even 2 or 3 Mormon teenagers in 100 would know the first thing about the Danites.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I don't think his faith or lack thereof matters at all. For all the disagreements I have with what I know of the basics of Mormon beliefs, I don't think the religion encourages such violence, so it seems to me that it would be unfair to blame the religion for this even if the shooter were Mormon.

 

[Katzpur]

Then you haven't been in a psychiatric ward with several other Mormon youth, have you?

No I haven't.

The pressure to perform, to be the perfect "Molly Mormon" or "Peter Priesthood" is real.

I agree, it can be. On the other hand, I fail to see how this pressure can translate to murder, particularly to murder of people who were in no way to blame for the situation.

While I never had serious thoughts about hurting other people, at times I entertained fleeting thoughts of violence -- and I know I'm not the only one. Instead, I turned it inward and tried to take my own life because I was so tired of trying to be something I knew I would never be. I just gave up because I felt I couldn't do it anymore.

You attempted suicide? OMG, when was that? I seriously feel bad for you, and it's not my intention to try to dismiss your personal challenges. I just know that neither of my kids is LDS any more and they didn't seem to have had any problems simply walking away from it. I just don't get it. I've known dozens of young people who left the Church -- either officially or unofficially -- once they were adults, and none of them attempted suicide.

While my reaction was more the typical in the psych wards I attended, there were also people in there for incredibly violent acts. Again, I'm not blaming the Mormon Church for this young man's actions, but you can't seriously tell me there isn't an immense amount of pressure on Mormons to live up to all the ideals and try to be 'perfect'.

Well, anyone who feels that kind of pressure has obviously missed the boat. Mormonism is a demanding faith but I've never felt it to be a burden. As a matter of fact, I know I'm a better person for having had the teachings of Mormonism in my life than I would be otherwise. Is the Church perfect? Of course not. But it typically doesn't contribute towards mental illness.

You can find several studies and articles that point to Utah having a higher-than-normal depression rate as well as a higher-than-normal antidepressant rate.

Two Studies Find Depression Widespread in Utah - ABC News

Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use - Los Angeles Times

Statistics like that aren't always what they appear to be. A lot of non-Mormons self-medicate with booze when they're depressed. For people who don't see that as an option, antidepressants are an acceptable alternative.

I'm glad you have never felt that immense pressure, but just because you haven't doesn't mean hundreds, if not thousands haven't. If there wasn't this immense pressure, you wouldn't have the stories that I've read. Whenever you get a religion that literally takes over every aspect of your life, you will find things like this. The Mormon Church isn't the only one.

And I'm sorry you have felt it. It's too bad you couldn't have just told your parents and/or spouse that you didn't want to be LDS any more. That would evidently have saved you a lot of heartache and a lot of still unresolved frustrations.

 

[kashmir]

If this kid was a deacon in the LDS Church, it essentially means nothing more than that he was between 12 and 16 years old and attended church regularly with his dad. His dad, incidentally, is not a deacon but an elder, though that's really neither here nor there. Most LDS boys from practicing LDS families become deacons at the age of 12. It's more or less a rite of passage for the average Mormon boy. While we would hope that these young boys would appreciate what this means, it's probably not high on the list of things most 12-year-old boys see as important. One thing for sure is that it doesn't mean that he was at all devout. At 14 and 15 years old, kids are still pretty much under their parents' thumbs, whether the parents are religious or not. I can appreciate that there would likely be friction between a kid who has no interest in religion and parents who are very religious, but to suggest that he was suffering from the stress over trying to be perfect is pretty far-fetched in my opinion. From everything I have read about Jared, he was a troubled kid with an unnatural fascination with violence. The fact that he was Mormon is really more a coincidence than anything else.

Oh, one other quick point... The white shirts and ties are typical Sunday dress. Outside of church, Jared would have dressed like any other boy his age.

I appreciate the explanation, I also agree, I checked a few articles and the elder from the church clearly said the family itself had problems, he didn't really say much about the kid himself, I respect him for that too, to not air dirty laundry.
I also believe if it was the church that was his issue, with the pressures, wouldn't he have shot them up?
Back to what I said, going to school is the trend for some reason and as I said, I think I know why, the media treats the shooters like celebs, the kids see that, and want to be a "hero" too and not only is the school itself a huge part of it, the kids are in a comfort zone there, its why they don't seem to just pick random places.
This also goes back to the church, the kid knew it as well, but did not go there did he?

In other shootings besides schools, its always the place they have issues with, their job, the bank that took their house, the courthouse, their ex's house, etc.
Again, the kid did not go to the church, he did what all the other kids did, went to the school.

Why does it seem that no one else cares about the media exploiting this type of thing?
frankly, they need to stop, completely.
This type of thing needs to be kept out of the media completely.

Do you know that trucker freight being hijacked is a huge problem?
They keep it off the news for a reason, they do not want the world to know how easy it is to do, I used to be a trucker, I know this stuff.

 

[Awoon]

Interesting thread.