**Muslims Only**Dear Muslims, I have a question.

[ConfusedKuri]

Rape is rarely about sex, Bringing Truth. It's about control. If covering women really prevented rape, Muslim-populated countries would have no rape. Please don't tell me how few rapes happen in Muslim countries, because we all know how underreported rape is in general, and even more so in Muslim-populated countries.

Reading this article (and many like it) I don't blame women for not reporting rape in these societies:

Stigmatization of Rape & Honor Killings | WISE Muslim Women

I found this interesting:



in the same article, however:



It's so sad that these people still treat rape like a sex act, and blame the WOMAN for violent acts against them. Now tell me again, Bringing Truth, how does wearing a burqa protect these women? Looks like it's just more material to rip off.

Don't forget about males who also happened to be victims of rape...I really don't see how wearing any type of garment is supposed to protect you from sexual assaults, it's just a cultural perception imho. And remember some of these nutters even go as far as saying women who did not cover up properly deserved to be raped :areyoucra

 

[islam abduallah]

Women don't usually rape men but they can sure seduce them.

if she is wearing niqab (covering face) how she could seduce them ?

 

[Bringing Truth]

Rape is rarely about sex, Bringing Truth. It's about control. If covering women really prevented rape, Muslim-populated countries would have no rape. Please don't tell me how few rapes happen in Muslim countries, because we all know how underreported rape is in general, and even more so in Muslim-populated countries.

Reading this article (and many like it) I don't blame women for not reporting rape in these societies:

Stigmatization of Rape & Honor Killings | WISE Muslim Women

I found this interesting:



in the same article, however:



It's so sad that these people still treat rape like a sex act, and blame the WOMAN for violent acts against them. Now tell me again, Bringing Truth, how does wearing a burqa protect these women? Looks like it's just more material to rip off.

woa. woa.. woa..

First of all, I am not here telling which is scholars are right that niqab is not compulsory and which is wrong.

Now, you need to define what "rape" means. Which is explicit.


moving on, where did I blame women? I mentioned the male here aswell, "And males are commanded to protect their gaze."

if you put a bit of more understanding, you will know what was my purpose of writing in my previous posts. There is no mentioning where I am blaming women, there is no mentioning that I support women wearing niqab or not.

Look at the defination of rape : Rape | Define Rape at Dictionary.com


When quran and hadith comes, there is no need of thinking of ourselves

 

[islam abduallah]

prophet Mohamed peace up on him had said "Islam began strange and will return strange as it began so give glad tidings to the strangers"
honestly i feel compassion towards Muslims here who's trying to Justify the Burqa wearing, because they are so careful o invite people to Islam

there are Many hadiths which proves that women should cover and it's not prohibited for women to cover her face during Hajj, what's prohibited is to wear tight face covering which could depict the parts of the face as Asmaa daughter of abu bakr said that during the Hajj if the men is become close to them they covered their faces by wide cloths till they passed away and that means that it's forbidden to show the face in front of men even during the Hajj

but i an't deny that some of the scholars say it's not obligation for women to do that it's just preferable

so why the Muslim women cover their faces?? the answer simply is "because it's Allah's law, she is obeying allah by that, she couldn't oppose Allah's order to her "

Muslims don't worship their minds, they worship Allah, what Allah ordered them to do they said we listen and obey, after that we can understand the wisdom of that law, but regardless the result of seeking the wisdom we will do the law

so what's the wisdom of Niqab, it's the concept of Modesty and dignity of women

the concept of modesty is different between different cultures, for example if you talk to one of the women who used to go to the beaches as a naked, she will tell you that there's no relation between modesty and being naked in public, her mind is formatted like that, and who wears Bikini she says that she's more modest than naked, and it would go on till you reach the top of modesty which is Niqab so Allah selects the top of modesty for the muslim women
see here what mark Eduard said about niqab banning in france
[youtube]KFgB3WXd6Vo[/youtube]
‫

also the Muslim women doesn't allow immoral, dirty men to look at her to enjoy her face, looking to her isn't for sale and this is the top of diginity

i hope that i didn't break the forum rules, i just saying why the Muslims women wear niqab, i'm not meaning to offend other women, don't get my words wrong

 

[ConfusedKuri]

if she is wearing niqab (covering face) how she could seduce them ?

There is men who find veils sexually attractive and there's sure a lot of prostitutes in the middle east who wear a niqab in order to keep their anonymity.

 

[Bringing Truth]

There is men who find veils sexually attractive and there's sure a lot of prostitutes in the middle east who wear a niqab in order to keep their anonymity.

well not "all" middle east is filled up of prostitutes, in some countries there are none. ^^

The person who find viel attractive would be an idiot, as he may not know if it is an old women being the viel, lol.

 

[islam abduallah]

There is men who find veils sexually attractive and there's sure a lot of prostitutes in the middle east who wear a niqab in order to keep their anonymity.

Aha, so if i find a thieve who is praying, i have to stop praying in order not to be like the thieve, is that a logic?

you are a Muslims, do you read that verse well before "It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error"
وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ وَلَا مُؤْمِنَةٍ إِذَا قَضَى اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ أَمْرًا أَن يَكُونَ لَهُمُ الْخِيَرَةُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِمْ ۗ وَمَن يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا مُّبِينًا
Quran 33:36

if we find an evidence from Quran or hadith that ordered us to do something, we have to obey and then if we like we can ask why Allah ordered us by that

what's your opinion sister about that?

 

[.lava]

Why do some women cover their face? I can understand covering the head and dressing modestly, but the face? I do not understand this.

according to what i know covering face is not command of God and it should not be practiced as if it was. seems like a traditional habit

.

 

[elmarna]

While the quran is wise in the considering of the world of sexual response.
This thread seems to be forgeting what modesty can do and focus on desire.
The human animal is designed to desire for the act of continueing the spieces.
As a woman I find nothing wrong to wear something if it will help shatan's influence not find them. In the primitive sense man is not likely "targeting" me.
In the fact I too can desire. It is best to turn to the quran and realize that as we are the sum of the thinking animal we can respond with restraint and keep the sexual resources in their proper place for what god gave them to us for.
Being a american - the response is not the same in men in their reaction. I think it is because of the "media overload" - satuateing the country with so much skin, they are not likely to give the primitive formula a lot of empasis.
They do tend to have their own ways of what each individual catorgorizes as sexy or unapealing with a wide choice of opinions!
I find nothing wrong with the use of clothing - american or middle east as long as the ways of modesty are considered. As well as the ways of humanity!

 

[TashaN]

The Qur'aan states, "Do not go close to Zina."

The emphasis is on closing the doors and avenues leading to Zina. The face is the foremost part of a woman's beauty. A man is first attracted to the beauty of a woman and then endervours to have her. Once he is caught up with the sight of a woman's beauty, his heart and mind is consumed with that all the time. He now endervours to catch any glimpse at her. Shari'ah understands the nature of man and issues guidance according to his nature and instincts. The days of morality are gone when it was common for a man to lower his gaze in front of a woman. There is no or very little resistance nowadays. Therefore, the latter Fuqahaa have ruled that a woman should cover her face to close the doors of any evil subsequent to seeing the face of a woman.

They were human beings, and we are human beings. They had desires, so we do. Read some of the poems made by Muslims in the past to know how many of them had lust for women whether they were covering their faces or not. So i don't buy your extreme views which you have copied and pasted from i don't know where.

I advice you to think for yourself bro. Don't follow blindly.

 

[TashaN]

Covering the face for Muslim women is one of the issues where scholars have more than one opinion

The mainstream opinion is that it is not a requirement

And what confirms this opinion is that in Makkah, while a women is performing Hajj or Umrah in a state of Ihram, she is prohibited from covering her face

But there is a second opinion which says that if a woman is very beautiful and that her beauty which is apparent in her face would cause fitnah, then she would be advised to cover her face in the presence of "foreign" men

A third opinion is that she should cover her face in all cases in the presence of "foreign" men

The first mainstream opinion is the one which most Muslims follow

I totally agree.

 

[Bringing Truth]

They were human beings, and we are human beings. They had desires, so we do. Read some of the poems made by Muslims in the past to know how many of them had lust for women whether they were covering their faces or not. So i don't buy your extreme views which you have copied and pasted from i don't know where.

I advice you to think for yourself bro. Don't follow blindly.

do you know what, these are not my words. But the words of scholars and muftis in islam,

 

[ConfusedKuri]

Aha, so if i find a thieve who is praying, i have to stop praying in order not to be like the thieve, is that a logic?

you are a Muslims, do you read that verse well before "It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error"
وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ وَلَا مُؤْمِنَةٍ إِذَا قَضَى اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ أَمْرًا أَن يَكُونَ لَهُمُ الْخِيَرَةُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِمْ ۗ وَمَن يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا مُّبِينًا
Quran 33:36

if we find an evidence from Quran or hadith that ordered us to do something, we have to obey and then if we like we can ask why Allah ordered us by that

what's your opinion sister about that?

Your point is?

 

[islam abduallah]

Your point is?

as we are Muslims, if it's proven by Quran or correct hadith that women have to cover their faces they have to do even if they couldn't understand why Allah ordered them to do that

we are praying five times per day why not to be six, we do what allah ordered us to do, he knows what fix us more than ourselves, do you agree with me about that ?

 

[ConfusedKuri]

I have yet to see a proof that niqab is farz.

 

[islam abduallah]

I have yet to see a proof that niqab is farz.

i'm not talking here is Niqab is farz or not i'm just talking about the concept of Obedience to Allah, and said if it's proven that Niqab is farz, we have to obey that all what i meant


but any way i'll try to translate the proves that support that niqab is farz but tomorrow inshallah

salam sister for now

 

[ConfusedKuri]

O this will become interesting...

 

[beenie]

as we are Muslims, if it's proven by Quran or correct hadith that women have to cover their faces they have to do even if they couldn't understand why Allah ordered them to do that

we are praying five times per day why not to be six, we do what allah ordered us to do, he knows what fix us more than ourselves, do you agree with me about that ?

I'm sorry, but what?

i'm not talking here is Niqab is farz or not i'm just talking about the concept of Obedience to Allah, and said if it's proven that Niqab is farz, we have to obey that all what i meant


but any way i'll try to translate the proves that support that niqab is farz but tomorrow inshallah

salam sister for now

Good luck with that. Niqab is not required, brother. The Qur'an barely mentions hijab, let alone niqab. Why are you trying to prove what's not there?

Wasalam.

 

[ConfusedKuri]

Lets wait for his evidence I'm very curious, I wonder if he's going to post the ayaatein of Surah an-Noor with the inserted explanation of scholars in brackets "(draw veil around their face)"

O I would like to add, I'm a Shia Muslim, so if you bring me any of the Bukhari Hadeeth which are considered "sahih" I won't accept them anyways.

 

[Bringing Truth]

Lets wait for his evidence I'm very curious, I wonder if he's going to post the ayaatein of Surah an-Noor with the inserted explanation of scholars in brackets "(draw veil around their face)"

O I would like to add, I'm a Shia Muslim, so if you bring me any of the Bukhari Hadeeth which are considered "sahih" I won't accept them anyways.

May I ask what brings you to shia? and why do you deny bukhair "saheeh" hadith?