Muslims: discussion about homosexuality

[Gharib]

It seems we understand "natural" differently. For us, natural is the straight fitrah and disposition. For them natural includes the healthy and the pathological, the normal and abnormal, etc.

this is a good point. when they don't see a particular action wrong they label it natural, such a homosexuality, the reason why they see this as OK is because it involves 2 consenting adults, meaning it is acceptable because it doesn't hurt anyone.

rape on the other hand is not natural, because as a result of it, one of the 2 people involved is hurt. therefore this could not possibly be from god. thats their reasoning.

And according to their definition, I don't know how the natural argument is used to prove homosexuality as moral.

the word natural basically is the same as fitrah, a god given thing. so by labeling homosexuality as a god given thing (natural) then they say thats how it is meant to be (ie. it's OK to love the same sex). this is the main point that i dissagree with pro-gays. if you read this again you can see what i mean:

"when they don't see a particular action wrong they label it natural, such a homosexuality, the reason why they see this as OK is because it involves 2 consenting adults, meaning it is acceptable because it doesn't hurt anyone.

rape on the other hand is not natural, because as a result of it, one of the 2 people involved is hurt. therefore this could not possibly be from god. thats their reasoning."

Moreover, it's really sad to see some people view animals behavior as their moral reference, "See, it occurs in animals"!! :areyoucra

yes i agree. when they use animal behaviour to justify that of humans, it just shows how low some humans can go. they turn to the animals when they cant get their idea of homosexuality being natural through to you. in such cases there are many similar examples against that kind of reasoning.

if something is OK for humans to do because animals do it, then it is OK for a parent to kill his/her children because animals are doing it. it is ok to steal because animals are doing it, it is ok to rape because animals are doing it, adultery is ok because animals are doing it. etc etc.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I have thought long and hard about this issue, and I agree with most here. Especially Fatihah. People who support or are part of the homosexual community often cite it being natural as a defense for the behaviour. Also, they say they are born like that. A long time ago I thought about that statement. Would so many homosexuals say that if indeed they didn't think or know it to be true?

My simple conclusion is that we are neither born heterosexual nor homosexual. Since Allah give us the free will to make that decision on our own it is ultimately a choice no matter a persons inclination to it.

More importantly I feel it is a spritual malady and a serious waswasah from shaitan towards the very young children. Many children across that world are born out of wedlock, so they are born of a sinful situation. Their coming into being was a result of haram action and so therefore could not be blessed or protected by Allah. YOu know we muslims make dua for the spiritual safeguarding of our offspring. However, even though the non-muslims may not involve themselves in that specifically, their wedlock is a means of some protection. Meaning the child was at least conceived in a halal manner.

I say all that to say that, most children are born with a severe lack of any protection against some of shaitans most evil whisperings. To attack an innocent child with feelings of homosexuality even at an age where most children are not aware of their sexuality is a horrendous thing.

Muslims do indeed suffer from the same types of spiritual maladies that many non-muslims do because many of us live the same types of lifestyles. So while it's disappointed it should come as little surprise to indeed find Muslims either actively engaged in homosexual activity, or battling with it.

 

[Abu Rashid]

as-salaamu alaykum,

There could never be a "homosexual muslim", since adopting the homosexual lifestyle would mean rejecting the Islamic one.

The distinction needs to be made I think between an act and a lifestyle. If someone committed a sin, it doesn't mean he rejected Islam, yet if he adopted the lifestyle, then he'd have to make the entire idea halal in his beliefs, which would take him outside of the fold of Islam.

 

[Badran]

I don't think that anybody is be born a homosexual. I believe that is a choice people make, and that choice is affected by incidents that happen through their lives.

I also believe that being a homosexual doesn't mean that you are not a muslim. To be a muslim you must believe in god and Muhammad peace be upon him, and accept all god's rules.
However, if you don't comply to some of the rules that god made, that doesn't mean you are not a muslim. you see, it depends on his intention. If someone is a homosexual because he believes that there is nothing wrong with that, and that god didn't forbid that, then he is not a muslim (Kafer) because he refused one of god's rules, and he remains so until he redeems himself.

But if someone is a homosexual, and knows that that is wrong and admits that, then he didn't refuse any of god's rules, he just didn't comply to that one. Just like someone who have sex all the time without being married, it is a terrible sin, however if he still admits that he is doing something wrong then he didn't refuse any of god's rules.

 

[bowingtoGod]

salaam Alykum
I understand that it is not allowed. And saying it is not forbidden does take you outside the fold of Islam, it isn't really fair to compare it to not being able to be with a kaffir.
Whereas a heterosexual Muslim can not marry a non believer (with some exceptions), they are still allowed to find that kind of love. A homosexual can not find that love with someone of the same sex, and it would be incredibly difficult if not down right impossible to find that kind of love with the opposite sex.

 

[Bismillah]

I have a question. I always believed it was a greater sin to commit sodomy as male than a female. Could someone please explain why?

 

[Hijabihippie]

Here's a link that's pertinent to the question at hand:

Coming Out Twice: Sexuality and Gender in Islam | Sexuality/Gender | Religion Dispatches

I've met Scott Siraj al-Haqq Kugle, author of the book "Homosexuality In Islam". He presented a session at a conference I attended. He's the first Muslim to publish on the subject, by doing some of the first scholarly/academic work. He's got chops.

 

[ConfusedKuri]

I don't think that anybody is be born a homosexual. I believe that is a choice people make, and that choice is affected by incidents that happen through their lives.

I also believe that being a homosexual doesn't mean that you are not a muslim. To be a muslim you must believe in god and Muhammad peace be upon him, and accept all god's rules.
However, if you don't comply to some of the rules that god made, that doesn't mean you are not a muslim. you see, it depends on his intention. If someone is a homosexual because he believes that there is nothing wrong with that, and that god didn't forbid that, then he is not a muslim (Kafer) because he refused one of god's rules, and he remains so until he redeems himself.

But if someone is a homosexual, and knows that that is wrong and admits that, then he didn't refuse any of god's rules, he just didn't comply to that one. Just like someone who have sex all the time without being married, it is a terrible sin, however if he still admits that he is doing something wrong then he didn't refuse any of god's rules.

Indeed and at the end of the day it is our niyat that counts, plus our observance of other religious rules such as praying, fasting, giving charity etc.

 

[beenie]

Indeed and at the end of the day it is our niyat that counts, plus our observance of other religious rules such as praying, fasting, giving charity etc.

So true.

 

[Matemkar]

[youtube]VRRsCtJLTQo[/youtube]
'Islam and Homosexuality' - Dr. Farrokh Sekaleshfar - YouTube

 

[Aamer]

I have done counseling and life coaching for years with all kinds of people. I can tell you that there is a story behind every homosexual. They weren't born that way. Either they are seeking revenge on one of their parents, who did not treat them good, or they were sexually molested as children (very sad but far too prevalent) or they have a very bad impression of a certain gender based on childhood experiences. It almost always leads back to childhood and especially parents though. Many of them are not bad people, just very mentally troubled. But I believe we were all born heterosexual. It's natural for boys to like girls and girls to like boys. When there's a deviation, there are deep, dark reasons behind it.

 

[beenie]

I have done counseling and life coaching for years with all kinds of people. I can tell you that there is a story behind every homosexual. They weren't born that way. Either they are seeking revenge on one of their parents, who did not treat them good, or they were sexually molested as children (very sad but far too prevalent) or they have a very bad impression of a certain gender based on childhood experiences. It almost always leads back to childhood and especially parents though. Many of them are not bad people, just very mentally troubled. But I believe we were all born heterosexual. It's natural for boys to like girls and girls to like boys. When there's a deviation, there are deep, dark reasons behind it.

There are so many fallacies in this comment I can't even tell if you're being serious.

 

[seeking4truth]

Politically incorrect though it may be, I think that homosexuality, even if caused by genetic factors is an abbaration of nature.
It is either a social or genetic disorder.
In other cases such disorders might be treated to put them right.

It goes completely against natural reproduction by which our species survives, and on which the basis of all social structure has developed.

So don't be surprised that society begins to break down until we are once again reduced to the bare essentials so that we can begin again, as in the days of Noah.

 

[F0uad]

I think it can come ''naturally" (not born with, there is no Homo-DNA that i am aware off) and i also think that society can shape you to become one.
However homo-sexual acts should not be followed, you can be one but you have to fight your desires like all other Muslims do.