Objectively Real

[Willamena]

Is the idea that a thing is "objectively real" a product of two (or more) people agreeing that their ideas are the same, based on description?

 

[DadBurnett]

It seems to me that objectively is an assumption of a reality and I'm not sure that reality is dependent upon multiple people being objective .. or upon them sharing a singular description.
It seems to me that the words appearing on my monitor are real and I don't seem to need someone else agree with me that they are real. And, I'm not sure where "description" fits in.
I don't know, what do you thinK ...

 

[Dunemeister]

Is the idea that a thing is "objectively real" a product of two (or more) people agreeing that their ideas are the same, based on description?

This question is too vague as a conversation-starter I think. What does it mean to claim that a thing is objectively real? What do you mean by "product"? How does description of ideas come into the picture?

 

[freethinker44]

To be objective means that something can't be dependent on anything else and is tue regardless of whether a belief is held about it or not. It is impossible for something to be objective and be the product of anything, if something fits in that category, then it isn't really objective.

 

[Ozzie]

Is the idea that a thing is "objectively real" a product of two (or more) people agreeing that their ideas are the same, based on description?

Only if the "description" is a third party report of the thing, and two or more people agree the thing is "objectively real" based on the description of the thing contained in the third party report, without changing it in any way.

 

[Willamena]

Only if the "description" is a third party report of the thing, and two or more people agree the thing is "objectively real" based on the description of the thing contained in the third party report, without changing it in any way.

So it needs three or more people to agree?

 

[freethinker44]

So it needs three or more people to agree?

If something is objectively true then it is true everywhere, all the time, under any condition or circumstance.

You are thinking of subjective truth where it is true only in certain places or certain times or when certain conditions are met.

 

[Willamena]

It seems to me that objectively is an assumption of a reality and I'm not sure that reality is dependent upon multiple people being objective .. or upon them sharing a singular description.
It seems to me that the words appearing on my monitor are real and I don't seem to need someone else agree with me that they are real. And, I'm not sure where "description" fits in.
I don't know, what do you thinK ...

Well, when we describe a thing, we have shared it. We could both experience something, independently, but it's sharing it that removes any doubt about it's objective authenticity.

 

[Willamena]

What does it mean to claim that a thing is objectively real? What do you mean by "product"? How does description of ideas come into the picture?

The first question is what the thread is about.
A "product" is produced by things at work.
Descrption --see above.

 

[Willamena]

To be objective means that something can't be dependent on anything else and is tue regardless of whether a belief is held about it or not. It is impossible for something to be objective and be the product of anything, if something fits in that category, then it isn't really objective.

Doesn't the relationship of causality (causes and effects) indicate that everything is dependent upon something? Isn't it an objective relationship?

 

[Willamena]

If something is objectively true then it is true everywhere, all the time, under any condition or circumstance.

I've heard that before, but I don't see in the dictionary.
objective: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

 

[Ozzie]

So it needs three or more people to agree?

Any number of people can produce a third party report they agree on.

 

[Ozzie]

I've heard that before, but I don't see in the dictionary.
objective: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

Try a posteriori necessity.

 

[freethinker44]

Doesn't the relationship of causality (causes and effects) indicate that everything is dependent upon something? Isn't it an objective relationship?

That's what I think. I don't believe it is possible for anything to be objective, everything is subjective to something else. The same with absolutes, I don't believe those exist either, but then an absolute truth is just different wording for objective truth.

 

[freethinker44]

I've heard that before, but I don't see in the dictionary.
objective: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com

Yeah there a few different usages for the word "objective" so a dictionary definition is kind of vague, but the definition " something that actually exists" is kind of the same but just less philosophical.

 

[Willamena]

Try a posteriori necessity.

No hits. Can you explain it?

 

[Willamena]

Yeah there a few different usages for the word "objective" so a dictionary definition is kind of vague, but the definition " something that actually exists" is kind of the same but just less philosophical.

But even something only one person experiences once in their life-time for an instant could be "something that actually exists."

 

[Willamena]

That's what I think. I don't believe it is possible for anything to be objective, everything is subjective to something else. The same with absolutes, I don't believe those exist either, but then an absolute truth is just different wording for objective truth.

Ah, I see. My own thought is that everything is objective and subjective, depending on the perspective adopted to describe it.

 

[freethinker44]

Ah, I see. My own thought is that everything is objective and subjective, depending on the perspective adopted to describe it.

You just described subjectivity.

Wikipedia's definition:
Subjectivity refers to a person's perspective or opinion, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. It is often used casually to refer to unsubstantiated personal opinions, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs. In philosophy, the term is often contrasted with

Objectivity is true whether anyone is there is have a perspective regarding it or not.

 

[freethinker44]

But even something only one person experiences once in their life-time for an instant could be "something that actually exists."

Right, it doesn't even need to be experienced to be objective, but like I said, the dictionary definition is very vague, at first glance it would appear that everything is objective because everything that exists actually exists, but apply a little socratic method and it is easy to distinguish between what actually exists and what is perceived to exist. For instance cause and effect could be argued to be subjective because each depend on something else in order to exist, an effect isn't an effect without a cause, therefore an effect is subjective to a cause, but that doesn't mean the cause is objective, a cause is only a cause because it has an effect, if there is no effect, there is no cause, so both are subjective to each other.