Mirza Ghulam Ahmad - Is he really Al Mahdi and the Messiah?

[Rational_Mind]

[youtube]HozuBwjnddg[/youtube]

 

[Monotheist 101]

These pro Ahmadi sources you have qouted hold no weight in this argument..Bring me someone who disagrees with Ghulam Ahmad..yet agrees on these "self claimed" qualities...

Like the "Kuffar E Mecca" use to call Mohammad as Al Ameen, the truthful one

What gives you authority to call me Kuffar E Mecca? Did Ghulam Ahmad teach you this tactic..in one of his many dreamy books...

To you I seem like Kuffar E Mecca..whats funny is in my eyes you are no different than the followers of the rest of the decievers/dajjals.. Yet I donot say it directly to you..let alone repeat it as a reply to questions/reality which you want to dodge over and over (Ive never been compared with Kuffar E Mecca in my life..except by you..5 times in this very thread, good to see Ghulam Ahmad wasnt the only one bringing something new to the table..his followers picked up alot from him)..Why you making me Kafir bro? Did your promise reformer teach you that if I refuse to believe in Him but have faith in Allah..I am still a Kafir? Kind of like christian Jesus? Salvation is only through Jesus..so if you dont believe in him you dont go to heaven..regardless of whether you believe in the Father in the Heavens..

You bring nothing new to the table..I dont know why Im bothering replying on this thread again..guess ive got nothing better to do..15 mins left at work

Bro Sincerely I hope the best for you..May Allah make you understand my POV and vice versa...so we can understand eachother and stop disrespecting..

Peace and God Bless..

 

[Monotheist 101]

Bro you are again being dishonest to prove your point..Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was not illeterate..

As a child, he received his early education at home. He learned to read the Arabic text of the Qur'an and studied basic Arabic grammar and the Persian language from a teacher named Fazil-e-Illahi. At the age of 10, he learned from a teacher named Fazl Ahmad. Again at the age of 17 or 18, he learnt from a teacher named Gul Ali Shah.[9] In addition, he also studied some works on medicine from his father, Mirza Ghulam Murtaza, who was a physician.

wikipedia

And your saying 10,000 prizes are still up for grabs, when were they initially offered? in 1800s...you know what a large amount of money this was back in those days? and you say he had no influence and power?

 

[Rational_Mind]

Bro you are again being dishonest to prove your point..Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was not illeterate..

wikipedia

And your saying 10,000 prizes are still up for grabs, when were they initially offered? in 1800s...you know what an large amount of money this was back in those days? and you say he had no influence and power?

Read carefully. I have noticed that either you do not read what I post or skim through it. You miss details.

It was untrue to say that he knew no Arabic, however. He had read the standard books. But he had certainly not had the benefit of instruction from any great scholar. He had earned no testimonial after study at an old school. He was not one of the leading Ulema of the country, nor was he a Maulvi of any status

The money he offered was the value of the land. He was neither highly educated nor wealthy.

Here is a book written by a non-Ahmadi on his life:
Al Islam -Book: Ahmad the Guided One

If you read it you will find out that all he had was the worth of his fathers land. On many occasions he asked for money to write books. If he was wealthy he would not have needed it. All the money he had he spent writing books to defend Islam from Christian attacks.

On one hand there are Anti-Ahmadiyya stating he started Ahmadiyyat to collect money on the other saying he was wealthy. Contradictions.

 

[F0uad]

Run along F0uad. I am tired of your games. Every statement you cannot respond to you avoid it and runaway. Always stating I am using faulty sources. I think your heart is at fault.

May God Save You.

Same goes for you, its funny how you could not answer my questions and had to answer them with more questions and vague arguments that had nothing to do with my original point.

O and why don't you call yourself a Shia but Sunni?


Ps: As a Sunni you accept the 4 Madhab's Jurists, authentic Hadiths that are reported in Ibn Khatir, Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and others.

 

[Rational_Mind]

Ps: As a Sunni you accept the 4 Madhab's Jurists, authentic Hadiths that are reported in Ibn Khatir, Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and others.

And we do.

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on everyone.

The Promised Messiah suggested to people the Istikharah Prayer so that Allah Almighty Himself guide in this matter. He said:
1-

…..I suggested that you should supplicate to God and beseech Him with tears so that He may disclose the truth to you, but you did nothing and persisted in your denial. Truly hasGod said concerning me: A warner came into the world and the world did not accept him, but God will accept him and will proclaim his truth with powerful assaults.
Is it possible that a person should be true and yet should be destroyed? Is it possible that a person should be from God and should be ruined? O ye people, fight not God. This is an affair which God has designed for your sake and for the sake of your faith, so do not lay obstacles before it. You might stand before the lightening but you have not the strength to confront God. If all this had been man’s doing, none of your attacks would have been needed. God Himself would have destroyed me. Alas! Heaven is bearing witness and you do not hear; the earth is crying out: One is needed, one is needed, and you pay no attention!......

Friday Sermon by Fifth Khalifah of Promised Messiah on March 22, 2013 furnished with many quotations from the Promised Messiah in regard to his advent


2- Useful for Arabic speaking friends IslamAhmadiyya.net -

 

[F0uad]

And we do.

I am not saying you guys are not Muslims i am just saying that you guys are not following the principles of Sunni Islam.

Ahmediyyas believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian is the mehdi, or the prophet that is supposed to come. Basically for them Muhammed(saws) is not the last prophet. This violates the basic tenets of Islam, that Muhammed(saws) is the last prophet in all the four Madhabs. I can name several more problems like the Crucifixion, Journey to Jerusalem, The Mahdi & Messiah, Laws and many more but you get the idea.

I think i should have rephrased my original question into this why should we follow the the Ahmediya sect and not the Nation of Islam?
They look so similar in my eyes.

 

[OurCreed]

I am not saying you guys are not Muslims i am just saying that you guys are not following the principles of Sunni Islam.

Ahmediyyas believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian is the mehdi, or the prophet that is supposed to come. Basically for them Muhammed(saws) is not the last prophet. This violates the basic tenets of Islam, that Muhammed(saws) is the last prophet in all the four Madhabs. I can name several more problems like the Crucifixion, Journey to Jerusalem, The Mahdi & Messiah, Laws and many more but you get the idea.

I think i should have rephrased my original question into this why should we follow the the Ahmediya sect and not the Nation of Islam?
They look so similar in my eyes.

The only main difference between Ahmadi Muslims and Sunni Muslims is that Ahmadis believe the Mahdi has already come, and also, we also believe that Jesus (as) survived the crucifixion and traveled east and permanently residing in Kashmir where his grave is still there today.

Kashmir back then was hilly and mountainous and contained many lakes and streams. This is supported by the Qur'anic verse, Chapter 23, verse 50.

"And we made the son of Mary and his mother a Sign, and gave them shelter on an elevated land of green valleys and springs of running water."

Also, Muhammad (saw) is the last-law bearing prophet, but nowhere in the Qur'an does it ever mention that no prophet can come after him.

Muhammad (saw) came to this world in similar fashion to that of Musa (as).

Both Moses (as) and Muhammad (saw) were law-bearing prophets.

JESUS (as) was the MESSIAH of the Jews, so he was the reformer prophet of Musa (as).

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is the MESSIAH of the Muslims, so he is now the reformer prophet of Muhammad (saw).

Nowhere does the Qur'an ever mention that no prophet can come after Muhammad (saw).

Even Ayesha (ra) herself stated, "You can say Muhammad (saw) is the Seal of the Prophets, but do not say he is the last prophet."

Muhammad (saw) himself has stated, "There is no Mahdi except Isa."

Also, Muhammad (saw) himself repeated three times that the Mahdi will be a "Nabi'ullah Nabi'ullah Nabi'ullah."

Apparently, the Mullahs are forgetting these Ahadith.

And what basic tenant of Islam states that Muhammad (saw) is the last prophet?

The Kalima is 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger.'

That is it, and we Ahmadis fully accept that.

 

[Monotheist 101]

The only main difference between Ahmadi Muslims and Sunni Muslims is that Ahmadis believe the Mahdi has already come, and also, we also believe that Jesus (as) survived the crucifixion and traveled east and permanently residing in Kashmir where his grave is still there today.

Kashmir back then was hilly and mountainous and contained many lakes and streams. This is supported by the Qur'anic verse, Chapter 23, verse 50.

"And we made the son of Mary and his mother a Sign, and gave them shelter on an elevated land of green valleys and springs of running water."

Also, Muhammad (saw) is the last-law bearing prophet, but nowhere in the Qur'an does it ever mention that no prophet can come after him.

Muhammad (saw) came to this world in similar fashion to that of Musa (as).

Both Moses (as) and Muhammad (saw) were law-bearing prophets.

JESUS (as) was the MESSIAH of the Jews, so he was the reformer prophet of Musa (as).

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is the MESSIAH of the Muslims, so he is now the reformer prophet of Muhammad (saw).

Nowhere does the Qur'an ever mention that no prophet can come after Muhammad (saw).

Even Ayesha (ra) herself stated, "You can say Muhammad (saw) is the Seal of the Prophets, but do not say he is the last prophet."

Muhammad (saw) himself has stated, "There is no Mahdi except Isa."

Also, Muhammad (saw) himself repeated three times that the Mahdi will be a "Nabi'ullah Nabi'ullah Nabi'ullah."

Apparently, the Mullahs are forgetting these Ahadith.

And what basic tenant of Islam states that Muhammad (saw) is the last prophet?

The Kalima is 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger.'

That is it, and we Ahmadis fully accept that.

You Guys should addressing why a person shouldnt follow the Nation of Islam (african american sect) in preference to Ahmadiyat? Just like you their followers are attached to the person(ethnicity among other things) than the creator...

You also dont understand that the Quran although does not specifcally state no Prophet will come..but says that the religion has been perfected...the Quran will be protected..etc...leaving no room for another Prophet to come..even if it was just to fix Islam Ghulam Ahmads purpose was devious IMO...


Quran 5.3

.. I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion....

Something perfect cannot be contaminated or stop being perfect..otherwise Allah would have said your religion is fixed..perfect will never cease being perfect..

per·fect

[adj., n. pur-fikt; v. per-fekt] Show IPA
adjective 1. conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type: a perfect sphere; a perfect gentleman.

2. excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement: There is no perfect legal code. The proportions of this temple are almost perfect.

3. exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose: a perfect actor to play Mr. Micawber; a perfect saw for cutting out keyholes.

4. entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings: a perfect apple; the perfect crime.

5. accurate, exact, or correct in every detail: a perfect copy.

Perfect | Define Perfect at Dictionary.com

Why believe Ahmadiyat and not the countless others? I see no reason to follow it unless it is inherited...honeslty

May Allah guide is with logic rather than emotion

Peace and God Bless

 

[F0uad]

Just to add if you are a Sunni Muslim you would follow the Authentic Hadiths that said there will be no other prophet after Mohammed(saws).

 

[F0uad]

The only main difference between Ahmadi Muslims and Sunni Muslims is that Ahmadis believe the Mahdi has already come, and also, we also believe that Jesus (as) survived the crucifixion and traveled east and permanently residing in Kashmir where his grave is still there today.

Kashmir back then was hilly and mountainous and contained many lakes and streams. This is supported by the Qur'anic verse, Chapter 23, verse 50.

"And we made the son of Mary and his mother a Sign, and gave them shelter on an elevated land of green valleys and springs of running water."

Also, Muhammad (saw) is the last-law bearing prophet, but nowhere in the Qur'an does it ever mention that no prophet can come after him.

Muhammad (saw) came to this world in similar fashion to that of Musa (as).

Both Moses (as) and Muhammad (saw) were law-bearing prophets.

JESUS (as) was the MESSIAH of the Jews, so he was the reformer prophet of Musa (as).

Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) is the MESSIAH of the Muslims, so he is now the reformer prophet of Muhammad (saw).

Nowhere does the Qur'an ever mention that no prophet can come after Muhammad (saw).

Even Ayesha (ra) herself stated, "You can say Muhammad (saw) is the Seal of the Prophets, but do not say he is the last prophet."

Muhammad (saw) himself has stated, "There is no Mahdi except Isa."

Also, Muhammad (saw) himself repeated three times that the Mahdi will be a "Nabi'ullah Nabi'ullah Nabi'ullah."

Apparently, the Mullahs are forgetting these Ahadith.

And what basic tenant of Islam states that Muhammad (saw) is the last prophet?

The Kalima is 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger.'

That is it, and we Ahmadis fully accept that.

You just cited the differences so you accept the fact you are not Sunni, there are also many more differences that you maybe be unaware of.

Qur'anic verse, Chapter 23, verse 50.
"And we made the son of Mary and his mother a Sign, and gave them shelter on an elevated land of green valleys and springs of running water."

Its not talking about India but Palestine and this wasn't after the so ''alleged'' crucifixion moreover the Quranic verse mentions both crucifixion and death:
But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, the emphasis is on the NOR.

Please cite the references of the claims you made above.

 

[Monotheist 101]

Just to add if you are a Sunni Muslim you would follow the Authentic Hadiths that said there will be no other prophet after Mohammed(saws).

Bro I donot label myself as Sunni..but follow any Authenticated Hadiths which agree with my logic, I donot label myself Quranist (apparantely some so called Quranists have also claimed to be messengers)...I believe there is no need for sects only a need to blindly have faith in One God and use our brains individually so that we are responsible for our actions..we wont have an excuse to say..It didnt make sense to me...but Bukhari authenticated it..so lets base our laws on it...bro I think the Sunnah should be followed and that the Prophet was an example to us...but I realize that everything changes over time...values..situations..the same exact values that applied in Muhammads time cannot be applied to all practical matters..spiritual maybe but not practical..If the Quran is the last word and going to protected till the end of time..maybe thousands of years..isnt it logical to think that societies and values will change...I think sticking too strictly to Hadith rather than the Quran has brought alot of negativity towards Islam..

I am not saying I dont follow Hadith...I take good from anyone or anything even the hindu..IMO bro in todays world..anyone of faith/ any faith should be cherished..I follow Hadith but at the same time question anything that doesnt add up with my logic..except the Quran but it has never given me an opportunity to question it eitherway....

I am not Sunni but have Sunni characteristics..and believe am spiritually following the Prophets teachings..

 

[OurCreed]

You just cited the differences so you accept the fact you are not Sunni, there are also many more differences that you maybe be unaware of.

Qur'anic verse, Chapter 23, verse 50.
"And we made the son of Mary and his mother a Sign, and gave them shelter on an elevated land of green valleys and springs of running water."

Its not talking about India but Palestine and this wasn't after the so ''alleged'' crucifixion moreover the Quranic verse mentions both crucifixion and death:
But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, the emphasis is on the NOR.

Please cite the references of the claims you made above.

The Qur'an doesn't support the viewpoint that Isa (as) raised up to the Heavens, but it supports that Isa (as) passed away a natural death.

The verse regarding the green valleys and springs is clearly talking about Kashmir, you can go search it on Google, the Tomb of Yuz Asaf is in Kashmir.

Yuz or Yus is the short form of Yeshua, and Yeshua is the Hebrew way of saying JESUS. The tomb of Yuz Asaf in Kashmir is accepted by the residents that he was a prophet of Allah, a Nabi.

Asaf in Hebrew means Gatherer.

So Yuz Asaf means Jesus the Gatherer.

Which other prophet of Allah (swt) is called by the name of Jesus?

Read the book, Jesus: Among the Lost Sheep.

That book is more than enough for you.

Isa (as) did not raise up to the Heavens, this is old Christian tales, Isa (as) passed away a natural death, and I can give 10 Ahadith to support this.

1) "It is reported from Ibn Abbas that the Holy Prophet said in a sermon: O people! You will be gathered to your Lord (on the day of Judgment) ... and some people from my Umma will be taken and dragged towards hell. I shall say: ‘O Lord, but these are my people’. It will be replied: ‘You do not know what they did after you’. Then I shall say as did that righteous servant of God (i.e., Jesus) say: ‘I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (tawaffaitani) Thou wast Watcher over them’ ..." (Bukhari, Kitab al-Tafsir, under Surah Ma’idah)

2) "O people! I have heard that you fear the death of your Prophet. Did any prophet before me live on so that I should be expected to live on amongst you? Listen! I am about to meet my Lord, and so will you. So I bid you to treat well the early muhajirs." (Al-anwar ul-Muhammadiyya min al-Muwahib al-Ladinya, Egypt, p. 317)

3) "There is no one alive today but will be dead before a hundred years have passed over it." (Muslim, Kanz al-Ummal, vol. 7, p. 170)
"The Holy Prophet said: ‘Allah sends a wind every hundred years which takes the soul of every believer’. This hadith is sound in transmission." (Mustadrak, vol. 4, p. 475)

4) "Aisha (God be pleased with her) said that, in his illness in which he died, the Holy Prophet said: ‘Every year Gabriel used to repeat the Holy Quran with me once, but this year he has done it twice. He has informed me that there is no prophet but he lives half as long as the one who preceded him. And he has told me that Jesus lived a hundred and twenty years, and I see that I am about to leave this world at sixty’."

5) The Holy Prophet Muhammad said: "Had Moses or Jesus been alive, they would have had to follow me." (Al-Yawaqit wal-Jawahir, p. 24; Fath al-Bayan, vol. 2, p. 246; Tafsir Ibn Kathir, under verse 81 of Al Imran)

"Had Jesus been alive he would have had to follow me." (Sharh Fiqh Akbar, Egyptian ed., p. 99)

"No. 19: If Moses and Jesus were alive, they would have but followed me." (English text from Al-Islam, published by the Fiji Muslim Youth Organization, vol. 4, Oct. 1974)

6) "May the curse of God be upon the Jews and the Christians who made the graves of their prophets into places of worship." (Bukhari, Kitab as-Salat, p. 296)

7) "Adam is in the first heaven ... Joseph is in the second heaven, and his cousins Yahya (John the Baptist) and Jesus are in the third heaven, and Idris is in the fourth heaven." (Kanz al-Ummal, vol. vi, p. 120) (see Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Urdu ed. published in Karachi, vol. iii, p. 18).

8) "Then the Holy Prophet descended in Jerusalem, along with all the other prophets. At the time of prayers, he lead them all in prayer."

(Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Urdu ed., vol. iii, p. 23)

Among "all" the prophets is included Jesus. Had he, unlike other prophets, been alive physically in heaven, his "descent" to Jerusalem would have been with his material body. In that case he would have had to rise up to heaven physically a second time. But the Quran mentions only one raf‘ ("exaltation" which is misunderstood as "rising up to heaven") of Jesus!

9) "When a delegation of sixty men from the (Christian) people of Najran came to the Holy Prophet, their chief priest discussed with him the status of Jesus and asked him as to who Jesus’ father was. The Holy Prophet said: ‘Do you not know that a son resembles his father?’ They replied: ‘Yes’. He said: A lastum ta‘lamuna anna rabbana la yamutu wa anna Isa ata ‘alaihi-l-fana’, i.e., Do you not know that our Lord lives for ever while Jesus perished."

(Asbab an-nuzul, by Imam Abu-l-Hasan Ali ibn Ahmad al-Wahidi of Neshapur, published in Egypt, p. 53)

What clearer testimony could there be that Jesus has died than this saying from the blessed tongue of the Holy Prophet!

10) In Sahih al-Bukhari, there are recorded two different physical descriptions of Jesus — one applying to the past Messiah and the other to the Messiah whose advent in the latter days is prophesied.

1. In the Mi‘raj the Messiah seen with Moses, Abraham and other prophets by the Holy Prophet, was described by him thus:

"I saw Jesus. He was a man of a reddish complexion." (Bukhari, Kitab al-anbiya, ch. 24)
"I saw Jesus, Moses and Abraham. Jesus had a reddish complexion, curly hair and a wide chest." (ibid., ch. 48)
It is clear from both these Hadith reports that by Jesus, who was seen here along with Abraham and Moses, is meant the Israelite prophet. He had a red complexion and curly hair.

2. Bukhari has recorded a hadith in which the Holy Prophet relates a dream of his about the future:

"In a state of sleep I saw myself circumambulating the Ka’ba, and I saw a man of a wheatish complexion with straight hair. I asked who it was. They said: This is the Messiah, son of Mary." (Bukhari, Kitab al-Fitn, ch. 22, ‘Mention of Dajjal’)

Thus, where Jesus is mentioned along with Abraham and Moses, he is described as of a reddish complexion and curly hair; but where he is seen along with the Dajjal in a dream about the future, he is said to have a wheatish complexion with straight hair. Evidently these two different descriptions do not apply to one and the same person. So Jesus, the Israelite prophet, whom the Holy Prophet saw in the Mi‘raj vision, and the Messiah who was to appear in the latter days to kill the evil Dajjal, are two different persons.

The Israelite Messiah, Jesus, died, as is made clear by the Holy Prophet Muhammad’s sayings. And the Messiah whose advent in the latter days has been prophesied by the Holy Prophet, was to be from the Muslim community, and not an Israelite prophet. This is borne out by the following three Hadith reports:

‘Ulama’u ummati ka anbiya’i bani Israil, i.e., "The learned ones of my community are like the prophets of the Israelites."
Ala inna-hu Khalifati fi ummati min ba‘di, i.e., "Certainly he (the Messiah to come) is my khalifa after me in my community."
Fa amma-kum min-kum, i.e., "He shall be your Imam from among yourselves."

I'll await your response.