No Muslims as president, says Ben Carson

[jonathan180iq]

What would be interesting to discover is: How many slaves were bought (ordered) and how many slaves arrived(delivery note). If 100 were ordered and 75 arrived as per delivery note then one could argue that 25% were lost due to horrible conditions.

http://www.textbooks-download.net/the-creation/the-creation-of-the-british-atlantic-world-84055162

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_ship#cite_note-3
In order to achieve profit, the owners of the ships divided their hulls into holds with little headroom, so they could transport as many slaves as possible. Unhygienic conditions, dehydration, dysentery and scurvy led to a high mortality rate, on average 15%[3] and up to a third of captives. Often the ships, also known as Guineamen,[4] transported hundreds of slaves, who were chained tightly to plank beds. For example, the slave ship Henrietta Marie carried about 200 slaves on the long Middle Passage. They were confined to cargo holds with each slave chained with little room to move.[5]

http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Slave_Ships_and_the_Middle_Passage
"About 15 percent of all Africans who made the voyage died, most from the accumulation of brutal treatment and inadequate care from the time of their enslavement in the interior of Africa. Others suffocated in the tightly packed holds, while some committed suicide, refused to eat, or revolted. Crew members, meanwhile, died at even higher rates, also mostly from disease. The victims of violence meted out by their officers, sailors in turn dispensed their own brand of terror to the Africans. For Africans who survived, the Middle Passage began with the separation from family and community and ended with a lifetime of enslavement."

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtid=2&psid=446
"Between 10 and 15 million Africans were forcibly transported across the Atlantic between 1500 and 1900. But this figure grossly understates the actual number of Africans enslaved, killed, or displaced as a result of the slave trade. At least 2 million Africans--10 to 15 percent--died during the infamous "Middle Passage" across the Atlantic. Another 15 to 30 percent died during the march to or confinement along the coast. Altogether, for every 100 slaves who reached the New World, another 40 had died in Africa or during the Middle Passage."

You're looking at anywhere from 10% on the low end to 40% after it's all said and done...

There are also lots of good references to be found in the following link regarding the influx of Islam into the Americas via the slave trade:
https://www.h-net.org/~africa/threads/muslimslaves.html

 

[jonathan180iq]

Okay ask me for any reference you want to hear. Ill do my best to give it to you. I swear by Zeus that Jared Taylor made a video where he had sources for slaves WANTING to serve their master. But it seems it got deleted and im unaware of any other ways i could give this specific information in a legit manner.

In certain Christian circles this belief was given quite a lot of merit, especially during Antebellum America, because it helped the people of the period to justify the action of enslaving other human beings - it also gave some minimal comfort, I'm sure, to those slaves who had adopted their master's Christian faith. If they could find faith in god, and be taught passages about slaves obeying their masters, then they could hopefully find some form of solace in a world in which their value was based entirely on how much crop they could gather...

Ephesians 6:5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This prove that slaves werent abused and that they probably were listend to if they had wishes such as a time for prayer or a time to fast during ramadan.

No, it doesn't. It shows that people can develop feelings of attachment towards someone who doesn't deserve it.
And why would slave owners permit time off to worship and fasting, especially considering Ramadan sometimes occurs during harvest season?

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

http://www.textbooks-download.net/the-creation/the-creation-of-the-british-atlantic-world-84055162

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_ship#cite_note-3
In order to achieve profit, the owners of the ships divided their hulls into holds with little headroom, so they could transport as many slaves as possible. Unhygienic conditions, dehydration, dysentery and scurvy led to a high mortality rate, on average 15%[3] and up to a third of captives. Often the ships, also known as Guineamen,[4] transported hundreds of slaves, who were chained tightly to plank beds. For example, the slave ship Henrietta Marie carried about 200 slaves on the long Middle Passage. They were confined to cargo holds with each slave chained with little room to move.[5]

http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Slave_Ships_and_the_Middle_Passage
"About 15 percent of all Africans who made the voyage died, most from the accumulation of brutal treatment and inadequate care from the time of their enslavement in the interior of Africa. Others suffocated in the tightly packed holds, while some committed suicide, refused to eat, or revolted. Crew members, meanwhile, died at even higher rates, also mostly from disease. The victims of violence meted out by their officers, sailors in turn dispensed their own brand of terror to the Africans. For Africans who survived, the Middle Passage began with the separation from family and community and ended with a lifetime of enslavement."

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtid=2&psid=446
"Between 10 and 15 million Africans were forcibly transported across the Atlantic between 1500 and 1900. But this figure grossly understates the actual number of Africans enslaved, killed, or displaced as a result of the slave trade. At least 2 million Africans--10 to 15 percent--died during the infamous "Middle Passage" across the Atlantic. Another 15 to 30 percent died during the march to or confinement along the coast. Altogether, for every 100 slaves who reached the New World, another 40 had died in Africa or during the Middle Passage."

You're looking at anywhere from 10% on the low end to 40% after it's all said and done...

There are also lots of good references to be found in the following link regarding the influx of Islam into the Americas via the slave trade:
https://www.h-net.org/~africa/threads/muslimslaves.html

I would love a historical reference, written in a letter by the captain himself, some sailor or somebody who happend to travel among these people, where he says 2 out of 10 slaves we were transporting died. Are there any such letters or historical accounts?

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

No, it doesn't. It shows that people can develop feelings of attachment towards someone who doesn't deserve it.
And why would slave owners permit time off to worship and fasting, especially considering Ramadan sometimes occurs during harvest season?

because there must be atleast SOME grounds where the oppressor shows a little appreaciation of his victim. otherwise it would be hate. and this appreciation has to be concerning their faith because nothing else matters to a muslim.

 

[fantome profane]

Okay ask me for any reference you want to hear. Ill do my best to give it to you. I swear by Zeus that Jared Taylor made a video where he had sources for slaves WANTING to serve their master. But it seems it got deleted and im unaware of any other ways i could give this specific information in a legit manner.

Instead of that what I would like to see is a link to a video of you saying that you want to be a slave. If you believe that it is such a great and wonderful thing to be a slave send us a video of you begging to serve your master and give up your personal freedom.

Otherwise I have to conclude that even you don't accept your own argument.

 

[Quetzal]

I would love a historical reference, written in a letter by the captain himself, some sailor or somebody who happend to travel among these people, where he says 2 out of 10 slaves we were transporting died. Are there any such letters or historical accounts?

I find it beyond hypocritical to demand such a narrow scope in regards to a source and make no attempt to provide any yourself. If this is a genuine interest, the burden of study rests with you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

because there must be atleast SOME grounds where the oppressor shows a little appreaciation of his victim. otherwise it would be hate. and this appreciation has to be concerning their faith because nothing else matters to a muslim.

So, I guess they were treated with such great respect and dignity they never rebelled?
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-ame...ss/history/did-african-american-slaves-rebel/
1. Stono Rebellion, 1739. The Stono Rebellion was the largest slave revolt ever staged in the 13 colonies. On Sunday, Sept. 9, 1739, a day free of labor, about 20 slaves under the leadership of a man named Jemmy provided whites with a painful lesson on the African desire for liberty. Many members of the group were seasoned soldiers, either from the Yamasee War or from their experience in their homes in Angola, where they were captured and sold, and had been trained in the use of weapons.
2. The New York City Conspiracy of 1741. With about 1,700 blacks living in a city of some 7,000 whites appearing determined to grind every person of African descent under their heel, some form of revenge seemed inevitable. In early 1741, Fort George in New York burned to the ground. Fires erupted elsewhere in the city — four in one day — and in New Jersey and on Long Island. Several white people claimed they had heard slaves bragging about setting the fires and threatening worse. They concluded that a revolt had been planned by secret black societies and gangs, inspired by a conspiracy of priests and their Catholic minions — white, black, brown, free and slave.
3. Gabriel’s Conspiracy, 1800. Born prophetically in 1776 on the Prosser plantation, just six miles north of Richmond, Va., and home (to use the term loosely) to 53 slaves, a slave named Gabriel would hatch a plot, with freedom as its goal, that was emblematic of the era in which he lived.
4. German Coast Uprising, 1811. If the Haitian Revolution between 1791 and 1804 — spearheaded by Touissant Louverture and fought and won by black slaves under the leadership of Jean-Jacques Dessalines — struck fear in the hearts of slave owners everywhere, it struck a loud and electrifying chord with African slaves in America.
5. Nat Turner’s Rebellion, 1831. Born on Oct. 2, 1800, in Southampton County, Va., the week before Gabriel was hanged, Nat Turner impressed family and friends with an unusual sense of purpose, even as a child. Driven by prophetic visions and joined by a host of followers — but with no clear goals — on August 22, 1831, Turner and about 70 armed slaves and free blacks set off to slaughter the white neighbors who enslaved them.
But it seems like your more likely to believe nonsense such as this:
As the historian Herbert Aptheker informs us in American Negro Slave Revolts, no one put this dishonest, nakedly pro-slavery argument more baldly than the Harvard historian James Schouler in 1882, who attributed this spurious conclusion to ” ‘the innate patience, docility, and child-like simplicity of the negro’ ” who, he felt, was an ” ‘imitator and non-moralist,’ ” learning ” ‘deceit and libertinism with facility,’ ” being ” ‘easily intimidated, incapable of deep plots’ “; in short, Negroes were ” ‘a black servile race, sensuous, stupid, brutish, obedient to the whip, children in imagination.’ ”

 

[jonathan180iq]

I would love a historical reference, written in a letter by the captain himself, some sailor or somebody who happend to travel among these people, where he says 2 out of 10 slaves we were transporting died. Are there any such letters or historical accounts?

The Brookes was a well-documented slave ship...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookes_(ship)

https://books.google.com/books?id=H...#v=onepage&q=letter from a slave ship&f=false

She carried at least 5,162 human beings overseas during her tenure, only delivering 4,559 of them alive.
That's a 12% death rate, which is well inline with everything else you've seen cited in this discussion.

http://www.history.ac.uk/1807commemorated/exhibitions/museums/brookes.html

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

The Brookes was a well-documented slave ship...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookes_(ship)

https://books.google.com/books?id=HpBWHQhN8bQC&pg=PA388&lpg=PA388&dq=letter+from+a+slave+ship&source=bl&ots=MRtq07wHLs&sig=kxLg06yu1gt7iFMaOGvSQ-6bjDI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBmoVChMIzLeMgZ6QyAIVCyseCh0KpQHc#v=onepage&q=letter from a slave ship&f=false

She carried at least 5,162 human beings overseas during her tenure, only delivering 4,559 of them alive.
That's a 12% death rate, which is well inline with everything else you've seen cited in this discussion.

http://www.history.ac.uk/1807commemorated/exhibitions/museums/brookes.html

There are still no contemporary historical accounts such as letters or biographies stating such things.

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

So, I guess they were treated with such great respect and dignity they never rebelled?
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-ame...ss/history/did-african-american-slaves-rebel/
1. Stono Rebellion, 1739. The Stono Rebellion was the largest slave revolt ever staged in the 13 colonies. On Sunday, Sept. 9, 1739, a day free of labor, about 20 slaves under the leadership of a man named Jemmy provided whites with a painful lesson on the African desire for liberty. Many members of the group were seasoned soldiers, either from the Yamasee War or from their experience in their homes in Angola, where they were captured and sold, and had been trained in the use of weapons.
2. The New York City Conspiracy of 1741. With about 1,700 blacks living in a city of some 7,000 whites appearing determined to grind every person of African descent under their heel, some form of revenge seemed inevitable. In early 1741, Fort George in New York burned to the ground. Fires erupted elsewhere in the city — four in one day — and in New Jersey and on Long Island. Several white people claimed they had heard slaves bragging about setting the fires and threatening worse. They concluded that a revolt had been planned by secret black societies and gangs, inspired by a conspiracy of priests and their Catholic minions — white, black, brown, free and slave.
3. Gabriel’s Conspiracy, 1800. Born prophetically in 1776 on the Prosser plantation, just six miles north of Richmond, Va., and home (to use the term loosely) to 53 slaves, a slave named Gabriel would hatch a plot, with freedom as its goal, that was emblematic of the era in which he lived.
4. German Coast Uprising, 1811. If the Haitian Revolution between 1791 and 1804 — spearheaded by Touissant Louverture and fought and won by black slaves under the leadership of Jean-Jacques Dessalines — struck fear in the hearts of slave owners everywhere, it struck a loud and electrifying chord with African slaves in America.
5. Nat Turner’s Rebellion, 1831. Born on Oct. 2, 1800, in Southampton County, Va., the week before Gabriel was hanged, Nat Turner impressed family and friends with an unusual sense of purpose, even as a child. Driven by prophetic visions and joined by a host of followers — but with no clear goals — on August 22, 1831, Turner and about 70 armed slaves and free blacks set off to slaughter the white neighbors who enslaved them.
But it seems like your more likely to believe nonsense such as this:
As the historian Herbert Aptheker informs us in American Negro Slave Revolts, no one put this dishonest, nakedly pro-slavery argument more baldly than the Harvard historian James Schouler in 1882, who attributed this spurious conclusion to ” ‘the innate patience, docility, and child-like simplicity of the negro’ ” who, he felt, was an ” ‘imitator and non-moralist,’ ” learning ” ‘deceit and libertinism with facility,’ ” being ” ‘easily intimidated, incapable of deep plots’ “; in short, Negroes were ” ‘a black servile race, sensuous, stupid, brutish, obedient to the whip, children in imagination.’ ”

And none of them rebelled because of religious reasons, specifically out of muslim reasons. This should prove that the slaves werent muslim.

 

[Quetzal]

And none of them rebelled because of religious reasons, specifically out of muslim reasons. This should prove that the slaves werent muslim.

Hard to rebel when you are chained to a wooden pillar, mate. Off to the ignore list you go, I simply can't take any more of your blissful ignorance. Cheers.

 

[Spiritual Ascendancy]

Article

What do you think?

No religious test will be required for office.

Why does he claim to support the constitution?

 

[jonathan180iq]

And none of them rebelled because of religious reasons, specifically out of muslim reasons. This should prove that the slaves werent muslim.

There were plenty of reported rebellions among slave trading ships - rebellions are rarely won by people who one have their bare hands to fight with...

One of my great-grandfathers, who was part of the great Presbyterian migration of the late 1600s and early 1700s, was part of one such rebellion. Because of his background he, and a few of his mates, were able to overthrow the ship's mutineers who had tossed the captain overboard and attempted to sail the ship to the Caribbean and sell the passengers as slaves...His mini-revolt secured the ship's passage to South Carolina where he and the rest of my ancestors emigrated.

Please note that he was a white man and wan only able to avoid being sold into slavery himself because of some militia training and having not arms and legs NOT chained to the deck of the ship.

Thomas McDill - (1725-1795)

 

[jonathan180iq]

There are still no contemporary historical accounts such as letters or biographies stating such things.

Seriously, man? The actual ship records from 1807 aren't good enough for you?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And none of them rebelled because of religious reasons, specifically out of muslim reasons. This should prove that the slaves werent muslim.

Why make religion the motive when you have a very dire circumstance that is a greater common factor?
And, do you realize the implications of saying there were no African Muslim slaves, even though Africa has a large Muslim community?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#Slaves
By 1800, some 500,000 Africans arrived in what became the United States. Historians estimate that between 15 to 30 percent of all enslaved African men, and less than 15 percent of the enslaved African women, were Muslims. These enslaved Muslims stood out from their compatriots because of their "resistance, determination and education".[41]
Samuel S. Hill, Charles H. Lippy, Charles Reagan Wilson (2005). Encyclopedia of religion in the South. Macon, Georgia: Mercer University Press. p. 394. [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Book_Number']ISBN 0-86554-758-0.[/URL]

 

[Princeps Eugenius]

Why make religion the motive when you have a very dire circumstance that is a greater common factor?
And, do you realize the implications of saying there were no African Muslim slaves, even though Africa has a large Muslim community?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#Slaves
By 1800, some 500,000 Africans arrived in what became the United States. Historians estimate that between 15 to 30 percent of all enslaved African men, and less than 15 percent of the enslaved African women, were Muslims. These enslaved Muslims stood out from their compatriots because of their "resistance, determination and education".[41]
Samuel S. Hill, Charles H. Lippy, Charles Reagan Wilson (2005). Encyclopedia of religion in the South. Macon, Georgia: Mercer University Press. p. 394. [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Book_Number']ISBN 0-86554-758-0.[/URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#cite_note-hill394-41

As i said before, i really dont like repeating myself, muslims usually dont enslave other muslims. its forbidden. and most if not all were brought from arab speaking muslims of north africa etc.