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Noah's Flood vs The Epic of Gilgamesh

james bond

Well-Known Member
It's been long believed that one story is true while the other is myth. The Epic of Gilgamesh is myth because the Pharoahs came after Noah's time, and it's contents are not testable.

Yet, the flood myth persists because the oldest know recording of a global flood is the Bablylonian Epic of Gilgamesh story from 18th century BC. This is before Moses' writings about Noah. However, it only confirms that the EoG tablet was written earlier. Not that it's contents are original or correct.

The many flood myths are re-tellings of the real event that have been distorted through centuries of passing down information. The earliest records of the event date back two millennia before Jesus was born. There are over 200 myths from all over the world about a major flood. If a worldwide flood never happened, then why are there so many stories about it?

The Epic of Gilgamesh, a 12-tablet poem, is the most-cited myth people use to discredit the biblical account of Noah. The style is of an epic poem, and most of it has nothing to do with a flood, containing couplets and phrases that seem to point to recited fiction. It was created to honor the Pharoahs of the time.

Aside from that, the Gilgamesh boat is cube-shaped, which would be deadly for its occupants in rough seas. Only seven days were given for building it as well as to gather all the animals. Also, only seven days of rainfall covered the earth, and fickle gods destroy mankind but later give immortality to another.

The Biblical account is testable. Today, we have the Ark Encounter and Jonah's Ark. They weren't built to be falsifiable, but to honor God, Moses and Noah. One can equate it to what NASA scientists believe in colonizing Mars because the Earth is doomed, probably due to global warming. They are trying build a ship to reach Mars and test their theory out that it can be achieved. Whether their theory actually happens and becomes falsifiable is yet to be seen.
 
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Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
The biblical Flood is a huge misinterpretation of myths. The Milky Way contours are in many cultures mentioned as a flood in the Sky, hence the mythical term "the Milky Way River". This is observed from the Earth to run all around the Earth up in the Sky - but it is interpreted as once running On the Earth as a divine revenge on humans.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
AFAIK, God didn't tell Obama, NASA or even Elon Musk to colonize Mars. If he did, then it may be a worthwhile endeavor. But so far, we do not know if the ship can be built. Noah had some impossible task set before him. By then, he was 500 years-old. Yet, with God's help he was able to complete his mission. It's the same with the Ark Encounter and Jonah's Ark. Will the NASA scientists, i.e. atheist scientists, be able to complete their mission of just building a ship to get us there? No God's help. Hm...
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
The biblical Flood is a huge misinterpretation of myths. The Milky Way contours are in many cultures mentioned as a flood in the Sky, hence the mythical term "the Milky Way River". This is observed from the Earth to run all around the Earth up in the Sky - but it is interpreted as once running On the Earth as a divine revenge on humans.

Noah's flood is no misrepresentation. It isn't based on a scientific accomplishment just because something is there. It had to be done in order to repopulate the earth. It was about survival of the fittest, even though the cosmic rays made humans weaker and become the people we have today. Perhaps you get your Milky Way ideas from the myths of the early Egyptians whose purpose was to get their Pharoah's spirit down the Nile to the Milky Way.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
It's been long believed that one story is true while the other is myth. The Epic of Gilgamesh is myth because the Pharoahs came after Noah's time, and it's contents are not testable.

Yet, the flood myth persists because the oldest know recording of a global flood is the Bablylonian Epic of Gilgamesh story from 18th century BC. This is before Moses' writings about Noah. However, it only confirms that the EoG tablet was written earlier. Not that it's contents are original or correct.

The many flood myths are re-tellings of the real event that have been distorted through centuries of passing down information. The earliest records of the event date back two millennia before Jesus was born. There are over 200 myths from all over the world about a major flood. If a worldwide flood never happened, then why are there so many stories about it?

The Epic of Gilgamesh, a 12-tablet poem, is the most-cited myth people use to discredit the biblical account of Noah. The style is of an epic poem, and most of it has nothing to do with a flood, containing couplets and phrases that seem to point to recited fiction. It was created to honor the Pharoahs of the time.

Aside from that, the Gilgamesh boat is cube-shaped, which would be deadly for its occupants in rough seas. Only seven days were given for building it as well as to gather all the animals. Also, only seven days of rainfall covered the earth, and fickle gods destroy mankind but later give immortality to another.

The Biblical account is testable. Today, we have the Ark Encounter and Jonah's Ark. They weren't built to be falsifiable, but to honor God, Moses and Noah. One can equate it to what NASA scientists believe in colonizing Mars because the Earth is doomed, probably due to global warming. They are trying build a ship to reach Mars and test their theory out that it can be achieved. Whether their theory actually happens and becomes falsifiable is yet to be seen.
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here...

  • Gilgamesh was written sooner - but it can't be tested.
  • The Genesis deluge can be tested because some guy in Kentucky built a boat-shaped museum.
  • NASA is filled with atheists who want to colonize Mars.
Is there something that I'm missing?
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Perhaps you get your Milky Way ideas from the myths of the early Egyptians whose purpose was to get their Pharoah's spirit down the Nile to the Milky Way.
No I get the facts from reading of the Milky Way Myths from all over the world - an from connecting the ancient myths to their correct celestial objects and motions.
Read more here - Milky Way (mythology) - Wikipedia and here - List of names for the Milky Way - Wikipedia
Ancient Myths of Creation aren´t just mumbo jumbo but real cosmological observations and explanations and illustrated by lots of symbols.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
It's been long believed that one story is true while the other is myth. The Epic of Gilgamesh is myth because the Pharoahs came after Noah's time, and it's contents are not testable.
This may be the Christian perspective - but the rest of us understand that they're both Mythological stories - giving reference and meaning to events within a religious and cultural ethos.

Yet, the flood myth persists because the oldest know recording of a global flood is the Bablylonian Epic of Gilgamesh story from 18th century BC. This is before Moses' writings about Noah. However, it only confirms that the EoG tablet was written earlier. Not that it's contents are original or correct.
It doesn't persist as something that is to be taken seriously as a literal fact... Flood myths persist because every major cultural center before the advent of more efficient ground transportation was located along a large water way - most of these being rivers throughout Mesopotamia. Cultures whose well-being was directly tied to the health and stability of their local river developed grand tales about past stories of flooding. When propagating tales about their cultures, and as a process of sharing competing tales with surrounding cultures, each flood mythology grew into something more than an actual recording of events.

The many flood myths are re-tellings of the real event that have been distorted through centuries of passing down information. The earliest records of the event date back two millennia before Jesus was born. There are over 200 myths from all over the world about a major flood. If a worldwide flood never happened, then why are there so many stories about it?
As long as you understand that the real events that you're describing here were localized river floods and not global submersions, then you're right.

To answer your last question - please read my previous paragraph.

The Epic of Gilgamesh, a 12-tablet poem, is the most-cited myth people use to discredit the biblical account of Noah. The style is of an epic poem, and most of it has nothing to do with a flood, containing couplets and phrases that seem to point to recited fiction. It was created to honor the Pharoahs of the time.
http://www.aina.org/books/eog/eog.pdf

Why don't you apply this same level of discernment to your Biblical account? Wouldn't that let you observe them both through the same lens, removing your personal bias from the equation?

How is a modern retelling of Noah's flood any different?
A 500 year old man, with no real training, builds the largest wooden boat the world has ever seen so that an invisible voice in the sky can send him a pair of all the animals on the planet (which no one knew was a massive globe) and save them from a flood that submerged even the highest mountain peak. Then, the magic layer of water which somehow floated above the atmosphere was released onto the Earth (which no one knew was a massive globe) killing everything and everyone that wasn't on the boat... After that, this 500 year old man, and his sons and daughters repopulated the entire planet (which no one knew was a massive globe) and they all lived happily ever after - until they began sinning again, of course.

Don't these "couplets and phrases seem to point to recited fiction"?

Aside from that, the Gilgamesh boat is cube-shaped, which would be deadly for its occupants in rough seas. Only seven days were given for building it as well as to gather all the animals. Also, only seven days of rainfall covered the earth, and fickle gods destroy mankind but later give immortality to another.
Pretty unbelievable, right?
How is this any more ridiculous than the Biblical account?

Odysseus was able to survive a terrible tempest which killed his entire crew by quickly brandishing a few boards together to make a raft. Does the fact that his story seems more plausible make it an historical fact?

The Biblical account is testable. Today, we have the Ark Encounter and Jonah's Ark. They weren't built to be falsifiable, but to honor God, Moses and Noah. One can equate it to what NASA scientists believe in colonizing Mars because the Earth is doomed, probably due to global warming. They are trying build a ship to reach Mars and test their theory out that it can be achieved. Whether their theory actually happens and becomes falsifiable is yet to be seen.
How is the Biblical account testable, pray tell?
If the encounters aren't built to be falsifiable, then what are you actually saying here?

No NASA mission is focused on colonizing Mars... And it's not because "The Earth is doomed!" We're traveling to Mars because geological and chemical study with a human being in 3 days will be vastly more productive in determining if the planet ever once harbored life than the work of all the rovers over the past two decades.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
The Biblical account is testable. Today, we have the Ark Encounter and Jonah's Ark. They weren't built to be falsifiable, but to honor God, Moses and Noah. One can equate it to what NASA scientists believe in colonizing Mars because the Earth is doomed, probably due to global warming. They are trying build a ship to reach Mars and test their theory out that it can be achieved. Whether their theory actually happens and becomes falsifiable is yet to be seen.
Yes, it is testable and it has failed every test thrown at it.
Yes, NASA is investing in space exploration but serious colonisation of Mars is a non-starter; lack of food and water for a start.
Ark Encounter - you are having a laugh; in the UK we have Thomas the Tank Engine Land & Lego Land elsewhere there is Parc Asterix and Disney Parks. It doesn't make them true.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It's been long believed that one story is true while the other is myth. The Epic of Gilgamesh is myth because the Pharoahs came after Noah's time, and it's contents are not testable.

Yet, the flood myth persists because the oldest know recording of a global flood is the Bablylonian Epic of Gilgamesh story from 18th century BC. This is before Moses' writings about Noah. However, it only confirms that the EoG tablet was written earlier. Not that it's contents are original or correct.
That doesn't prove Gilgamesh was written first but Noah happened first.
The Biblical account is testable.
Perhaps, but it fails miserably at making predictions. Such as, if Noah's, or anybody else's global flood were real, we could expect to find evidence of such a flood in the sedimentary layers of the Earth as well as a sudden disruption and abrupt end to what seems all human civilization. We don't find either of these things, even though they are crucial in proving anyone's flood story. And even if both of these conditions where met, it still leaves us with attempting to solve how it happened, where all the water came from/went to, and other details relating to it. It would still require more evidence to prove it was specifically your god that caused it.
Today, we have the Ark Encounter and Jonah's Ark.
Those are nothing more than amusement/theme parks. I've to Hogwarts at Universal Studios, but it makes Hogwarts no more real than a fantasy from a book.
Whether their theory actually happens and becomes falsifiable is yet to be seen.
A scientific theory, starting as a hypothesis, must be by default falsifiable. You don't figure out if it's falsifiable later, it has to be falsifiable from the start.
But so far, we do not know if the ship can be built.
It could be built, but the dimensions the Bible gives us would make it simple impossible to house that many animals. There just wouldn't be enough room.
Ark Encounter - you are having a laugh; in the UK we have Thomas the Tank Engine Land & Lego Land elsewhere there is Parc Asterix and Disney Parks. It doesn't make them true.
I didn't know there were any Thomas theme parks. I'd almost want to check it out just to check it out, and to reacquaint myself with something George Carlin worked on that I haven't seen since I was a wee little kid.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think you're on to something. Back in the day God told Noah to build an Ark to prepare for the coming flood. Noah warned the people, but the devil told them, no need to repent and turn to God, build pyramids higher than the flood waters; When the floods come everybody get inside and seal it up, except for the air shaft coming out the top. So the atheists built the pyramids, Almost high enough.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I think you're on to something. Back in the day God told Noah to build an Ark to prepare for the coming flood. Noah warned the people, but the devil told them, no need to repent and turn to God, build pyramids higher than the flood waters; When the floods come everybody get inside and seal it up, except for the air shaft coming out the top. So the atheists built the pyramids, Almost high enough.

So, what would have happened if the people listened to Noah? A useless flood?

Did he plan more space in the ark just in case people listened to him?

I am surprised Satan played that game. If I had been Satan, I would have convinced people to believe Noah. Just for the fun of seeing God and Noah working for nothing.

Ciao

- viole
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So, what would have happened if the people listened to Noah? A useless flood?

Did he plan more space in the ark just in case people listened to him?

Ciao

- viole

They would have repented from all the evil doing they were doing, then God would have not sent the flood. Noah was a preacher of righteousness, telling them to repent or God would send this great flood. But the devil said, don't worry about that flood, build some pyramids to keep you safe. The pyramid part is my own speculation, thats not in the bible.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
They would have repented from all the evil doing they were doing, then God would have not sent the flood. Noah was a preacher of righteousness, telling them to repent or God would send this great flood.

Without the internet, how could word have traveled from Noah to other parts of the world at the time? Were all of the people really given a fair chance? What was the population of the world at the time? How many people heard of the call to join Noah? How many people did not?

But the devil said, don't worry about that flood, build some pyramids to keep you safe. The pyramid part is my own speculation, thats not in the bible.
That's no surprise, given the chronological timeline of your story, and the known purpose of pyramid buidling being WAY off...
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
They would have repented from all the evil doing they were doing, then God would have not sent the flood. Noah was a preacher of righteousness, telling them to repent or God would send this great flood. But the devil said, don't worry about that flood, build some pyramids to keep you safe. The pyramid part is my own speculation, thats not in the bible.

So, what was Satan angle in that?

By the way, what pyramids are you addressing? The egyptian ones? The ones found full of people gasping for air? LOL.

Ciao

- viole
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Without the internet, how could word have traveled from Noah to other parts of the world at the time? Were all of the people really given a fair chance? What was the population of the world at the time? How many people heard of the call to join Noah? How many people did not?


That's no surprise, given the chronological timeline of your story, and the known purpose of pyramid buidling being WAY off...

When you say known purpose, you mean what they guess is the purpose, and when they guess they were built. Have they stopped suspecting aliens built them??

People lived for 1000 years then. Noah worked on the ark for lets say 100-500 years. Don't you think word would spread across the whole world about this guy who's been building this giant ark for 100's of years, miles and miles from the nearest body of water?
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So, what was Satan angle in that?

By the way, what pyramids are you addressing? The egyptian ones? The ones found full of people gasping for air? LOL.

Ciao

- viole

Don't know what Satan's angle was. Maybe just to watch them die. Like the story of the demons cast out of the mad man. They asked Jesus if they could posses a heard of pigs, then all they did was make the pigs run off a cliff to die.

Yeah the ones the Egyptians found full of people gasping for air, then cleaned them out, salvaged their gold and jewels, and repurposed them as tombs for their kings.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
When you say known purpose, you mean what they guess is the purpose, and when they guess they were built.
The purposes were literally written on the walls, as well as the times that they were built...
These inscriptions have been found inside the structures, without hordes of drowned or suffocated remains lying on the floor, so....

Have they stopped suspecting aliens built them??
The lunatics have not - anyone who actually cares about factual information never started suspecting this is the first place.

People lived for 1000 years then. Noah worked on the ark for lets say 100-500 years. Don't you think word would spread across the whole world about this guy who's been building this giant ark for 100's of years, miles and miles from the nearest body of water?
Please show me a single piece of evidence which supports the idea that people lived for 1,000 years "back then". Aside from a Bible quote, you won't be able to do it. Why is that?

Your Biblical tale says nothing about a man working on a boat for 100's of years...
Even the pseudoscience website that you creationists think has real data behind it says it only took 55-75 years to complete construction: How Long Did It Take for Noah to Build the Ark?

Why would a regional story travel outside of the region, let alone reach the whole of everyone on Earth, within any amount of years?
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The purposes were literally written on the walls, as well as the times that they were built...
These inscriptions have been found inside the structures, without hordes of drowned or suffocated remains lying on the floor, so....


The lunatics have not - anyone who actually cares about factual information never started suspecting this is the first place.


Please show me a single piece of evidence which supports the idea that people lived for 1,000 years "back then". Aside from a Bible quote, you won't be able to do it. Why is that?

Your Biblical tale says nothing about a man working on a boat for 100's of years...
Even the pseudoscience website that you creationists think has real data behind it says it only took 55-75 years to complete construction: How Long Did It Take for Noah to Build the Ark?

Why would a regional story travel outside of the region, let alone reach the whole of everyone on Earth, within any amount of years?

Maybe the Pharoh was and egomaniac like Trump is alleged to be by the liberals. Emptied out the bodies gasping for air, put a few inscriptions saying he built them for such and such purposes.

You won't find evidence of people living for 1000.s of years, except by the generations of Noah, because the Pyramids were built just a few feet too short...
 

Nietzsche

The Last Prussian
Premium Member
There are over 200 myths from all over the world about a major flood. If a worldwide flood never happened, then why are there so many stories about it?
Time for a history lesson.

Every society and culture on Earth grew up around a large body of water. You have to, or else you can't reliably water your crops, and crops are essential for the creation of cities. But, large bodies of water will flood. And when we're talking about extremely early peoples the "world" to them could be measured in a few hundred miles tops. So when a massive flood happened, to the people of the time the entire world was swept away.

From their perspective, the world was indeed flooded. But they had no way to know better.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
When you say known purpose, you mean what they guess is the purpose, and when they guess they were built. Have they stopped suspecting aliens built them??

People lived for 1000 years then. Noah worked on the ark for lets say 100-500 years. Don't you think word would spread across the whole world about this guy who's been building this giant ark for 100's of years, miles and miles from the nearest body of water?
Nope. A human interest article about some nut building a boat? Who'd remember that, especially after a century? I don't even remember the hot gossip of a month ago, in my own town. How were the kangaroos and llamas to know of it -- or to get there, for that matter?
 
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