On the nature of the Black Flame

[mystic64]

I actually think that other animals do possess that unique essence, it would be rather arrogant of us humans to think that we are the only ones blessed with the Dark Gift. The problem may be in their present ability to really communicate it and actualize it. Perhaps Evolution may eventually provide the means.

quote=wikipedia, The Temple of Set
"Set is described as having given humanity, through the means of non-natural evolution, the "Black Flame" or the "Gift of Set"; a questioning intellect which sets humans apart from nature and gives us "isolate self-consciousness" and the possibility to attain divinity.[4][12]"

"A questioning intellect that sets humans apart." And the "Black Flame" or the "Gift of Set" is this questioning intellect. And because of this the possibility is opened up for one to attain "divinity". As a mystic I find this interesting because my questioning intellect is what has made me an experienced mystic. Ask and you shall recieve and my goal for the most part has been information and union with the Loving Divine. And the information recieved was the result of a questioning intellect.

So Adramelek I guess my question is, "Why does eating from the Tree of Good and Evil have anything to do with a questioning intellect?" Based on my experience as a mystic true knowledge only comes to one as something that can be understood when one quits eating from the Tree of Good and Evil. The understanding of true knowledge is only sidetracked by the concept of good and evil. So it seems to me that the first thing that one needs to do should they wish to attain "divinity" as a direction that they would like to go, that they should first quit eating from the Tree of Good and Evil because it is not about good and evil, it is about moving in the directions that you would like to go.

And Adramelek there is this other part, "Lucifer is said to have told Adam and Eve that if they ate from the Tree of Good and Evil that they would be come as the gods are and live forever. And then it is said that God said, "No." And then kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden because they would then be eating from the Tree of Good and Evil and also from the Tree of Life. So my next question to you Adramelek is, "How does the Left hand Path take one back to the Tree of Life?" I can see how the "Black Flame" as a gift from Set can take one back to the Tree of Life because a questioning intellect can take you away from the Tree of Good and Evil as a side effect to knowledge and understanding, but that wouldn't be a Right hand Path or a Left hand Path, it would just be a path.

And based on my experience as a mystic black is not good or bad, it is just stepping into the "unknown" which of course scares the pee wad out of a lot of folks so they condsider it bad. And as a mystic with a questioning intellect I spend a lot of time in the black of the "unknown". Stepping into the black flame if you wish. And just for the sake of discussion I do have some training in the mysteries and magik of the ancient Egypians including the snake and the bird, the eyes of Ra and Horus, and the wings of Isis. And their approaches to the physical immortality/life extention mind exercises and some of the technology.

Adramelek, I find the possibilities of your Setian (Temple of Set?) beliefs very interesting.

 

[Liu]

@Adramelek: Then you are the first Setian I found openly admitting this.

The difference between our views actually seems to be the cosmology, or rather the direction from which we look. You (or Setians per se) seem to look at the world from an almost physicalist perspective, into which you add the concept of consciousness/the black flame as something that only came to it later when Set somehow came into being.
I tend to assume that consciousness (of one kind or another) is the only thing in existence and that it has always existed, but that it can be either more or less aware of itself and that this self-awareness is related to that which enables us to think abstractly and to come closer to understanding our existence. To formulate it a bit more poetically, the part of Satan which you call Set is what needs to awaken within us so we may see.
I do see flaws with both perspectives, the case isn't closed to me - but I guess that gets too off-topic.

So, the question is, does the black flame bring consciousness per se or just self-awareness? (some people don't make a difference between that, though)

You mentioned that my worldview would be the more common one - in the way how I don't separate reason from nature, it might be, but in the way that I consider nature a part of consciousness, and not the other way round, this probably is not that common.

@mystic64: I hope you also accept a partial answer from a not-Setian. If such is not welcome in this sub-forum, I'll stop it.
Your comment is very interesting and I hope to also read other people's replies to it.
But, regarding the tree of good and evil, I found it confusing as well to see LHPer adopt this myth. Our tree of good and evil could only be one that shows us the truth about good and evil, namely their subjectivity.

 

[Adramelek]

@Liu and @mystic64 : lets not get too confused here, my use of Adam and Eve's "sin" is just a metaphor to help illustrate man's separation from nature i.e. "God". The concept of the Gift of Set, the Black Flame within both human beings and other animals is quite fascinating to me. I hold a theory on this. When Set came first to this world he infused His Essence within that species which he thought would be the most receptive of it which turned out to be that which would become humankind, hence, pre-humans were the primary focus of the "Black Flame Working". An after effect or by-product was that other species also received off shoots or sort of residual sparks from this initial Working and would, through evolution, also develop certain aspects of consciousness and higher intellectual thinking.

 

[Adramelek]

A definition of the Gift of Set that is the Black Flame from the "First Part of the Word of Set":

"I am within and beyond you,
The Highest of Life,
In majesty greater than the forces of the Universe;
Whose eyes are the Face of the Sun and the Dark Fire of Set;
Who fashioned your intelligence as his own and reached forth to exalt you;
Who entrusted to you dignity of consciousness;
Who opened your eyes that you might know beauty;
Who brought you the key to knowledge of all lesser things;
And who enshrined in you the Will to Come Into Being.
Lift your voices, then,
And recognize the Highest of Life who thus proclaims your triumph;
Whose being is beyond natural life and death;
Who came as a flame to your world and enlightened your desire for perfection and truth.
Arise thus in your glory,
Behold the genius of your creation,
And be prideful of being,
For I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life."
​

 

[mystic64]

A definition of the Gift of Set that is the Black Flame from the "First Part of the Word of Set":

"I am within and beyond you,
The Highest of Life,
In majesty greater than the forces of the Universe;
Whose eyes are the Face of the Sun and the Dark Fire of Set;
Who fashioned your intelligence as his own and reached forth to exalt you;
Who entrusted to you dignity of consciousness;
Who opened your eyes that you might know beauty;
Who brought you the key to knowledge of all lesser things;
And who enshrined in you the Will to Come Into Being.
Lift your voices, then,
And recognize the Highest of Life who thus proclaims your triumph;
Whose being is beyond natural life and death;
Who came as a flame to your world and enlightened your desire for perfection and truth.
Arise thus in your glory,
Behold the genius of your creation,
And be prideful of being,
For I am the same - I who am the Highest of Life."
​

Adramelek, I am inclined to interact with you because I find you interesting and you have knowledge and an approach to something that I have maybe explored in some way. So I am curious . And I have nothing to preach or promote, religion or otherwise. And as a mystic I am a pure explorer. The enjoyment that I get as a mystic is not so much the knowledge as it is the adventure of exploring. Now with that said, Set as an ancient conscious entity that is willing to interact with humans is something that I find interesting. And when it comes to understanding these really big (in every sense of the word) entities that have been around for a while words generally fall short, but words are what we have to work with so oh will.

So what we have here is the God the Creator in whatever form that one wishes to percieve Him that has created Humankind and we have an older entity (Set) that preceded the God the Creator. And this older entity Set is also willing to interact with Humankind. Thus Humankind has access to two powerful ancient entities, one of which is their creator and one of which is not their creator. With the God the Creator being a god and Set not being a god.

So I guess my first question is, "Did Set tamper with the God the Creator's creation with or without permission from the God the Creator?" My next question is, "Can you interact with Set on a one to one bases? Or does Set just give you a questioning intellect and you are on you own to sink of swim?" My third question is, "Is there any conflict between Set and the God the Creator? Or does Set just present another option?" And last but maybe not least, it would seem to science as we know it today that a questioning intellect as a genetic mutation would have a higher survival potental than a non questioning intellect and therefore would be selected for, in an evolutionary sense, whether Set or the God the Creator were involved or not. "maybe?"

Adramelek, I would like to run this by you if you are willing to be patient with me. Based on my explorations there seems to be three main ancient forces out there with an active conscousness that predate Creation, the Source, Set, and the God the Creator. And both Set and the God the Creator were birthed by the Source with Set being the oldest. The origin of the Source is is lost because it is so ancient and it has no memory of its birth or creation and the Source is an automated mind reality that does not have a questioning intellect. The source also is an energy source that all immortals are attached to and feed off of. One can not be an immortal without being attached or without maintaining an attachment to the Source. In the ancient Egyptian mysteries "Ra" was the symbol for the Source. And these mysteries taught veriest ways to attach one's self to the Source. And one of the ways was to bring the snake (male kundalini) and the bird (female kundalini) up into the eye of Ra. And the energy that one recieved from the source was what was called the "ankh" and the shape of the symbol of the ankh was also use in veriest ways to create simple electronic gaggetry that attached one to the source. My fourth question Adramelek, "Is any of this Ancient Egypian stuff that I have mentioned a part to the mysteries that you study as a Follower of Set? I ask this as an extra question because you seem to have indicated that there is an ancient Egyptian connection to your beliefs. If not then we will just forget about what I said . Ok? It was just a side curiousity to me.

 

[Adramelek]

So what we have here is the God the Creator in whatever form that one wishes to percieve Him that has created Humankind and we have an older entity (Set) that preceded the God the Creator. And this older entity Set is also willing to interact with Humankind. Thus Humankind has access to two powerful ancient entities, one of which is their creator and one of which is not their creator. With the God the Creator being a god and Set not being a god.

So I guess my first question is, "Did Set tamper with the God the Creator's creation with or without permission from the God the Creator?" My next question is, "Can you interact with Set on a one to one bases? Or does Set just give you a questioning intellect and you are on you own to sink of swim?" My third question is, "Is there any conflict between Set and the God the Creator? Or does Set just present another option?" And last but maybe not least, it would seem to science as we know it today that a questioning intellect as a genetic mutation would have a higher survival potental than a non questioning intellect and therefore would be selected for, in an evolutionary sense, whether Set or the God the Creator were involved or not. "maybe?"

Mystic I think you misunderstand me. I use the term "God" only as a metaphor for the non-thinking mechanism that is the Order of the Cosmos. In my view there is no "Creator God of the Universe". Therefor, Set would not ask for permission to confound its laws (not that he would ask anyway lol). Black Magick in essence is the deliberate willful confounding and alteration of natural law. As for the origins of the Universe, they are just as much a mystery as are the origins of the Prince of Darkness Him Self (Set).

I do think that Set does interact with his disciples (Elect) on a one to one bases, but it would be very rare that Set would ever deliberately intervene in the life of the Setian, maybe once or twice in a lifetime. Set has given us all the tools we need to forge our own way in the great Work of Life. There is a saying though that "if you think of Set he will think of you".

As for the theory on genetic mutation, that could very well be the case.

 

[mystic64]

Mystic I think you misunderstand me. I use the term "God" only as a metaphor for the non-thinking mechanism that is the Order of the Cosmos. In my view there is no "Creator God of the Universe". Therefor, Set would not ask for permission to confound its laws (not that he would ask anyway lol). Black Magick in essence is the deliberate willful confounding and alteration of natural law. As for the origins of the Universe, they are just as much a mystery as are the origins of the Prince of Darkness Him Self (Set).

I do think that Set does interact with his disciples (Elect) on a one to one bases, but it would be very rare that Set would ever deliberately intervene in the life of the Setian, maybe once or twice in a lifetime. Set has given us all the tools we need to forge our own way in the great Work of Life. There is a saying though that "if you think of Set he will think of you".

As for the theory on genetic mutation, that could very well be the case.

Ok Adramelek, and thank you for your input!

 

[Adramelek]

"Who came as a flame to your world and enlightened your desire for perfection and truth."
'The Word of Set'

​

 

[Daelach]

The Set logo from Stargate is really nice - got it on my motorcycle. The enhancement with the glowing red eye fits well!

 

[1137]

@Liu and @mystic64 : lets not get too confused here, my use of Adam and Eve's "sin" is just a metaphor to help illustrate man's separation from nature i.e. "God". The concept of the Gift of Set, the Black Flame within both human beings and other animals is quite fascinating to me. I hold a theory on this. When Set came first to this world he infused His Essence within that species which he thought would be the most receptive of it which turned out to be that which would become humankind, hence, pre-humans were the primary focus of the "Black Flame Working". An after effect or by-product was that other species also received off shoots or sort of residual sparks from this initial Working and would, through evolution, also develop certain aspects of consciousness and higher intellectual thinking.

Apologies for joining so late. It seems that you are saying that life on earth received the Gift of Set a long time ago, stages back in evolution. Is this correct? How long ago? If this is the case, could other species have risen (and fell) who were intelligent and as advanced as we are (or will be)? Finally, could this happen elsewhere and possibly to other species?

 

[Adramelek]

Apologies for joining so late. It seems that you are saying that life on earth received the Gift of Set a long time ago, stages back in evolution. Is this correct? How long ago? If this is the case, could other species have risen (and fell) who were intelligent and as advanced as we are (or will be)? Finally, could this happen elsewhere and possibly to other species?

Greetings 1137,

It is my personal opinion, through my own understanding that the Ageless Intelligence of the Universe that is Set, Came Into Being aeons before the very development of our own solar system, but his/its origins are unknown, perhaps even to him/it-Self. It is quite possible that the Set entity did bestow His essence within other species who may have risen and fallen throughout the Universe, not just here on Earth but in the long past on other worlds. Yes, I think the Gift of Set could have been enshrined within other species present and past throughout the aeons. It is the Setian position that the Gift of the Black Flame is the very result of the human condition as a unique intelligent, independent form of life on Earth within the Universe.