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Mormonism and Racial Supremacy

HopefulNikki

Active Member
As per Becky's request, I moved this rabbit trail discussion (which started in the thread on God's gender) here. Becky said that it has never been a doctrine on the Mormon church that black people are cursed by God and that's why they have dark skin. I'm still collecting info on this subject, so I'll be adding sources to it periodically, but I wanted to start with this one:


Elder MARK E. PETERSON

Race Problems -- As They Affect The Church
Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level,
Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.
God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment of God would be in sin. Those who willfully sin with their eyes open to this wrong will not be surprised to find that they will be separated from the presence of God in the world to come. This is spiritual death....
The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. "No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood" (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a "Nation of Priesthood holders"....
The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded by some of the arguments that have been put forth....We who teach in the Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not to be led astray by the philosophies of men on this subject....
I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, "First we pity, then endure, then embrace"....
Now let's talk about segregation again for a few moments. Was segregation a wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of segregation....
When he told Enoch not preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were black, the Lord engaged in segregation. When He cursed the descendants of Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in segregation....
Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He segregated them....
The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the <A href="http://lds-mormon.com/lam-ind.shtml">Lamanites and the Negro we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that he placed a dark skin upon them as a curse -- as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse. And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there....
Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, "what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Only here we have the reverse of the thing -- what God hath separated, let not man bring together again." Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood.... This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in their lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa
Well, Becky, you said you hadn't heard this before...now you have. :(
--if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.

For those Mormons who are not racist (and I know most of you aren't)...what is wrong with this guy's explanation here?
 

HopefulNikki

Active Member
I'm also interested to see what you guys say about these verses from the Book of Mormon:

2 Nephi 5:21 For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

Alma 3:6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
HopefulNikki said:
As per Becky's request, I moved this rabbit trail discussion (which started in the thread on God's gender) here. Becky said that it has never been a doctrine on the Mormon church that black people are cursed by God and that's why they have dark skin. I'm still collecting info on this subject, so I'll be adding sources to it periodically, but I wanted to start with this one:


Well, Becky, you said you hadn't heard this before...now you have. :(


For those Mormons who are not racist (and I know most of you aren't)...what is wrong with this guy's explanation here?
Mark E. Petersen was voicing his own opinion and was not stating LDS doctrine.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
HopefulNikki said:
I'm also interested to see what you guys say about these verses from the Book of Mormon:

2 Nephi 5:21 For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

Alma 3:6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.
I have some good information on this topic and would be happy to share it. Unfortunately, it's not online and I'm at work right now, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.
 

spacemonkey

Pneumatic Spiritualist
Snowbear said:
Was Mr Peterson considered a prophet?

I suppose that depends on who you ask. If he was at one time head of the Mormon chuch, then yes, he would have been considered a prophet by other Mormons. I'm pretty certain that no Mormon religous leader is a considered a prophet outside of the Mormon church though.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Is it a good Idea to for one faith to debate another faiths beliefs?
Discuss yes Debate no.
It so easily leads to an open attack
I am sure that is not what this forum is about.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Snowbear said:
Was Mr Peterson considered a prophet?

No, Mark E. Peterson was not the prophet. Also, he was giving this talk at an educational conference, not an official LDS setting. Also, Katzpur was right. He was giving his opinion, not stating Mormon doctrine. Our doctrince can be found in our canon: The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants. What Peterson said is in none of those.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
spacemonkey said:
I suppose that depends on who you ask. If he was at one time head of the Mormon chuch, then yes, he would have been considered a prophet by other Mormons. I'm pretty certain that no Mormon religous leader is a considered a prophet outside of the Mormon church though.
Well, I guess I should have been more specific in my question, then ;)

Does/did the mormon church consider Mr Peterson a prophet of God?

< edit: thanks, Nuts... you answered my question ;) >
 

spacemonkey

Pneumatic Spiritualist
Terrywoodenpic said:
Is it a good Idea to for one faith to debate another faiths beliefs?
Discuss yes Debate no.
It so easily leads to an open attack
I am sure that is not what this forum is about.

If you do not believe it is a good idea for faiths to debate their beliefs why are you posting in GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES forum? That IS what this forum is about, as the title so plainly states.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
spacemonkey said:
I suppose that depends on who you ask. If he was at one time head of the Mormon chuch, then yes, he would have been considered a prophet by other Mormons. I'm pretty certain that no Mormon religous leader is a considered a prophet outside of the Mormon church though.

Just a suggestion, wait for the LDS members to come answer the questions instead of just guessing and possibly causing more confusion.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
nutshell said:
No, Mark E. Peterson was not the prophet. Also, he was giving this talk at an educational conference, not an official LDS setting. Also, Katzpur was right. He was giving his opinion, not stating Mormon doctrine. Our doctrince can be found in our canon: The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants. What Peterson said is in none of those.
If Peterson was not considered a prophet and this is not mormon or Biblical doctrine, then on what does he base the statements of what the Lord has decreed or the Lord has done? If simply personal opinion, then why was it embraced by the mormon church at all?
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Snowbear said:
If Peterson was not considered a prophet and this is not mormon or Biblical doctrine, then on what does he base the statements of what the Lord has decreed or the Lord has done? If simply personal opinion, then why was it embraced by the mormon church at all?

He was restating what he'd heard from other church members. This opinion is NOT embraced by the Mormon church. It is embraced be some people - but not by the church. It is not in our canon as I stated earlier.
 

spacemonkey

Pneumatic Spiritualist
6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a acurse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.

Is this not what it says in the Book of Mormon? If not then complain about this site http://scriptures.lds.org/ and not me.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
spacemonkey said:
Is this not what it says in the Book of Mormon? If not then complain about this site http://scriptures.lds.org/ and not me.

This has been interpreted many ways (some say it's symbolic, some say it's not), but it has nothing to do with Peterson's talk. The Book of Mormon is referring to a small group of select people for their behavior on earth. What it is not referring to is this opinion by Peterson.

If I complain to you it's because you misunderstand or misinterpret what is being said.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
What man is worshipped by LDS? When did God say follow Mark E. Peterson? Where does the BOM say to be like him instead of making your own choices in life?

The pope recently insulted Muslims. Might there just be a few good Muslims in the world?

This is the problem with placing humans in religious leadership positions. They make mistakes. To some degree we all have prejudices and bigotry, anger and self value issues to deal with. These are reflections of us not of God nor of any whole faith.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
********* MOD POST **********

Just a friendly reminder folks, as this can become a heated topic. Read this rule very carefully and consider what you post.

Thanks.

4.) While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or inflammatory posts. We will allow faith to be debated and discussed by a member only when there is no hostile, rude, or insulting opinion of another's faith. The same applies to international conflicts; hostile, rude or insulting opinions of one of the sides to an international conflict will not be allowed. These restrictions to an open debate or discussion also apply to material linked and/or quoted from another site. Our decision is final in these matters.
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
What about this?

http://lds-mormon.com/racism.shtml
BRUCE R. MCCONKIE
Mormon Doctrine, p. 114 In a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole Negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry. (Gen. 4; Moses 5.) The whole house of Israel was chosen as a peculiar people, one set apart from all other nations (Ex. 19:5-6; Deut. 7:6; 14:2); and they were forbidden to marry outside their own caste. (Ex. 34:10-17; Deut. 7:1-5.) In effect the Lamanites belonged to one caste and the Nephites to another, and a mark was put upon the Lamanites to keep the Nephites from intermixing with and marrying them. (Alma 3:6-11.) All this is not to say that any race, creed, or caste should be denied any inalienable rights. But it is to say that Deity in his infinite wisdom, to carry out his inscrutable purposes, has a caste system of his own, a system of segregation of races and peoples. The justice of such a system is evident when life is considered in its true eternal perspective. It is only by a knowledge of pre-existence that it can be known why some persons are born in one race or caste and some in another. "However, in a broad general sense, caste systems have their origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the lord.
pp. 102.
Tough he was rebel and an associate of Lucifer in pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan.
pg. 343
Through Ham (a name meaning black) the blood of the Canaanites was preserved through the flood, he having married Egyptus, a descendent of Cain.
Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them... Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned....

At the top it says "Mormon Doctrine" and its in favor of segregation... Was this a part of Mormon Doctrine?
 
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