Ok my latest "thing" - I'm, recording it for posterity!

[Northern Lights]

Hello all,

Some may, on reading this post, believe that it belongs somewhere in the Buddhism DIR thread but actually, I am and have been a seeker as long as I can remember, and although I've been aligned closer to Buddhism than anything else over the last 15 years at least - I'm still a seeker more than a Buddhist.

In the last 3 months alone I have flitted around from various Buddhist practices and schools, including a month spent practicing Pure Land (Amida) and even going along to a local Sangha. But Pure Land (or at least Amida Pure Land) told me that I am a useless human, beyond reproach and that my only chance of being 'saved' was through faith in Amida. Nah, I had to walk away from that one.

I've constantly persisted with more mainstream Buddhist practice. Again I've been to local Sanghas, in secular and recently the Dhammakaya tradition here in the UK. But an issue I have had for 16 years now is that sitting meditation practices just don't seem to work for me, or don't seem suited to be at least. I've just never felt I've progressed in any way; no inner peace, no stillness, no greater sense of compassion, no increased perspective, etc. Sitting Meditations are quite physically relaxing while I practice, but 10 minutes after I could be getting angry and worked up by someone's bad driving habits on the way home from the meditation class!

Anyway three days ago, I stumbled across some Nichiren stuff on YouTube. I'd always dismissed it as 'not real Buddhism' (a little like I'd learned to feel about Amida Pure Land), and also had read some alarming things about the SGI organisation. But I came across this website, from this guy in the US who practices Nichiren-Shu sincerely and wholehearedly, but completely independently. I really liked what I saw. I decided to practice for a couple of days. I printed off the Gongyo (2nd and 16th verses of the Lotus Sutra, in Japanese), and with the help of a YouTube pronounciation vid, chanting it each morning and evening, along with some Daimoku chanting ("Namu Myoho Renge Kyo"). I did not really go into this with an open heart but as I am a musical and aural type person (I run a sound engineering business) it seemed fun.

Now 3 days in, my cynicism is really starting to crumble........ after each Gongyo chant I feel fantastic. Revitalized. Fresh. Positive. I feel exactly how I always wanted to feel after sitting meditation, but didn't.

The mild to moderate depression that I've had for 3 months seems lighter, less prevalent. Psychological effects ? Maybe? .... Hey, maybe Nichiren chanting has absolutely no substance whatsoever other than as a distraction meditation ..... but I don't care - it's working. For me, anyway.

I decided to post this here, so that it puts a "mark in the sand" and records this event. If in 3 days time I have moved on to some other flash in the pan practice, then we'll know that the Nichiren practice was just co-inciding with some 'good feelings' that we all inevitably have, even when depressed.

But I have a good feeling. At the end of the day, the reason why in the past I have fallen out of practice habits, is because they've not seemed to benefit me. We all do things that give us some benefit. And we all lose interest things that don't give us any benefit. I feel a strong urge and happiness about my twice or three times daily Nichiren practice - because I feel really great after it. Like the sun is shining inside my body.

WATCH THIS SPACE!

 

[Sees]

I think "active meditation" and chanting works for some people much better than sitting, quiet, still. Chanting can be very relaxing, empowering, healing, focusing, and more. The right vibrations are truly magical in every sense.

 

[crossfire]

Northern Lights: have you considered that it might be "beginner's mind" that might be responsible for this, and not the actual practice? Looking at everything with fresh awareness all of the time can be difficult, but is quite rewarding.

 

[Northern Lights]

I think "active meditation" and chanting works for some people much better than sitting, quiet, still. Chanting can be very relaxing, empowering, healing, focusing, and more. The right vibrations are truly magical in every sense.

Yes I agree. I think that is the essence of my 'discovery' here. - That mantra is the meditation that by far suits me best. The Gongyo (recitation of 2nd and 16th verses of Lotus Sutra) is long and one has to follow each syllable and concentrate a lot. This is absorbing and the fact that you are doing something positive and dharma related makes it a 'positive absorbing'. 20 minutes spent on the Gongyo and Daimoku chanting, really feels like I've been somewhere. Somewhere positive.

Northern Lights: have you considered that it might be "beginner's mind" that might be responsible for this, and not the actual practice? Looking at everything with fresh awareness all of the time can be difficult, but is quite rewarding.

Possibly. I'm certainly open to that. However, my gut feeling is that rather than it being the shiny newness of the practice, it's more the discovery of a meditation and practice that is (finally) really well suited to me.

 

[Jainarayan]

But Pure Land (or at least Amida Pure Land) told me that I am a useless human, beyond reproach and that my only chance of being 'saved' was through faith in Amida.

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. It's not a matter of being saved by Amitābha, as in being saved by Jesus, or even calling on Krishna at the time of death. Rather, by going to Amitābha's Pure Land of Sukhavati, one has a chance to get firsthand help from buddhas, bodhisattvas and arahants to achieve enlightenment faster than if done on your own. One also gets a respite from saṃsāra, and has the opportunity to decide whether to stay on to reach enlightenment or to return to one of the six realms to help other sentient beings. I can't remember the source (I'm sure Crossfire would know), but Amitābha said that repeating his name just 10 times with mindfulness of him was enough to effect entry to Sukhavati.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. It's not a matter of being saved by Amitābha, as in being saved by Jesus, or even calling on Krishna at the time of death. Rather, by going to Amitābha's Pure Land of Sukhavati, one has a chance to get firsthand help from buddhas, bodhisattvas and arahants to achieve enlightenment faster than if done on your own. One also gets a respite from saṃsāra, and has the opportunity to decide whether to stay on to reach enlightenment or to return to one of the six realms to help other sentient beings. I can't remember the source (I'm sure Crossfire would know), but Amitābha said that repeating his name just 10 times with mindfulness of him was enough to effect entry to Sukhavati.

From a certain point of view, Pure Land Buddhism is the poor man's Buddhism, or not even Buddhism at all. It states that the goal of this life is to enter in the Pure Land, with the hopes that there you will have a better chance of making your way to Nirvana there.

Meaning, you're a failure in this life so better luck in the next!

 

[Jainarayan]

I prefer to say 'lazy man's Buddhism', I freely admit I'm as lazy as hell. However, you bring up a good point about the sole aim of life being to enter the Pure Land. And I think it's not entirely accurate or complete that I said repeating Amitābha's name just 10 times was enough. My wording makes it sound like those who say a Christian can lead the most deliberately debauched and sinful life, then on their deathbed just say "Christ you know I love you, did you see I waved? I believe in you and God, so tell me that I'm saved!" (Jesus Christ Superstar). I don't think that's the teaching of Christianity, Hinduism or Buddhism.

 

[Northern Lights]

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. It's not a matter of being saved by Amitābha, as in being saved by Jesus, or even calling on Krishna at the time of death. Rather, by going to Amitābha's Pure Land of Sukhavati, one has a chance to get firsthand help from buddhas, bodhisattvas and arahants to achieve enlightenment faster than if done on your own. One also gets a respite from saṃsāra, and has the opportunity to decide whether to stay on to reach enlightenment or to return to one of the six realms to help other sentient beings.

I hear your views, and respect them. But I came to that view directly from the voice of a Priest in the Amida Order; who was standing in front of me as she said it! Pure Land, like Buddhism is an umbrella term in itself; I know that not all Pure Land schools see things as they were taught in that experience of Amida Buddhism. The Amida school is westernized Pure Land; very influenced by Christianity I felt. Even the Priests were referred to as 'Reverend'.

So I was speaking of Amida-Shu (as I made pretty clear). I have little knowledge of other Pure Land schools, and don't doubt your statements on them.

I can't remember the source (I'm sure Crossfire would know), but Amitābha said that repeating his name just 10 times with mindfulness of him was enough to effect entry to Sukhavati.

Actually in the Jodo Shinshu school, making the vow once, (and never again in your life) can be sufficient. Further Nembutsu is purely to give thanks, in that sect.

Moving back to my OP: Whereas I found Amida Pure Land Buddhism entirely 'other power' in it's focus, I find Nichiren-Shu to be a good balance of self power and other power. Because my sitting meditation practice has never been strong or rewarding, I am pleased to be practicing by Mantra but at the same time, Nichiren-Shu does require more effort on the practitioners part, than Pure Land does, [In my opinion].

The main point with Nichiren-Shu, for me, is very much that I am measuring it wholly on practical application and results. I enjoy the practice, so doing it is not a chore (as sitting meditation was), and if I see benefits then great. I'll reinforce my learning by reading and studying the Lotus Sutra, but that will be the limit of my practice. No plans to practice with others, look for Sanshas, or 'socialize' the practice in anyway.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram NL ji :namaste

Hello all,

Some may, on reading this post, believe that it belongs somewhere in the Buddhism DIR thread but actually, I am and have been a seeker as long as I can remember, and although I've been aligned closer to Buddhism than anything else over the last 15 years at least - I'm still a seeker more than a Buddhist.
In the last 3 months alone I have flitted around from various Buddhist practices and schools, including a month spent practicing Pure Land (Amida) and even going along to a local Sangha. But Pure Land (or at least Amida Pure Land) told me that I am a useless human, beyond reproach and that my only chance of being 'saved' was through faith in Amida. Nah, I had to walk away from that one.

interesting that you draw distinction between calling one self Buddhist and Seeker there are times when I have felt if this is Buddhism then it is not for me I was allways looking for something more profound somthing that struck a chord within which some schools and practices just dont do .

I've constantly persisted with more mainstream Buddhist practice. Again I've been to local Sanghas, in secular and recently the Dhammakaya tradition here in the UK. But an issue I have had for 16 years now is that sitting meditation practices just don't seem to work for me, or don't seem suited to be at least. I've just never felt I've progressed in any way; no inner peace, no stillness, no greater sense of compassion, no increased perspective, etc. Sitting Meditations are quite physically relaxing while I practice, but 10 minutes after I could be getting angry and worked up by someone's bad driving habits on the way home from the meditation class!

Anyway three days ago, I stumbled across some Nichiren stuff on YouTube. I'd always dismissed it as 'not real Buddhism' (a little like I'd learned to feel about Amida Pure Land), and also had read some alarming things about the SGI organisation. But I came across this website, from this guy in the US who practices Nichiren-Shu sincerely and wholehearedly, but completely independently. I really liked what I saw. I decided to practice for a couple of days. I printed off the Gongyo (2nd and 16th verses of the Lotus Sutra, in Japanese), and with the help of a YouTube pronounciation vid, chanting it each morning and evening, along with some Daimoku chanting ("Namu Myoho Renge Kyo"). I did not really go into this with an open heart but as I am a musical and aural type person (I run a sound engineering business) it seemed fun.

jai jai , sometimes these beautifull things happen , and allways when you are not expecting ....

Now 3 days in, my cynicism is really starting to crumble........ after each Gongyo chant I feel fantastic. Revitalized. Fresh. Positive. I feel exactly how I always wanted to feel after sitting meditation, but didn't.

The mild to moderate depression that I've had for 3 months seems lighter, less prevalent. Psychological effects ? Maybe? .... Hey, maybe Nichiren chanting has absolutely no substance whatsoever other than as a distraction meditation ..... but I don't care - it's working. For me, anyway.

please please dont try to explain it away , it is what it is , sunshine appering from behind the clouds , the blessings of the Buddhas ....nectar or bliss , it is your primordial state , ....but stll it is difficult to find ,to identify , to realise and to hold on to , it comes in snatches then it goes , but you have tasted it , it will or can allways return .

I decided to post this here, so that it puts a "mark in the sand" and records this event. If in 3 days time I have moved on to some other flash in the pan practice, then we'll know that the Nichiren practice was just co-inciding with some 'good feelings' that we all inevitably have, even when depressed.

even if it passes , ...then you know what exists beyond the clouds , you know your eternal nature , ever blissfull .

But I have a good feeling. At the end of the day, the reason why in the past I have fallen out of practice habits, is because they've not seemed to benefit me. We all do things that give us some benefit. And we all lose interest things that don't give us any benefit. I feel a strong urge and happiness about my twice or three times daily Nichiren practice - because I feel really great after it. Like the sun is shining inside my body.

just keep on resting in that space , ... it is this ilumination from within that I often speak about I find it listening to many mantras or even contemplating a particular verse of prayer or sadhana , sufi chants also the same for me , I regularly (allthough I am not still technicaly Buddhist by some peoples definition ,because I no longer practice with my sangha) recite many tibetan mantra because they are so utterly beautifull and because it is not the sound nor words alone but it is that the mantra it self its subtle vibrational sound that cause the clouds of ignorance to part and deep conections to be formed between ourselves and the eternal bliss .

that bliss is to be found in many traditions but you are right it is only found by seekers , being an ...''ist'' is not enough .

to most people I am talking gobbldy gook ... but then the odd soul understands me in which case I am happy for them as they too have seen the flash of lightning in the dark of night .

WATCH THIS SPACE!

jai jai , mahabhagavata :namaste

 

[crossfire]

I can't remember the source (I'm sure Crossfire would know), but Amitābha said that repeating his name just 10 times with mindfulness of him was enough to effect entry to Sukhavati.

Nope. I'm pretty ignorant of Pure Land Buddhism. I'm pretty ignorant of any Buddhist chanting, ritual, or devotional practices. For all I know, that could be just another cure for the hiccups.

 

[Northern Lights]

@ Ratikala;

Thanks for such a positive, warm and kind reflection on my OP. It's really appreciated.

I am about 5 days into independent Nichiren-Shu practice; that's at about the point where I tend to start getting doubts, cynicism, unfulfillment, even boredom .......... and this practice is going the opposite way; it just keeps getting better.

Let me share this anecdote; when my depression is descending, I always know because I just completely go off something that I normally love; music. When I am depressed, I just cannot listen to even my favourite music. I can't explain why.

I've been like that for 2 months now. This evening, after a fantastic 30 minutes full Gongyo and Daimoke practice (2nd, 16th verse of Lotus, plus NMRK repetitions), I just felt absolutely fantastic. And the first thing I did afterwards was put on some of my favourite music.

Take as you find. Isn't that what we should all do. One medicine is not the right cure for everyone. But I seriously think I've found my medicine, after years and years of taking the wrong stuff!

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

@ Ratikala;

Thanks for such a positive, warm and kind reflection on my OP. It's really appreciated.

Hehe , I am just very happy for you

I am about 5 days into independent Nichiren-Shu practice; that's at about the point where I tend to start getting doubts, cynicism, unfulfillment, even boredom .......... and this practice is going the opposite way; it just keeps getting better.

I dont know If I can talk about depression , I get down at times untill I remember to shrug it off , years ago I had to deal with a very awfull period in my life , my doctor said I was clinicaly depressed , which was depressing enough in itself , ... but for some reason I was determined to belive that I was bigger than it (what ever it is) so I refused the offer of pills and up'ed my meditation practice but not just my sitting practice but the analitical mind training side of applying what one learns in meditation so I learnt how to outwitt it , it took some doing and still I have to talk to the little brain sometimes but I am much much better at seeing it coming and putting it in its place .

Let me share this anecdote; when my depression is descending, I always know because I just completely go off something that I normally love; music. When I am depressed, I just cannot listen to even my favourite music. I can't explain why.

I've been like that for 2 months now. This evening, after a fantastic 30 minutes full Gongyo and Daimoke practice (2nd, 16th verse of Lotus, plus NMRK repetitions), I just felt absolutely fantastic. And the first thing I did afterwards was put on some of my favourite music.

Take as you find. Isn't that what we should all do. One medicine is not the right cure for everyone. But I seriously think I've found my medicine, after years and years of taking the wrong stuff!

take as you find is truely the right method , and if it works do it , and if your mind needs a change that is fine too sometimes I alternate my practices it keeps them fresh , we get complacent and slip in to routines and 'do' without truely thinking or appreciating , so we do sometimes need change or different medicine as our condition changes ....remember ....time , place and circumstance

best wishes :namaste

 

[Northern Lights]

Very wise words, Ratikala - thanks.

Another fantastic day in the life of a Nichiren practitioner. I also discovered a small but nice little forum sangha out there, specifically for independent Nichiren.

I should add one point about my statement; "I feel fantastic after practice". This is not in a 'high' or artifically elated way. It's more of just a lovely, natural 'levelling' that takes away the tendancy for negative thoughts to arise and manifest. Since starting Nichren practice, a positive mind and optimism just seem to come more naturally.

 

[Sees]

Update?

 

[Windwalker]

When some asks me what type of meditation do I practice, what method do I follow, I struggle to respond with a specific answer. The way that works for me, is the best answer. In reality if you are practicing meditation, you are not meditating. If sitting doesn't work, then try dancing. If dancing doesn't work, then try posing. Etc.

To me all practices that have been developed are simply tools to help you find your natural state of meditation. You cannot teach someone how to meditate as it is their natural state. But you can teach them techniques to help them overcome their own particular obstacles they have which prevent them from meditating. And those obstacles can also change from one day to the next for that individual! To get married to one particular technique will actually hinder you at times, as it isn't what you are supposed to know about yourself and learn about yourself that day in discovering all those many and varied parts of ourselves which are our own unique obstacles to keep us away from meditation.

As an example, the Buddha taught this:

7 Factors of Enlightenment

When the mind is sluggish, it is not the proper time for cultivating the following factors of enlightenment:
tranquility, concentration, and equanimity,
because a sluggish mind can hardly be aroused by them.

When the mind is sluggish, it is the proper time for cultivating the following factors of enlightenment:
investigation of phenomena (dhammavicaya), energy (viriya) and rapture (piti),
because a sluggish mind can easily be aroused by them.

When the mind is restless, it is not the proper time for cultivating the following factors of enlightenment:
investigation of the phenomena, energy and rapture,
because an agitated mind can hardly be quietened by them.

When the mind is restless, it is the proper time for cultivating the following factors of enlightenment:
tranquility (passaddhi), concentration (samadhi) and equanimity (upekkha),
because an agitated mind can easily be quietened by them.

"But as for mindfulness (sati), monks, I declare that it is always useful."

(SN 46:53)
​

It is fantastic to find a tool that has opened this for you. But don't be dismayed or frustrated when sometimes it doesn't work the same as before. My greatest challenge in myself with meditation is getting over the "repeat performance" expectation. The two single greatest guiding principles for meditation I could share are these: Intention, without expectation. Intention, holds you to your focus, to your will to be present in mind and body and to allow meditation to unfold as it will. No expectation, sets aside your egoic seeking mind, which when active turns its gaze away from the depths, and squarely back on the small desiring ego and its wants and needs. Those two principles, with whatever technique helps quite the mind and open to the deep, be that mantras, dancing, breath control, or whatever, will allow meditation to occur naturally. And the more you discover what works, the greater your tool set to know and master yourself.

 

[Northern Lights]

Update?

Still going fantastically thanks. Practicing twice per day. Look forward to it. Enjoy the practice, rather than it being a bind or a chore.

I am also going along to a local group, who practice Nichiren across my county soon. So will be good to practice my Gongyo and Daimoku with others too.

Thanks for asking!