On Bhakti

[Viraja]

ISKCON literature and videos are quite useful. I have been watching their videos on evolution of bhakti.

As I have always been curious to know about how and how much bhakti can evolve in one lifetime, I was searching for literature on this matter.

Bhakti is said to grow in stages. From so-called Vaidhi stage to Raganuga stage and then Ragathmika stage. If interested, you can google these terms.

Y'day I watched a video from an ISKCON monk on how bhakti grows from early-on neophyte stages to various modes or rather 'moods'..... known as dasya, mithra, Vathsalya and finally Mathurya bhavas. These stages each denote a particular mood and involves the practitioner's involvement with his deity in that particular mood.

As it turns out, a profound sadhaka experiences these 'stages'...... which means, all depends on practice of bhakti every day.

I have good amount of bhakti to Krishna but I am not so evolved to get goosebumps when uttered his holy name or to produce tears when praying............ but I do feel the love.

That said, I wonder if anyone really felt their bhakti evolve.... over a period of time. As in starting as someone merely curious about their deity, and now a full-fledged devotee who can and does shed tears upon worship. I wonder how long it took to grow into a pure devotee from that of a neophyte.

If anyone here had their bhakti evolve, kindly share your experience in this thread. Thanks.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe mine has evolved, but can't be sure, as it's hard to remember the early days. For me the key is frequency. I definitely get the tears more frequently than I used to. Consistency, lifestyle, and discipline have all played a role.

I think the idea that some Hindus have that bhakti is just a stage that we all pass through is total nonsense. It might work for others, but not for me.

 

[Viraja]

Thanks for your good reply, Vinayaka ji.

The beauty about bhakti is that superficially I don't feel anything, although when I think of the idea of losing my bhakti (out of non-practice or any other reason), I feel an immediate and deep longing. I guess this is bhakti at work, really. That's why I became curious about it. I would like to have a mature bhakti but I guess it will take a long time and practice.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thanks for your good reply, Vinayaka ji.

The beauty about bhakti is that superficially I don't feel anything, although when I think of the idea of losing my bhakti (out of non-practice or any other reason), I feel an immediate and deep longing. I guess this is bhakti at work, really. That's why I became curious about it. I would like to have a mature bhakti but I guess it will take a long time and practice.

I generally feel a lot, but maybe it's because I'm still on a pilgrimage 'high'. Thai Pusam here was pretty good too though.

 

[Vinayaka]

@Viraja - here are some more thoughts, after further reflection, There are lots of English words that come to mind when I reflect on it.
As for the desire - longing, calling, need, wanting, beckoning, waiting for
As for the actions - prostration, singing, staring, greeting, recitation of mantras
As for the effects - bliss, awe, joy, love, calmness, stillness,

We bring an offering to God when we go because it opens us up. That can be as simple as a flower, even a grain of rice. But it can also be an entire mala, a large tray of fruit, recitation, bhajan, etc. Many years ago I came upon the visualization of holding a large funnel out in front of yourself (from holding hands open, like you see sometimes in others at temples) and the funnel going to your heart chakra, anahata. It visualizes opening yourself up, and the opposite, in sharp contrast is arms folded. Body language is telling.

While we were on pilgrimage, a friend made malas in my absence, as a friend would do 'chores' or housesit when you're on holidays. He remarked to me afterward, 'Now I get why you like to make malas'. It's because it takes more time, more effort, and hence opens you up more, and for those of us lucky enough to feel it ... indeed it's why we do stuff like that. He got it. Unbeknownst to him I made malas while on pilgrimage. I could not resist. But over there, that place is always filled with flowers. So my humble contribution seemed like nothing, while here in the cold cold northland, it is noticeable.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I would like to have a mature bhakti but I guess it will take a long time and practice.

Bhakti is mature when you do not feel need for it. Your deity is always in your heart.

 

[Viraja]

@Viraja - here are some more thoughts, after further reflection, There are lots of English words that come to mind when I reflect on it.
As for the desire - longing, calling, need, wanting, beckoning, waiting for
As for the actions - prostration, singing, staring, greeting, recitation of mantras
As for the effects - bliss, awe, joy, love, calmness, stillness,

We bring an offering to God when we go because it opens us up. That can be as simple as a flower, even a grain of rice. But it can also be an entire mala, a large tray of fruit, recitation, bhajan, etc. Many years ago I came upon the visualization of holding a large funnel out in front of yourself (from holding hands open, like you see sometimes in others at temples) and the funnel going to your heart chakra, anahata. It visualizes opening yourself up, and the opposite, in sharp contrast is arms folded. Body language is telling.

While we were on pilgrimage, a friend made malas in my absence, as a friend would do 'chores' or housesit when you're on holidays. He remarked to me afterward, 'Now I get why you like to make malas'. It's because it takes more time, more effort, and hence opens you up more, and for those of us lucky enough to feel it ... indeed it's why we do stuff like that. He got it. Unbeknownst to him I made malas while on pilgrimage. I could not resist. But over there, that place is always filled with flowers. So my humble contribution seemed like nothing, while here in the cold cold northland, it is noticeable.

Sorry about replying so late to this profound message, Vinayaka ji. I guess when I read it formerly, I was not having much thoughts in reciprocation to make a valid reply.

I have been thinking about this reply of yours. I started chanting, all the time while chanting, visualizing taking a handful of flowers from my heart and offering them at the feet of my murti, as my offering for each turn of the mantra. This is purely because of your input. For one, it helps me keep focused instead of wandering thoughts here and there and then doing a lip-service japa.

Many thanks.

 

[Viraja]

Bhakti is mature when you do not feel need for it. Your deity is always in your heart.

Of course, that is called 'Raganuga bhakti' in Gaudiya terms and it takes a long time to become that way.

Practitioners who are more beginners to intermediate on the path as myself are 'Vaidhi' bakthas.

 

[Vinayaka]

Bhakti is mature when you do not feel need for it. Your deity is always in your heart.

In my sampradaya, bhakti is always there. In the beginning it's the primary focus, (well, actually service is before that) and later it is combined with inner work. The idea is that one of the best times to meditate is right after a puja, as the puja sets the scene, so to speak. The overlapping stages of the soul's evolution are charya, kriya, yoga, and jnana. Similarly, the jnani still has charya (seva) to do. (With jnana having a totally different meaning than the usual one that Vedantins have.) My gurus were/are still great bhaktars of Siva. But you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Viraja]

The idea is that one of the best times to meditate is right after a puja, as the puja sets the scene, so to speak.

This is a wonderful practice, Vinayaka ji.

I listen to the lectures of one Indradyumna Swami Maharaja, whose talks always have an uplifting feel for me spiritually. Late in the afternoon, I listen to his lecture series, and then I do japa, the vivid images fill my mind and it is so easy to focus.

 

[Vinayaka]

This is a wonderful practice, Vinayaka ji.

I listen to the lectures of one Indradyumna Swami Maharaja, whose talks always have an uplifting feel for me spiritually. Late in the afternoon, I listen to his lecture series, and then I do japa, the vivid images fill my mind and it is so easy to focus.

My order for sadhana is puja, japa, reading, meditation, and prayaschitta, and Guru bhakti.

 

[Viraja]

My order for sadhana is puja, japa, reading, meditation, and prayaschitta, and Guru bhakti.

Yes, reading..... I should include this in my routine. I've not been into much religious reading lately.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes, reading..... I should include this in my routine. I've not been into much religious reading lately.

My reading is only the daily lessons everyone in my sampradaya studies every day. It's an interesting concept as it literally puts everyone on the same page. Often when I met other members, we can chat about 'today's lesson'.

 

[Viraja]

My reading is only the daily lessons everyone in my sampradaya studies every day. It's an interesting concept as it literally puts everyone on the same page. Often when I met other members, we can chat about 'today's lesson'.

Oh yes. I have been thinking along this line. Like having a friend who is into deep bhakti, and discussing a chapter of devotional material each day............ that will be so uplifting. Hope Krishna blesses me with such a satsang. I can feel how useful and enjoyable this kinda of sharing knowledge could be for someone truly into it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am always in religion.

 

[Vinidra]

I feel like my bhakti is still in the beginning stages. But I will say that after a few years of doing puja and chanting Mother's names (which I really love to do and catch myself doing without even realizing it sometimes), I have become more grateful to her for all the things she's done for me and more mindful of the things I do and say to others. So maybe that means I'm making a little progress, anyway?

 

[Viraja]

I feel like my bhakti is still in the beginning stages. But I will say that after a few years of doing puja and chanting Mother's names (which I really love to do and catch myself doing without even realizing it sometimes), I have become more grateful to her for all the things she's done for me and more mindful of the things I do and say to others. So maybe that means I'm making a little progress, anyway?

Yes I certainly do believe so. Wish you all the best in furthering your bhakti.

 

[Vinayaka]

I feel like my bhakti is still in the beginning stages. But I will say that after a few years of doing puja and chanting Mother's names (which I really love to do and catch myself doing without even realizing it sometimes), I have become more grateful to her for all the things she's done for me and more mindful of the things I do and say to others. So maybe that means I'm making a little progress, anyway?

Progress? I see it like watching a child grow. The day to day growth is barely noticeable, but if you compare now to 10 years back, you might see a difference.

 

[Vinidra]

Yes I certainly do believe so. Wish you all the best in furthering your bhakti.

Thank you, and the same to you!

Progress? I see it like watching a child grow. The day to day growth is barely noticeable, but if you compare now to 10 years back, you might see a difference.

That makes total sense.

 

[Vinayaka]

A further insight ... When bhakti gets duller, one has to up the intensity.