not seeking a debate just questioning

[islam abduallah]

about 18 months ago i posted in the Islam DIR asking about the possibility of reuniting among Muslims allover the worlds and i meant specially between Sunni and Shia

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam-dir/121940-dears-could-we-reunite-again.html

but then when the events went deeper in Syrian and 70,000 people were killed and what's happening in Bahrain, eastern area in KSA, Yemen and finally after iran's president visit to Egypt, i see it's too far for reuniting or accepting each other, and i think that both Sunni and Shia could be friends with zionsitis easier than to be friends to each other

indeed i read and heard a lot about Shia but mostly from my scholars "Sunni, Salafi" and for sure it was bad things, then decided to watch some Iraqi shia TV channels that broadcasting through the Nilesat, and really i wondered from many things i listened and watched from Shia scholars, like one said "it's better to give your charity (Zakah) to a poor Buddhist, a christian or even an infidel better than to give it to a Sunni? it doesn't make any sense with me

another scholar said if a shia and Sunni are in one a room, the shia has no option to kill the Sunni otherwise he will be a sinner

a third one said Aisha was Infidel, so the prophet's wife was infidel and the believers mother "as the quran states" infidel

also another one says that say O" Allah or O' Ali is the same and your prayers will be answered how this comes?

final one said " the verse "Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.' part of verse 33:33 was moved from it's place by Sunni to add the Prophet's wives to AL ALBAYET "household" so he said that the quran is corrupted and isn't preserved by god.

the problem that this happened in attendenace of thousands students and all of them are believing them

my question is does all Shia believe in that?, and what's the origin of all of these concepts and theories that nor the quran or the prophet talks about it?

last question was the prophet belong to sunni or shia

thanks for your patience and as i said i just asking not seeking a debate

thanks in advance..

 

[islam abduallah]

oh dears 42 views and no answer is it bad thread?

 

[Pastek]

There's many countries were sunnis and shias live together in peace : in many african countries, Lebanon, Turkey etc ...

indeed i read and heard a lot about Shia but mostly from my scholars "Sunni, Salafi" and for sure it was bad things, then decided to watch some Iraqi shia TV channels that broadcasting through the Nilesat, and really i wondered from many things i listened and watched from Shia scholars, like one said "it's better to give your charity (Zakah) to a poor Buddhist, a christian or even an infidel better than to give it to a Sunni? it doesn't make any sense with me

There's many bad scholars, shias or sunnis.
When i watch internet sometimes i'm ashamed.

but then when the events went deeper in Syrian and 70,000 people were killed and what's happening in Bahrain, eastern area in KSA, Yemen and finally after iran's president visit to Egypt, i see it's too far for reuniting or accepting each other, and i think that both Sunni and Shia could be friends with zionsitis easier than to be friends to each other

That is more politic for me, than religious.
It reminds me when people choose someone from their ethnicity or their city to give him a job.
That's the same thing

and finally after iran's president visit to Egypt, i see it's too far for reuniting or accepting each other

What happened ?

 

[islam abduallah]

There's many countries were sunnis and shias live together in peace : in many african countries, Lebanon, Turkey etc ...

peace in Lebanon ! i don't think so

There's many bad scholars, shias or sunnis.
When i watch internet sometimes i'm ashamed.

i agree with that

That is more politic for me, than religious.
It reminds me when people choose someone from their ethnicity or their city to give him a job.
That's the same thing

i think it's religious, look who supports alassad you will find them Iran and Hezbuallah both are shia, see who supported Syria Turkey and Egypt "Sunni"

What happened ?

people received him by shoes on his face and the Imam of Alazhar learnt him a lesson in public about how to respect the companions and the prophet's wives

 

[Matemkar]

كفى بالمرء كذبا أن يحدث بكل ما سمع

Salam.. Just to let you know.. Shia Muslims don't believe in such things.. I suggest you study shia islam, by the works of mainstream shia Muslims.. Not by the agents who are on the air for US-Afghani and British-Iraqi Satellite TVs or the ghulats (extremists) who work for strife.. And, if both sides be aware of that, unity will be formed inshaAllah..

Please see this short video on unity to be aware of the plots:

[youtube]ZozvrEmtK-Y[/youtube]
Iran Today - On Islamic Unity Week - Press TV Program - YouTube

and, if you really have questions about shia islam, you can ask them here.. Not mentioning what some people say.. But, directly asking, what we think upon such and such issue.. Thank you May Allah bless you.. Ma salam

 

[cocolia42]

Assalamu alaikum, brother. I have a friend in Iran who has been teaching me a little about Shia. Here are some things he said (exact quotes)

also another one says that say O" Allah or O' Ali is the same and your prayers will be answered how this comes?

"we are only pray to ALLAH, Ali (a.s) is our Imam \ our leader
we are Following He.
yes we ask all Imam's to Pleading we to ALLAH
because they are so good & Innocent & immaculate
and we are guilty :'( "

final one said " the verse "Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.' part of verse 33:33 was moved from it's place by Sunni to add the Prophet's wives to AL ALBAYET "household" so he said that the quran is corrupted and isn't preserved by god.

"I believe Qur'an has not changed, it is exactly as ALLAH revealed it to Hz MUHAMMED (s.a.v)"

I'll send you his info if you'd like to speak to him about anything.

 

[islam abduallah]

كفى بالمرء كذبا أن يحدث بكل ما سمع

i think it's not appropriate to post this hadith for me specially that i'm here to asking about the credibility of such sayings or you don't want me to ask
also this hadith is narrated by imam Muslim, do you recognize his book of hadith as reference? as per my information "maybe it's wrong" that you denied his book, please clarify that

Salam.. Just to let you know.. Shia Muslims don't believe in such things.. I suggest you study shia islam, by the works of mainstream shia Muslims.. Not by the agents who are on the air for US-Afghani and British-Iraqi Satellite TVs or the ghulats (extremists) who work for strife.. And, if both sides be aware of that, unity will be formed inshaAllah..

glad to hear that and i told you it's my dream and i posted about it 18 months ago but the real doesn't reveal it will be happened soon.

and, if you really have questions about shia islam, you can ask them here.. Not mentioning what some people say.. But, directly asking, what we think upon such and such issue.. Thank you May Allah bless you.. Ma salam

this is what i'm doing now, i'm asking here not any where else, and still seeking the answers for my questions?
1- in shai's opinion what's the main differences between shiete and sunni sects
2-do shia consider sunni muslims, i.e. will be in the heaven?
3-what's the origin of shia?
4-does the quran talk or advised to be shia?
5-How shia understanding the term of Tuquyyia?
6-do shia believe in what called" Mushaif fatimah", if No do you consider who believe in that Mushaif as a non Muslim or you consider him still a Muslim?
thanks for your patience

 

[islam abduallah]

Assalamu alaikum, brother. I have a friend in Iran who has been teaching me a little about Shia. Here are some things he said (exact quotes)

"we are only pray to ALLAH, Ali (a.s) is our Imam \ our leader
we are Following He.
yes we ask all Imam's to Pleading we to ALLAH
because they are so good & Innocent & immaculate
and we are guilty :'( "

wa alikum assalam sister, i consider what he's doing of asking Imams to plead him to Allah is sherk "making partners with Allah" this is not my opinion it's what the quran said "Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever" 39:3

so asking Imams to make you nearer to Allah is sherk as the verse states, specially if these Imams are death

"I believe Qur'an has not changed, it is exactly as ALLAH revealed it to Hz MUHAMMED (s.a.v)"

that's good although i know it's part of shia doctorine to believe in Mushaf fatimah "RA"

I'll send you his info if you'd like to speak to him about anything.

for sure, he's welcome ")

 

[Matemkar]

Bismihi Taala

Salam

i think it's not appropriate to post this hadith for me specially that i'm here to asking about the credibility of such sayings or you don't want me to ask

also this hadith is narrated by imam Muslim, do you recognize his book of hadith as reference? as per my information "maybe it's wrong" that you denied his book, please clarify that

the hadith I quoted makes stress upon not narrating things unless we study it further.. as Quran 49:6 also warns us to study thoroughly what we hear, to search if it is true, especially if it is about a community.. etc.

Shia Muslims don't accept hadith books, even our own ones as COMPLETELY Sahih (authentic).. these books have authentic and fabricated hadiths.. Unlike our sunni brethren we don't name our books completely Sihah (authentic).. and unlike the "Quranists" we don't reject the hadiths all either, just because of the fabricated or misinterpreted ones in these books.. what we do is to study them.. We accept some and reject some.. ["..[SIZE=-1]Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other?[/SIZE].." (Quran, 2:85) is for Quran which is completely revelations from God..] But, regarding the hadiths, we have Ilm al-Hadith (Hadith Science) too.. So, we can learn the authentic traditions of the Prophet..

And, brother.. Quoting a hadith from Sahih Muslim is not strange to shias as they study all books, it does not matter which sect it is.. But, for me, as I was raised as Sunni (and a bit Sufi) I'm a bit knowledgeable about hadiths in sunni sources.. And, I still accept the ones that does not go against Quran and Ahlulbait..

I could have mentioned shia hadiths about it.. But, I preferred to take sunni one.. I hope it is ok for you?
In shia sources there are also hadiths about studying what we hear (which's what you are doing now):

"What distance is between the right and the falsehood?" they asked.

"Four fingers," the Imams replied. "What you see with your own eye is the right. You may hear a lot of falsehoods with your ear." Source 1 , Source 2: Nahjal Balagha - Sermon 140

What I was trying to say, is that we don't need to mention those so-called "shia" or "sunni" sheiks-scholars as the satellite TVs and internet is full of those guys trying to make conflicts; shouting "beware of the shias/sunnis" etc. I'm sure you are sick of them too.. Anyway, rather we can discuss the topics, by asking questions directly.. and that's right.. That's what you did in the end of your message..

glad to hear that and i told you it's my dream and i posted about it 18 months ago but the real doesn't reveal it will be happened soon.

Brother, the differences have been there for more than a thousand years.. You can not change it in one night.. Rather, what we can do is to build bridges, by trying to understand each other well.. By getting rid of the lies we have been raised with.. inshaAllah.. this will be a great step for unity.. as you know, unity does not mean being the same, rather it is to come together despite the differences which in fact are not major ones..

ok.. You asked a few good questions, and I'm sure you have more questions.. please feel free to ask them.. and we can study it together But, I prefer we study one by one.. Because it may require time for us.. So, inshaAllah please take your time, reading the articles I will share..

 

[Matemkar]

1- in shai's opinion what's the main differences between shiete and sunni sects

Shia and Sunni sects have a lot of commonalities rather than the differences.. But, if we have to focus on the differences, the main one is Imamah (leadership)..

You can study it here: The Major Difference Between the Shia and the Sunni (A very brief article)

And, you can study what shias believe in by the book Shia in Islam by Allama Tabatabai

(You can read it online here) GHadeer.org SHI'A in Islam (As far as I remember a respected sunni brother here informed me about this great site)
(or get a hard-copy here) Shi'ite Islam: Allamah Sayyid Muhammad Husayn Tabatabai: Amazon.com: Books

Note: This is not a book preaching shia islam.. It gives a definiton about what shia Muslims believe in..

2-do shia consider sunni muslims, i.e. will be in the heaven?

Sunnis and Shias believe, one who witnesses that "There's no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger" is a Muslim.. So, yes, both sects consider each other to be Muslims..

But, muslims are not guaranteed heavens.. (and this is for all sects, shia, sunni, etc.) as there's concept of Kabaira (greater sins, such as killing, and etc.) and non-muslims are not guaranteed hell.. as there's the concept of Mustadafin..

You can study it here: Islam and Religious Pluralism

3-what's the origin of shia?

The Origins of Early Development of Shia Islam

4-does the quran talk or advised to be shia?

Please study this short article: The Term "Shia" in Quran and Hadith

5-How shia understanding the term of Tuquyyia?

A very short booklet upon it: Taqiyah

6-do shia believe in what called" Mushaif fatimah", if No do you consider who believe in that Mushaif as a non Muslim or you consider him still a Muslim?

About Quran.. We don't believe in tahrif (distortion in Arabic texts). We believe Quran is the same as what all Muslims have today.. and Mushaf Fatimah is not another Quran.. You can study it here:

Mushaf Fatimah: an Inquiry and Investigation into the Mushaf of Lady Fatimah and the Mushaf of Imam Ali (a.s)

wa alikum assalam sister, i consider what he's doing of asking Imams to plead him to Allah is sherk "making partners with Allah" this is not my opinion it's what the quran said "Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever" 39:3

so asking Imams to make you nearer to Allah is sherk as the verse states, specially if these Imams are death

It is not polytheism brother.. What he's doing is seeking shafaah/intercession (sunnis also believe in intercession, but through alive people.. yet, in that sense too, all the imams being martyrs are alive.. See, Quran: 2:154)..

and to learn about intercession, please see these short articles:

Intercession (shafaah)

What is Shafaa which we believe in

Seekin Shafaah from AwliyaAllah

I hope you study them when you have time.. May Allah bless you.. thanks.. Ma salam

 

[islam abduallah]

the hadith I quoted makes stress upon not narrating things unless we study it further.. as Quran 49:6 also warns us to study thoroughly what we hear, to search if it is true, especially if it is about a community.. etc.

i completely agree with the hadith but as i said i just wondered why you posted it for me, but anyway it's OK for reminding

Shia Muslims don't accept hadith books, even our own ones as COMPLETELY Sahih (authentic).. these books have authentic and fabricated hadiths.. Unlike our sunni brethren we don't name our books completely Sihah (authentic).. and unlike the "Quranists" we don't reject the hadiths all either, just because of the fabricated or misinterpreted ones in these books.. what we do is to study them.. We accept some and reject some.. ["..[SIZE=-1]Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other?[/SIZE].." (Quran, 2:85) is for Quran which is completely revelations from God..] But, regarding the hadiths, we have Ilm al-Hadith (Hadith Science) too.. So, we can learn the authentic traditions of the Prophet..

well, i agree with the concept itself not to accept a hadith except of being sure it's really authentic and that's what Sunni also, i don't know if you know that or not, in Sunni we have many books of Hadith rather than Muslim and Bukhary like book of Ahmed, termdhi, Nisa'ei, Ibn Majah, Ibn dawoud, ALhakem, daraqoutni, tabri and too many other books, we don't accept all of them as Authentic, only Bukhari and Muslim and for example Imam daraqutni said that about 12 hadith in sahih Bukhari isn't sahih but all of his doubts were answered by followers, and the same for Muslim but the number was same, so we are not different in the concept itself, maybe we are different in applying the concept

I could have mentioned shia hadiths about it.. But, I preferred to take sunni one.. I hope it is ok for you?

no problem for me as you like, i just was told that you don't accept Muslim or Bukhari hadith at all so just wondered that you use one of them.

Brother, the differences have been there for more than a thousand years.. You can not change it in one night.. Rather, what we can do is to build bridges, by trying to understand each other well.. By getting rid of the lies we have been raised with.. inshaAllah.. this will be a great step for unity.. as you know, unity does not mean being the same, rather it is to come together despite the differences which in fact are not major ones..

well, i read a lot about Crusades, and as Egyptian i know a lot about the situations of Egypt under shia's ruling "Fatemeen" and how saladin free Egypt from them and then to free Quds, so i know how much blood were shed because of that differences, and as i said you can now see situation in baharin, iraq, syria, yemen and for sure against the sunni minority in iran,

by the way it's not me or your faults, let's at least understand each other individually as for me you seem not representing the Shia whom i know and see and may i'm not good Representative for Sunni too

 

[islam abduallah]

It is not polytheism brother.. What he's doing is seeking shafaah/intercession (sunnis also believe in intercession, but through alive people.. yet, in that sense too, all the imams being martyrs are alive.. See, Quran: 2:154)..

excuse me but i don't read the links but i know well about shafaa, but i see what Shia do isn't seeking shafaah but it's pure polytheism and it's a clear form of polytheism

let's not talk about the shafaah in the other life as i think we agree about it, let's about the one here as i believe i can ask you please for me that Allah gave me a child as i'm married since 10 years and till now i got none, this is OK, i'm just asking you to do that as i feel you are better than me and so your dua maybe answered better than me, also what omar ibn al-khattab (RA) did with AL- abas the uncle of the prophet when he took him and pray for Allah saying for the sake of the uncle of the prophet rain us, it's not polytheism too because he asked Allah directly but for the sake of a good person and this is also i can accept

but to go to a grave of a death person and saying o Ali as an example .. bring a child for me, heal me from my illness, this is a pure polytheism

because i asked a person to do what nobody could do except Allah and make it worst by calling a death body and saying that they are live is twisting for the meaning of the verse it doesn't mean that they are live hearing us and seeing what we do

and why to make a barrier between me and Allah, why to put a middle man "And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever" 39:3"

what was the problem of people of Nuh, the people of Noah made statues for some good people and begin to ask them to do healing for them,.. etc and then it involved to worship them and this is what happened now, many of shia right now believe that Ali is same powerful of Allah it's the same evolution

 

[Matemkar]

well, i read a lot about Crusades, and as Egyptian i know a lot about the situations of Egypt under shia's ruling "Fatemeen" and how saladin free Egypt from them and then to free Quds, so i know how much blood were shed because of that differences, and as i said you can now see situation in baharin, iraq, syria, yemen and for sure against the sunni minority in iran,

First of all, we (the shia and sunni muslims who follow islamic revolution of iran) do not justify what sunnis-shias did back then.. You can study the book, Islamic Government by Imam Khomeini or Red Shiism vs Black Shiism by Dr. Ali Shariati etc. to learn more about it.. If shia muslims had approved of the Persian Empire, they wouldn't have made the Islamic Revolution in 1979.. and it is the same for Egypt, right? They did not approve of Anwar Sadat or H. Mobarak, just like Iranians did not approve of Shahs..

So, back to the history, being a so-called "shia" or "sunni" state does not mean they represented those islamic sects.. For instance, Ottomans (which was a "sunni" empire) fought Shia Muslims once.. But tey fought sunni states more, such as Mamluk Sultanates of Egypt. or before that Seljuk Dynasty which was also sunni, prosecuted their own sunni fellows more.. So, you see, what emperors or kings did even to their own folks using the name of the sects, did not represent the teachings of that sect.. I'm sure you studied this side of history too.. And you know that, focusing on just one old state may not help to see the bigger picture..

And, for today, I agree that, all the "muslim" states should have acted to form dialogue in those states which has conflicts..
But, about Islamic Iran I disagree.. There's no prosecution against sunni minority there.. Sunni muslim brethren have more rights then shia muslims in Iran.. Sunni muslims have more mosques, more MPs compared to shia muslim percentage there.. Please see:
İran'da Kaç Milyon Sünni Yaşamakta ve Sünni Camii Sayısı Kaç?
I can translate it into English if you wish.. But, I think, if you just check the names of the MPs you can get a clear picture..

by the way it's not me or your faults, let's at least understand each other individually as for me you seem not representing the Shia whom i know and see and may i'm not good Representative for Sunni too

I understand you.. But, please tell me if you know a person that can speak in the name of sunni islam today?
Do you have a leader that is accepted by all sunnis? I don't think so.. For shia too, it is the same.. No one can speak in the name of shia islam..
But, islamic revolution (which to me is beyond sects) has one.. And, if you want to see the current opinions of mostly shia and some sunni muslims who are submissive to the islamic revolution, you can listen to our leader here: The Office of the Supreme Leader and his latest remarks on muslim unity; http://www.leader.ir/langs/en/index.php?p=contentShow&id=10280 on the birth anniversaries of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh&hp).

excuse me but i don't read the links but i know well about shafaa, but i see what Shia do isn't seeking shafaah but it's pure polytheism and it's a clear form of polytheism

Astaghfirullah.. Now brother, that's a shame.. You are accusing your brethren of being not Muwahhid Muslim and being polytheists based on what you think we believe in.. And, when I shared our real view, you reject finding out.. Though you said you really are questioning, you refrain from hearing our viewpoints.. that's a shame..

There's no difference between a living and a dead person (though as I mentioned martyrs are not dead according to Quran) in Islam.. Death is not the end.. It is to change place.. and here's a site where our duas/prayers (Dua Kumail, Sahifa Kamilah, daily prayers, prayers for specific purposes and even the prayers recited in shrines) are recorded.. Duas.org - Dua - Supplications of Islam - Prayers
Please check if there's a statement that has something to do with shirk.. Though, I suggest reciting them with heart.. Not with the aim of finding "mistakes"..

And, please don't tell me you will not read any articles or duas I shared.. If you will not try to understand us, and go on accusing us with what you think we believe in, then it is better if we leave it here.. Because that won't help to the unity which you mentioned in the beginning of your message..Thank you for your understanding.. ma salam

 

[islam abduallah]

sorry dear, i'll be on work for 2 weeks, so i don't have enough time to follow the thread, i'll revert to you back when i take my 2 weeks vacation, till there enjoy your life and keep praying for us

Salam

 

[Matemkar]

wa salam
two weeks break is nice.. I had one lately.. And that's why I was more active in forums -mostly reading-..
Hope you have easy weeks and you can have rest at your break and inshaAllah read the articles and booklets I shared..
May Allah bless you.. Ma salam

 

[islam abduallah]

I just began to read the links to post, and excuse me to say that I found a lot of historical errors and what I could call deceiving, I know it’s not your fault but it’s the fault of the link’s writer but I have to declare this mistakes “according to my point of view”

The link The Major Difference Between the Shia and the Sunni mentioned that the major differences between sunni and shia are :-


1. The Caliphate (successorship/leadership) which the Shia believe is
the right of the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt.

2. The Islamic rule when there is no clear Quranic statement, nor is there
a Hadith upon which Muslim schools have agreed.

I see both are one and I couldn’t understand the difference, so I can say the major difference is in how to choose the ruler or the caliphate specially the first one after the prophet “PUBH”

Let’s go through the link, it says “

Imam Ali refused to give his allegiance to Abu Bakr for six months. He
gave his allegiance to Abu Bakr only after the martyrdom of his wife
Fatimah al-Zahra, Daughter of the Holy Prophet, six month after the
departure of Prophet. (see Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English version,
Tradition 5.546)”……… He later gave his allegiance when he found that the only way to
save Islam is to leave the isolation which occured due to his refusal of giving the oath of allegiance
when you just read the author’s words you will see yeah Ali refused to give his allegiance to abu bakr because Ali was thinking only that he deserved to be the caliph more than abu bakr.
But if you think deeply, you will find what’s the relation between death of Fatima and that ali discovered that he should give the allegiance to abu bakr, is ali suddenly discovered that abu bakr deserved it, no because the conflict between abu bakr and ali was beause of misunderstanding Fatima “RA”

and if you read the bukhari hadith they posted, you will find that the major conflict between abu bakr and ali wasn’t because of how abu bakr becomes a ruler but because the refusal of abu bakr to give Fatima “RA” of the prophet’s inherit
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 546
Narrated 'Aisha:

Fatima the daughter of the Prophet sent someone to Abu Bakr (when he was a caliph), asking for her inheritance of what Allah's Apostle had left of the property bestowed on him by Allah from the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) in Medina, and Fadak, and what remained of the Khumus of the Khaibar booty. On that, Abu Bakr said, "Allah's Apostle said, "Our property is not inherited. Whatever we leave, is Sadaqa, but the family of (the Prophet) Muhammad can eat of this property.' By Allah, I will not make any change in the state of the Sadaqa of Allah's Apostle and will leave it as it was during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, and will dispose of it as Allah's Apostle used to do." So Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not task to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself. When Fatima was alive, the people used to respect 'Ali much, but after her death, 'Ali noticed a change in the people's attitude towards him. So Ali sought reconciliation with Abu Bakr and gave him an oath of allegiance. 'Ali had not given the oath of allegiance during those months (i.e. the period between the Prophet's death and Fatima's death). 'Ali sent someone to Abu Bakr saying, "Come to us, but let nobody come with you," as he disliked that 'Umar should come, 'Umar said (to Abu Bakr), "No, by Allah, you shall not enter upon them alone " Abu Bakr said, "What do you think they will do to me? By Allah, I will go to them' So Abu Bakr entered upon them, and then 'Ali uttered Tashah-hud and said (to Abu Bakr), "We know well your superiority and what Allah has given you, and we are not jealous of the good what Allah has bestowed upon you, but you did not consult us in the question of the rule and we thought that we have got a right in it because of our near relationship to Allah's Apostle.”
So Ali himself admitted that Abu bakr is deserving the rule more than him
Don’t say please it’s not authentic hadith, I’m just using the hadith that your link referred also let’s forget about abu bakr and umar, when there was election that all muslims shared in it, what did the Muslim elect? Uthman or Ali? They elected uthman, so why usually claiming that Ali would win the elections if it was widely among all Muslims although that when the elections made, Uthman who won not Ali
I’d like to declare too that Abu bakr prevented his daughter” Aysha “ and Umar’s daughter hafsa who were the wives of the prophet from inherit too as he did was Fatima, so it wasn’t for something bad in abu bakr towards Fatima or Ali

For that link www.ghadeer.org
It’s talking about many concepts that I never heard about it except in iran like (walayat-i 'ammah) marja'iyat-i 'ilmi
What I want to discuss with you about this article is the term of the Ghadir Khumm that the prophet said that Ali should be the prophet’s caliph and this done before many companions and also the article stated that Ali is sinless according to sunni and shia, well I’ll agree about that he’s sinless, I have no problem with that, I love and respect all of the companions and know well what Ali did to serve Islam and Muslims.
So when Abu bakr steals the ruling “as per shia “why Ali didn’t fight him? Why Ali give him the allegiance even if it’s 6 months later but he admitted it and so he broke the will of the prophet too? Why he didn’t fight too against umar? When abu bakr nominated umar as the caliph before his death? Why he accepted to work as judge for umar? Why he didn’t fight against uthman? And why he worked as his first assistance? So as you and me believe he’s sinless that means that abu bakr, umar and utman were deserving ruling more than him and he knew that and he already admitted it to abu bakr
The justification I used to hear from shia that he was peaceful and he refused to shed a muslim’s blood and I know that ali was a warrior and the best warrior in the prophet’s army more than khaled and he already fought against mouawya ibn abi soffyan and a lot of muslims were killed in that war and a lot of companions too and we sunni say mouawya was mistaken and ali was right, please clarify to me why ali didn’t fight against abu bakr, umar and uthman and he accepted to fight against mouawya ?

Thanks my brother for your patience I’ll read the other articles and feed you back with my questions
Salam