Obedience, Spirit, and Professionalism

[Balthazzar]

Is this the true intent of discipleship? To become skilled, professional, and disciplined? From Judaism to Christianity to Islam, then on to Buddhism, Hindu, Shinto and many others, it seems common among these in relation to conduct and professionalism - Skill and effectiveness are products of dedication and discipline. Why do we not see more professionalism among those who profess to be - of like mind, purpose, and duty?

I myself tend to be more haphazard than not, goofy, if not childlike in demeanor. My professionalism lacks the discipline to be deemed professional. My skill is more developed than many, but my real life persona is as if I'm two different people. One way in discussion and another in daily activity. I wonder if this might be a natural state of balance between professionalism and simply being human enough to engage my goofy-childlike side in every day social situations?

 

[sun rise]

Is this the true intent of discipleship? To become skilled, professional, and disciplined?

Skilled and professional I'd apply to the work world.

A phrase from my background is "wise as a serpent; harmless as a dove" which to me means having a fully developed mind and fully open heart.

childlike

The Bible at least puts being childlike as a very desireable thing to be:
Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

If we think of what a child is ideally like we use thoughts like eagerness to learn, willing to try, try and try again to master new skills, trust in parents, full of happiness. Look at the smiles of the young ones and compare that to adults. When was the last time, if ever, you saw an adult smiling with joy like this:

 

[Balthazzar]

My background as well, but then some of us choose an uncommon calling - Wise as serpents, gentle as doves is relevant no matter the calling answered. A sense of obligation, duty, purpose, and need for skill and professionalism is an uncommon call to answer. I think perhaps, at least in political affairs involving authoritarian figures and entities, professionalism to be essential - Skill no less essential - and I would, after some consideration, suggest the goofy -child-like demeanor to be a perk of a less strict form of honor and duty - I'm both disappointed in myself and pleased with my progress -

 

[Ella S.]

I apply many of the Stoic teachings of discipline to my life, although it is mostly in a therapeutic sense to help me cope with anhedonia and dissociation, but Stoicism does give its own answers to these questions.

Stoicism is, unlike it has been stereotyped to be, not fundamentally about being serious. Epictetus talks about enjoying oneself in festivities, Seneca talks about the importance of laughing at life and being there for one's friends, and so on. There's even the famous Stoic sage, Chrysippus, who got drunk and then laughed himself to death after seeing a drunken donkey lazily eating figs in his garden. Not exactly a consummate professional, right?

The important part for the Stoics is that one is not ruled by external things, or by one's reactionary emotions, but instead focuses on cultivating virtue. You can be as goofy as you want, as long as you're doing the right thing.

Well, for most Stoics, at least. There are a few Stoic sticks-in-the-mud like Musonius Rufus, and Marcus Aurelius has been read in some fairly troubling ways recently, but Stoicism is a diverse school of thought.

 

[Balthazzar]

I apply many of the Stoic teachings of discipline to my life, although it is mostly in a therapeutic sense to help me cope with anhedonia and dissociation, but Stoicism does give its own answers to these questions.

Stoicism is, unlike it has been stereotyped to be, not fundamentally about being serious. Epictetus talks about enjoying oneself in festivities, Seneca talks about the importance of laughing at life and being there for one's friends, and so on. There's even the famous Stoic sage, Chrysippus, who got drunk and then laughed himself to death after seeing a drunken donkey lazily eating figs in his garden. Not exactly a consummate professional, right?

The important part for the Stoics is that one is not ruled by external things, or by one's reactionary emotions, but instead focuses on cultivating virtue. You can be as goofy as you want, as long as you're doing the right thing.

Well, for most Stoics, at least. There are a few Stoic sticks-in-the-mud like Musonius Rufus, and Marcus Aurelius has been read in some fairly troubling ways recently, but Stoicism is a diverse school of thought.

I've heard of Stoics, but never did a study of the philosophy. Is it a philosophy or religion, or something else? Being more disciplined appeals to me, but then so does being a goof on a good day gone bad and vice versa. It helps me break through the stressors to laugh at myself - not so much at others.

My serious side is typically reserved for discussions like the ones here, or when politics are brought up. That and out of necessity when coming to a point of having a genuine need to release or vent. These are typically explosive and dangerous, although they never involve explosives and I always walk away before becoming a threat to others. Anger management has been suggested, but then I seem to always be stressed lately. It must be a result of the environment I'm typically in, which has me in exodus mode and preparation for my exit to hopefully less stressful conditions.

Discipline - Self control, and maybe a pilgrimage to the river, so I can continue my work with less distractions. I like to make things - artisan efforts in craftmanship. I may need this type of hiatus, if only for the potential of therapeutic value.

 

[Ella S.]

I've heard of Stoics, but never did a study of the philosophy. Is it a philosophy or religion, or something else? Being more disciplined appeals to me, but then so does being a goof on a good day gone bad and vice versa. It helps me break through the stressors to laugh at myself - not so much at others.

My serious side is typically reserved for discussions like the ones here, or when politics are brought up. That and out of necessity when coming to a point of having a genuine need to release or vent. These are typically explosive and dangerous, although they never involve explosives and I always walk away before becoming a threat to others. Anger management has been suggested, but then I seem to always be stressed lately. It must be a result of the environment I'm typically in, which has me in exodus mode and preparation for my exit to hopefully less stressful conditions.

Discipline - Self control, and maybe a pilgrimage to the river, so I can continue my work with less distractions. I like to make things - artisan efforts in craftmanship. I may need this type of hiatus, if only for the potential of therapeutic value.

Ancient Stoicism was a Hellenic religion. It included a cosmogony surrounding Zeus, the Logos, and the soul, and taught that "virtue" was being in-line with Zeus's vision for the world. They believed that people were naturally imbued with a drive to do good by Zeus and that evil only arose out of ignorance. They gave directions on how to properly sacrifice to the various gods of their time.

Modern Stoicism is not always religious, and is often secularized, although there are still many religious Stoics. The core to Stoic philosophy is normally seen as their teachings on dispassion, but they also had a unique system of logic.

As for anger, I've found that letting go of external things (which are outside of your control) and focusing only on your thoughts and actions helps, which is a part of Stoic dispassion. It can feel depressing to let go of your attachment to external things, so you really have to find something meaningful within you.

In the case of Stoicism, they prioritized the practice of virtue over the pursuit of external things. So they weren't looking to control the outside world or expecting anything from it, but instead focused on cultivating their own character. Nothing can get in the way of that except you. Or, you know, brain damage.