On or Off the Cross?

[fromthe heart]

Anyone, regardless of their religious beliefs would feel compassion for Jesus in the movie. It was heart-wrenching. But, don't go too far. Many people have suffered worst fates than his. We all have to cope with dying (albeit most without the torture and suffering and humiliation). But, sincerely, what is pitiful about our souls?

I know exactly what you are meaning to say about the suffering that we as people have done...but Jesus was put through ALl our sins on the cross...He was pure like that of a small baby...He was perfect in everyway...We are pitiful in comparison to Him...we can't go one week without telling some half truth,watching something that we shouldn't allow our eyes to see, our feet take us in places we should not go and in our mind we can do far worse than that...we don't have pureness such as Christ in anyway...not one person who has walked this earth before or since could equal the love that was displayed on that cross for such as we are.

 

[Faint]

I've always found it interesting that Christians have so much reverence for an ancient torture device. This goes along with my theory that a lot of Christians are masochistic at heart, and often define themselves through their own suffering. I suppose the cross is fitting in this respect. It's also worth mentioning that crosses are very popular at BDSM clubs. I saw a girl tied to one a couple weeks ago.

 

[Ormiston]

I know exactly what you are meaning to say about the suffering that we as people have done...but Jesus was put through ALl our sins on the cross...He was pure like that of a small baby...He was perfect in everyway...We are pitiful in comparison to Him...we can't go one week without telling some half truth,watching something that we shouldn't allow our eyes to see, our feet take us in places we should not go and in our mind we can do far worse than that...we don't have pureness such as Christ in anyway...not one person who has walked this earth before or since could equal the love that was displayed on that cross for such as we are.

Not to get too far off course here, but I think we as people are perfect with our flaws. However, I can respect the admiration Christians have for someone who would sacrifice themselves for those they love. I just don't think we are pitiful is all. And, any man/woman who gives their life for someone else is equally deserving of praise no matter how many they save because it is an absolute sacrifice and they gain nothing from it regardless of the numbers. I hope I'm still making sense....I'm exhausted.

 

[nutshell]

I've always found it interesting that Christians have so much reverence for an ancient torture device. This goes along with my theory that a lot of Christians are masochistic at heart, and often define themselves through their own suffering. I suppose the cross is fitting in this respect. It's also worth mentioning that crosses are very popular at BDSM clubs. I saw a girl tied to one a couple weeks ago.

The reverence isn't for an ancient torture device. The reverence is for Jesus Christ who saved this world from sin and death. I don't presume to speak for other Christians, but for LDS, we believe in the Living Christ and celebrate his life and the life that awaits us. We're not caught up in pain and suffering.

 

[Faint]

The reverence isn't for an ancient torture device. The reverence is for Jesus Christ who saved this world from sin and death. I don't presume to speak for other Christians, but for LDS, we believe in the Living Christ and celebrate his life and the life that awaits us. We're not caught up in pain and suffering.

I think I read that LDS folk don't use the cross as a symbol. But I know that a lot of your group still talk about how people are "sinful" by nature, and have a need to be "redeemed" by a Christ figure, otherwise they might be "punished". All of this is very BDSM, but more to the point, I tend to hear a lot of Christians (LDS or otherwise) talk about their problems in dealing with such primal human emotions like lust and anger in terms of how "difficult" it is to avoid such temptation. Lust alone seems to cause a lot of Christians anguish and inner turmoil because they want to give in to their desire, but they also want to do what their book says is right. Since the religion doesn't make sense in any logical way, I can only assume that these people enjoy tormenting themselves. Otherwise they might get over it, and simply yield to temptation.

 

[nutshell]

I think I read that LDS folk don't use the cross as a symbol. But I know that a lot of your group still talk about how people are "sinful" by nature, and have a need to be "redeemed" by a Christ figure, otherwise they might be "punished". All of this is very BDSM, but more to the point, I tend to hear a lot of Christians (LDS or otherwise) talk about their problems in dealing with such primal human emotions like lust and anger in terms of how "difficult" it is to avoid such temptation. Lust alone seems to cause a lot of Christians anguish and inner turmoil because they want to give in to their desire, but they also want to do what their book says is right. Since the religion doesn't make sense in any logical way, I can only assume that these people enjoy tormenting themselves. Otherwise they might get over it, and simply yield to temptation.

The physical desires you mention are part of what we call the natural man. In our fallen state, it is natural to have these urges and satisfying the urge can be gratifying.

However, LDS and some other Christians believe part of experiencing this life is learning how to overcome the physical and embrace the spiritual. I'm not sure tormenting is the right word (at least for me), but I recognize the greater rewards for putting off the natural man and giving in to the Spirit. I'm not sure what you mean by "religion doesn't make sense in any logical way." I am an analytical person and it makes complete sense to me. If you mean there is no empirical physical evidence of the truthfullness of religion then you're right. But like I said, we look to the spiritual, not physical.

 

[Ormiston]

BDSM!? Now this conversation is getting interesting! I think the cross started off as simply a symbol that showed allegience to a particular belief or group much like the fish-in-the-sand story. Or possibly a middle-finger at the Romans. I must agree with Faint though on one subject: the idea that we as men/women are pitiful. Can someone explain this to me without bringing sin into the picture? What is pitiful about us? What is wrong with having lust or greed or hate? I find it beautiful (maybe I'm the one with the problem). And what is so special about Jesus being perfect? I don't find him perfect. So he never sinned...WHY is that the Christian definition of perfection?

 

[Aqualung]

I think the fact that christ was resurected (symbolised by the empty cross) is more important than the fact that he was crucified. But, then again, I don't see why having the symbol of the cross is all that important in the first place.

 

[Ormiston]

I think the fact that christ was resurected (symbolised by the empty cross) is more important than the fact that he was crucified. But, then again, I don't see why having the symbol of the cross is all that important in the first place.

It does seem to empower people. But it can be a crutch as well in my eyes.

 

[Aqualung]

It does seem to empower people.

I'm not really sure why, though :areyoucra

 

[Ormiston]

I'm not really sure why, though :areyoucra

Come on! To belong to something bigger. To have an allegience. To always remind one that there is nothing to fear. Symbols, titles, patches, jewelry, etc....people love that stuff!

 

[nutshell]

Well, I believe it represents their beliefs and commitments with God. It is a constant reminder to them of who there are. In fact, I believe the Orthodox church teaches one who has covenanted with God must have a cross on his or her person.

In this way, I find it very similar to the LDS garment, but that's a whole 'nother discussion (which is not for this thread).

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think the cross is used as a popular symbol for Christ because it is a defining moment in Christian theology that sets it apart from most popular religions. I say "popular" because there are quite a few dying-and-resurrected savior gods in many other religions, too, albeit these religions do not have the same kind of following as Christianity has.




Religions usually have a symbol that 1) reminds it's followers of it's mission/ethics, and 2) visually represents it's unique identity. Jesus taught the beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount, and these stories in the Gospels are obviously inspiring to read and as examples to live.............yet, his teachings aren't that much different than many other prophets and enlightened beings that graced this Earth.



An olive branch as a symbol for Christianity would be too vague. I could use the olive branch, myself, yet my beliefs are vastly different from most Christian denominations. We aren't exactly in the same camp, there, after the peace and harmony speeches.



A symbol for Christ's resurrection is also, visually, too vague. The cross, despite it's painful resemblence, is specific and represents more than the physical death of the Christian savior.



I may not share the same beliefs theologically as our fellow Christians, and even though I left the religion more than a decade ago, I have much respect for the people who follow Christ. I learned much about life, the universe, and everything when I was Christian.



Peace,
Mystic

 

[CaptainXeroid]

The reverence isn't for an ancient torture device. The reverence is for Jesus Christ who saved this world from sin and death...

Thank you for this sincere response to a flippant and utterly ridiculous post.

I don't think that we should worry about it. It is following the teachings of Jesus that matters.
He didn't say, "If you love me, you will keep an image of me on [or off] the cross." He said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." John 14.15

Frubals for a most excellent point.:162:

IMHO, we as Christians should not put each other down for using a cross that does or does not display the crucifixion or not displaying a cross at all. Recalling another Christian symbol, we have bigger fish to fry.