Mujahid and AV

[Aqualung]

This is a discussion that I'm moving here so my thread doesn't go off topic. I posted it in discussions because that's where I thought it git best. If it changes to a debate, a mod can move it. I don't really care where it goes.

 

[Aqualung]

This is what Majuhid said first

When did Jesus ever say he was to die as the plan of salvation or he was the sacrificial Lamb and what I mean is not that he spoke on behalf of God but I mean if God is the author of salvation and the only savior as stated in Isaiah 43:10 how can people say Jesus is the author of confusion. And why does God need a sacrifice as he states in Hosea 6:6 that he does not. When does He, Jesus say God gave him through his sacrifice the power of salvation.

As for the questions:

Why was the original King James which was published in 1611 which according to most Christians is the inspired word of God have 80 books and then in 1885 the Bishop of Canteburry took those books out leaving only 66. Who gave him the authority to change God's word?

Which son of Abraham was born first and who was the covenant made with?

When did the Holy Ghost ever ride a camel? Isaiah 21:7?

Why are there so many contradictions in the bible? In terms of places occurences which are supposed to be significant in terms of dogma.

Who wrote the bible or compiled all the books?

Why did it take Protestants 1500 years to disect from Catholics and when they did where the 73 books they have in their bible not inspired by God correctly?

Why would an innocent man die for the sins of the guilty when the bible say in Ezichiel 23 that every man is accountable for his own sins.

How can Isaac be the only son?

Did Matthew write Matthew and did Moses write the first 5 books and if he did how did he write his own obituary and why are these books in third person?

Why is the Egyptian Sun God Osiris story the same as Jesus?

Why historically is the Creation of Christianity credited to Emperor Constantine who was a sun worshipper?

Why is God's name not listed as the father of Jesus in the two Geneologies of Jesus and why do they contradict each other. And how can a man who only Father according to Christians was God you have 66 other guys listed as a part of his Geneology?

Why does Paul, who was a Gentile, contradict the teaches of Jesus by say ing all those under the law are under a curse?

Why when God says he does not give prophethood to sinners do prophets such as Lot and Noah and others commit sins such as incest and adultery

Is God Eternal and All powerful and if he is why do Christians say he rested after creating the heavens and the earth.

Why are the oldest known manuscripts which are in Latin and Greek dated 300 years after Jesus and some of the people who are responsible never met him and no documentation is taken from any of his disciples.

Why is the Gospel of Barnabus which is a historical archaelogical find not accepted by Christians when the scrolls were found buried with him and they are written in the original language that Jesus spoke and the Jesus testifies of him being a man of God and to recieve him when he comes to you not accepted by the church.

Why is the common man not allowed to see these manuscripts that the Vatican used to create the bible so we would be able to check to see if there translations are correct.

Why do some Christians believe in a trinity and some believe Jesus is just the son of God and some belief Jesus is God and they all reading the same book. How come they can not agree and the texts keep changing from year to year author to author. Why are verses taken out and added in?

If there are contradictions can the bible be 100% absolutely the true word of God. And do not lies cause confusion and we all know who is the author of that.

These are some of the 100's maybe 1000's of questions. If you would like me to go through all the contradictions I can

Thanks for your help and if you can not answer them ask your teachers in religion maybe they can shed light on it for me so we can both find out these answers together

 

[michel]

This is what Majuhid said first

And you want us to debate/discuss this ? - I'll see you in two months time, with some answers..............:bonk:

 

[Aqualung]

And then this is how the discussion progressed:

When did Jesus ever say he was to die as the plan of salvation

Psalm 40:7 = THEN SAID I [Jesus], LO, I COME: IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME.

Hebrews 10:7 = THEN SAID I, LO, I COME...TO DO THY WILL, O GOD

or he was the sacrificial Lamb

John 1:29 = THE NEXT DAY JOHN SEETH JESUS COMING UNTO HIM, AND SAITH, BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD, WHICH TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.

and what I mean is not that he spoke on behalf of God but I mean if God is the author of salvation and the only savior as stated in Isaiah 43:10 how can people say Jesus is the author of confusion.

Genesis 22:8 = AND ABRAHAM SAID, MY SON, GOD WILL PROVIDE HIMSELF A LAMB...(Note the play on words.)

And why does God need a sacrifice as he states in Hosea 6:6 that he does not.

He's talking about animal sacrifices here. He'd rather have mercy than a sacrifice. In other words, it's better not to do something bad, than to do it and be forgiven.

When does He, Jesus say God gave him through his sacrifice the power of salvation

John 17:2 = AND THOU HAST GIVEN HIM POWER OVER ALL FLESH, THAT HE SHOULD GIVE ETERNAL LIFE TO AS MANY AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM.

 

[Aqualung]

And here's the second part of AV's answer"

As for the questions:

Why was the original King James which was published in 1611 which according to most Christians is the inspired word of God have 80 books and then in 1885 the Bishop of Canteburry took those books out leaving only 66. Who gave him the authority to change God's word?

God did in Psalm 12:6-7. To refine silver, you heat it until it turns liquid, then all the impurities rise to the top, and are sloughed off. The "impurities" of the 14 books of the Apocrypha were sloughed off.

Which son of Abraham was born first and who was the covenant made with?

Technically, the first son was Ishmael, born to Hagar and Abram in Genesis 16; but God changed Abram's name to Abraham in Genesis 17, and it was through Sarah and Abraham that Isaac was born.

The covenant was made with Isaac - (Genesis 17:19)

When did the Holy Ghost ever ride a camel? Isaiah 21:7?

I don't see that in that verse, nor am I familiar with the Holy Ghost riding a camel.

Why are there so many contradictions in the bible? In terms of places occurences which are supposed to be significant in terms of dogma.

There are none. A contradiction is only a contradiction if one statement proves the other statement false. Otherwise, it's called a paradox.

Who wrote the bible or compiled all the books?

Various men wrote it over a period of time, but God superintended the work. He Himself calls it the Word of God, not the Words of Men

Why did it take Protestants 1500 years to disect from Catholics and when they did where the 73 books they have in their bible not inspired by God correctly?

Protestants protested against various writs of the Catholic Church. They had their "days in court" so to speak, and exist today only in name.

Their bible is not inspired by God. Neither is my King James Bible. Inspiration, per se, ended in 96 AD.

Why would an innocent man die for the sins of the guilty when the bible say in Ezichiel 23 that every man is accountable for his own sins.

Every man IS accountable for his own sins; but Jesus took the penalty upon Himself willingly. Technically it is known as the Vicarious Sacrifice.

Did Matthew write Matthew and did Moses write the first 5 books

Yes

and if he did how did he write his own obituary

Joshua tacked on the epilogue

and why are these books in third person?

That was his (and Luke's) own personal style of writing.

Why is the Egyptian Sun God Osiris story the same as Jesus?

Satan is a great imitator. He will actually convince people that he is god during the Tribulation

 

[Aqualung]

Okay, I'm not going to transfer the rest. It's a long one. Please keep the discussion of this stuff in this thread. Thanks!

 

[Aqualung]

despite the name, this forum is open to all

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

despite the name, this forum is open to all

Ok I finally found it what thanks again for your help Aqualung and anyone who has read this thread and can help me answer these questions I would really appreciate it. I am just very unsure and it is due mostly to the Christians I talk to in my area. Unfortunately most of them know very little about their bible or what it says and whenever I ask question I always get. I don't know or I'll get back to you and they never do so anyones help would be appreciated.

 

[Aqualung]

Ok I finally found it what thanks again for your help Aqualun

Yeah, I was wondering if you ever would. I'll take you on, but can you keep it to one question per post? It's a lot easier to answer more in depth if you do that.

So if you just start me off by posting one question, I'll answer that, and we can go from there.

 

[Bennettresearch]

Hi Mujahid,

You are asking some very intrigueing questions and these same questions are being asked by some Christians who are trying to extract the true Jesus from within the books that were written about Him. These are the works of men regardless of being inspired by God. Jesus did not write a Gospel so that leaves the entire subject in the hands of those that came after Him. Since you are a Muslim, I could ask some questions of you.

1. Who was Mohammed to write about Jesus?

2. Why is it taught that Muslims believe that Jesus will validate their religion when HE Comes back?

3. Can you accept that Jesus was THE prophet of the ages and that He is even greater than Mohammed?

I would be interested in your answer to these questions. It is most likely that Jesus will teach His own religion and possibly not validate any religion that has misappropriated HIS name.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Hi Mujahid,

You are asking some very intrigueing questions and these same questions are being asked by some Christians who are trying to extract the true Jesus from within the books that were written about Him. These are the works of men regardless of being inspired by God. Jesus did not write a Gospel so that leaves the entire subject in the hands of those that came after Him. Since you are a Muslim, I could ask some questions of you.

1. Who was Mohammed to write about Jesus?

Mohammed was a man appointed by God to give his message to the world. To fulfill the prophecy in John 16. How when HE the spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all truth. HE will tell you of many things to come, HE will not speak of his own but whatever HE hears he shall speak, He will also testify of Jesus. Mohammed did all these things Mohammed is only metioned two or three times in the bible Jesus is mentioned more than 25 times. He also talked of his blessed and chaste mother Mary who is according to Allah the greatest woman in creation. Why would an arab tell his people the mother of their enemy is the greatest. Mohammed was a man of upstanding moral character and from the noblest family among his people. He is a descendent from the bloodline of Abraham(father of all the prophets) through the lineage of Ishmael who like his father was a prophet of God. Now Mohammed did not know who Jesus was Why? He could not read or write so he had no knowledge of any scriptures. His people worshipped many Gods like the one's all the other prophets came to destroy. He was given the message of God through the Angel Gabriel who we know to be the one to give all the prophets the commands of God. His character and humble backgrounds as a shepard which is what all prophets did as a line of work preceding prophethood.

2. Why is it taught that Muslims believe that Jesus will validate their religion when HE Comes back?

Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed all taught the sane religion of Abraham which foundation was the worship of the one true God of all that exists. And that this God is the only one to be worshipped. As it states in the bible. Jesus said the lord your God is one God, and he never said to worship him or that he was the begotten or cired son of God. All he said was to keep the commandments and listen to his words only. Nowadays depending on which Christian group some worship Jesus as God some just the son of God, all contradicting each other in the scriptures and if the scriptures have contradictions or lies in them we say it cannot be from God so Mohammed came to bring us back to the true Abrahamic beliefs but Mohammed said even the muslims will differ as time goes on with what Mohammed said and did not the Qur'an. So when Jesus comes back he will put the people back on the Abrahamic belief of one God and the teachings of the Comforter who is just like him because he said I will send another comforter. Meaning like him a man, a man who loved and feared God and was just and righteous and removed idol worshipping.

3. Can you accept that Jesus was THE prophet of the ages and that He is even greater than Mohammed?

We accept that Jesus was the prophet of his age to his people as he stated I have not been sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. and Mohammed and Jesus are the same to us it is just that Mohammed came after Jesus and if you live in the lifetime after that individual has come he is your Prophet. Similary but not really the same because these guys are no where near the moral character of Jesus and Moses. When my daughter was born our President was Clinton. When my sons were born the President is Bush. Now Clinton is and was a president but he was not my sons president. He is still respected and on the same level people still address him as Mr. President. I hope the analogy makes sense.

I would be interested in your answer to these questions. It is most likely that Jesus will teach His own religion and possibly not validate any religion that has misappropriated HIS name.

Jesus will teach the religion of the one true God which is submission doing as your God commands you. The religion that all the prophets taught. Because Jesus did all God commanded with the powers God gave him so by definition he is a muslim. The issue is are the Christians following Jesus or are they following Paul. Because Paul who was a Roman a culture which was intrinched in Sun worship and idol worship he changed the religion of Jesus to try and convert the Gentiles. They did not want to give up stuff so he had to change a few things. Soon I am going to start a thread about these and other issues but I am real busy with work I may do it on Monday when I am off and I would love for you to join in the discussion for I hate to debate because Allah says to not to dispute with the Christians (people of the book)over these matters accept in a way that is best. I hope this helps please let me know if any more questions.

 

[Scott1]

He also talked of his blessed and chaste mother Mary who is according to Allah the greatest woman in creation.

I like this...

Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed all taught the sane religion of Abraham which foundation was the worship of the one true God of all that exists. And that this God is the only one to be worshipped.

Allah be praised!

Peace be with you,
Scott

 

[Omer]

Hi there Bennett
actually , saying to validate any religion....doesnt sound correct.actually Jesus Christ's second coming mean that bridges will be built between islamic and christian beliefs and unity will be established between believers of different faith systems...thats the real meaning behind the islamic belief of Jesus' second coming, i think.

Regards,