Mediterranean migrant crisis.

[Kirran]

At the end of the day, we'll vote where we think it's best to do so. Further discussion gets us nowhere.

 

[Ultimatum]

At the end of the day, we'll vote where we think it's best to do so. Further discussion gets us nowhere.

Further discussion allows us to alienate economic stupidity. But if you don't want to listen to the facts, then you are free to continue to browse the Socialist subforum and remain oblivious to the huge problem that is mass-immigration.

 

[Mycroft]

A record-number of asylum-seekers have been making their way across the Mediterranean Sea--most taking the route from Libya to Italy in unseaworthy boats. Some of these "asylum-seekers", as reported by the Italian press, are actually Islamic extremists who seek to do wrong to our continent; many of them want the taste of easy welfare as offered by many northern European countries.

And the European Union now expects us to accommodate these migrants! And do you know what? As members of the EU and, therefore, bound by the 1951 Convention on Refugees, the ECHR and the Lisbon Treaty, with its Charter of Fundamental Rights, we are totally and utterly impotent to do anything about it.
We have voluntarily surrendered our ability to make our own decisions.

Shoe on the other foot: If you were running from a country filled with people who wanted to kill you, only to end up on the shores of another country and get turned around, how would you feel?

 

[Mycroft]

This is an issue of accepting illegal immigrants into the European Union which then have the right to come to the United Kingdom..

It is a nonissue, since they're not illegal immigrants, they're refugees. It would help if you knew what you were talking about before you spewed your fascist vitriol all over the forums.

 

[Ultimatum]

Shoe on the other foot: If you were running from a country filled with people who wanted to kill you, only to end up on the shores of another country and get turned around, how would you feel?

Pretty awful.

since they're not illegal immigrants, they're refugees..

How do you know this? I believe that it's more of a case of putting a sticking plaster over a gaping wound: by pretty much welcoming these migrants into the EU, through operations like Mare Nostrum, we are further encouraging more migrants to come on over. And thanks to the EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights, there is nothing that we can do about it as a country. We have to stop offering cherry-on-top asylum promises to these people, lest we inundate the continent with the economic problem of mass immigration.

 

[Mycroft]

Pretty awful.

So why do you wish it on others?

How do you know this?

Most of them are refugees escaping Libya. Some are migrants, but they're escaping poverty in the hopes of a new life Europe. Again, if the shoe were on the other foot and you were escaping poverty, starvation and, how would you feel if someone tried to send you back? They're still human beings.

I believe that it's more of a case of putting a sticking plaster over a gaping wound: by pretty much welcoming these migrants into the EU, through operations like Mare Nostrum, we are further encouraging more migrants to come on over. And thanks to the EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights, there is nothing that we can do about it as a country. We have to stop offering cherry-on-top asylum promises to these people, lest we inundate the continent with the economic problem of mass immigration.

Historically, we're all 'migrants'. But these people have a more legitimate reason for coming here than simply wanting to conquer the place like our ancestors did. The last time I checked, the planet was round and everyone on it was a human being.

 

[Ultimatum]

So why do you wish it on others?

Don't appeal to emotion--this is an economic issue.

but they're escaping poverty in the hopes of a new life Europe.

And if we grant them this, it will encourage many thousands more to come--many thousands that we cannot afford to have.

They're still human beings.

An appeal to emotion, again.

But these people have a more legitimate reason for coming here than simply wanting to conquer the place like our ancestors did.

Except that, today, in 2015, we live on an over-consuming planet of +7 billion people. We need to protect our resources as nations.

The last time I checked, the planet was round and everyone on it was a human being.

But when do we put our feet down and say "no"?

 

[Mycroft]

Don't appeal to emotion--this is an economic issue.

No, it's a human issue. Nine hundred people died, that's not simple economics. You would do well to bear that in mind.

And if we grant them this, it will encourage many thousands more to come--many thousands that we cannot afford to have.

Depends. Most 'migrants' I know are far more hard working than the lazy, moaning British people I sometimes have to employ. Your problem is that you just don't like foreigners.

An appeal to emotion, again.

What's wrong, human decency too difficult for you?

 

[Flankerl]

I agree they shouldn't drown.
They should be saved and shipped back to Africa immediately.

Perhaps give them a (halal) CARE Package when they leave the Ship.

 

[Ultimatum]

No, it's a human issue.

You are missing the point: that as we hand out this message of "come on over", this will incentivise unprecedented economic immigration--which we are already seeing. For example, underneath the media attention on Libya and genuine asylum-seekers, there was an incident in Egypt with migrants who were making their way to Greece. Another incident showed us Moroccans/Algerians making their way to the southern coast of Spain.
And, as I have stressed many times before, under the Charter of Fundamental Rights, we are stupidly inviting the rest of the world's dispossessed--those looking for a better life in Europe. And you may be thinking: "But yes, this is wonderful!", but you must keep in mind that it will happen at a great cost to the nations of the Union.

Your problem is that you just don't like foreigners.

I have no problem with foreigners coming into this countries--just as long as they are skilled workers who are financially stable.

What's wrong, human decency too difficult for you?

And you're willing to put the societies of the Union at risk when ISIL have claimed they want to flood Europe with thousands of extremists? Wake up!

 

[MD]

ISIS fighters hiding among migrants bound for Europe, Libyan adviser says - World - CBC News

 

[Mycroft]

You are missing the point: that as we hand out this message of "come on over", this will incentivise unprecedented economic immigration--which we are already seeing.

You are also missing the point that the stark message of 'Don't bother coming here' can easily mean that other countries may choose not to help us at a time when we may need it. This isn't our country, nor is it our planet. We're simply here by kind permission of mother nature.

I have no problem with foreigners coming into this countries--just as long as they are skilled workers who are financially stable.

There are many britons who aren't financially stabled or skilled. So...must be that you don't like foreigners.

And you're willing to put the societies of the Union at risk when ISIL have claimed they want to flood Europe with thousands of extremists? Wake up!

So human decency is too difficult for you.[

 

[Wirey]

There is a genuine concern that ISIS will use this as a way to beat border security, but that's no reason to allow women and children to die. Surely there must be a way to vet each of these people and see who is a genuine refugee, and who isn't.

 

[Ultimatum]

You are also missing the point that the stark message of 'Don't bother coming here'

I would like to ask you this question: How many is too many? And, in particular: How many is economically feasible?
Sure, we would like to help everyone and live in an equal, Utopian society, but things don't work like that in the real work--resources must be reserved for your own people.

can easily mean that other countries may choose not to help us at a time when we may need it.

In what way?

This isn't our country, nor is it our planet. We're simply here by kind permission of mother nature.

An appeal to nature.
Again, we have our own to take care of: the human race has divided this Earth into hundreds of economic areas.

There are many britons who aren't financially stabled or skilled. So...must be that you don't like foreigners.

This, of course, must imply that there are no first I generation migrant Britons, which, of course there are. So your argument counts for nothing.
Unskilled, mass immigration is an economically poor attitude to immigration--this is something that none can deny.



So human decency is too difficult for you.[[/QUOTE]

 

[Brickjectivity]

John Oliver video about why migrants are a resource for developed countries. I think its worth watching. Its about 17 minutes and points out that Germany is welcoming all comers, because it recognizes that it needs immigrants. I think there are two ways of looking at it, and its one sided to only see the dangers of immigrants. USA has benefited ultimately from all of its immigrants, so there is certainly a positive aspect that is being ignored by many of the political naysayers.