Matthew 23:9

[angellous_evangellous]

Can we call you daddy?

Yep. That's different.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

The pope represents 'GOD', in his capacity. The same is true for all ministers, in whatever position that they hold within their church. They are to be following the Word of God. The Word of God explicitly states that we are to call no man on this earth [spiritual] father. I would, however, have no problem calling a Catholic minister (or deacon, bishop, etc.), "goatelathage." I noticed that I mis-typed 'skeleton' (above)......sorry.

Represents GOD? :areyoucra
God needs no representation. God needs no mediator, not even Jesus. These are merely nursemaids, as Paul tells us. Once we realize God, God is there. No ifs ands or buts, no person in the middle. Just you and God.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

1 Cor. 4:15-7
Phil. 2:22
1 Thess 2:11 (not Timothy)

First of all, Paul was an apostle (anointed above the prophets). Apostles only became known during Jesus' time. Prior to this, prophets were used to receive messages from God (along with others anointed for this purpose ...kings, priests, etc.). God, Himself, called them, "gods", and the scriptures cannot be broken. Paul was authorized through his anointment, to be like a father unto those he taught.

I don't understand your reference to Phil. 2:22. It appears to me, that Paul is referring to himself as 'son', not as 'father'.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

Represents GOD? :areyoucra
God needs no representation. God needs no mediator, not even Jesus. These are merely nursemaids, as Paul tells us. Once we realize God, God is there. No ifs ands or buts, no person in the middle. Just you and God.

Every person who speaks/teaches the Word of God, assumes, that they are doing so for the purpose of glorifying God. They are trying to explain God's Word, and also trying to bring His lost sheep back to His fold. Call this what you will, but in my view, you are 'representing' God, when you do these things. You can only be representing either God, or satan, in your works. Jesus, as the only begotten son of God, is part of 'GOD'. It is His duty, to reconcile His kingdom. It is ONLY through Him, that we can approach The Father. HE IS THE DOOR!

It is written, that if you do not have The Son, you do not have The Father.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Every person who speaks/teaches the Word of God, assumes, that they are doing so for the purpose of glorifying God. They are trying to explain God's Word, and also trying to bring His lost sheep back to His fold. Call this what you will, but in my view, you are 'representing' God, when you do these things. You can only be representing either God, or satan, in your works. Jesus, as the only begotten son of God, is part of 'GOD'. It is His duty, to reconcile His kingdom. It is ONLY through Him, that we can approach The Father. HE IS THE DOOR!

It is written, that if you do not have The Son, you do not have The Father.

And if you do not have the Father, you do not have the Son. We do not represent God. We are a part of God. We belong to God. We, in any sense of the word, are God. We are the body. We are.
If there is representation, then there is no God. Only what is represented of God. You say to the priest, these are my sins, take them to God and make them right again. Or you say, I wish to be confirmed, I wish to be married, I wish to be anointed, I wish to be blessed. If you need that representation, you are not speaking to God. You are speaking to men who think they represent God. Who think they are God in some cases.
Where God is present, there is no doubt that it is God. There is no need for a mediator. God is God, God is.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

hmmm.... what about large family gatherings like prayers over the Thanksgiving meal?

I give thanks, in silent prayers, at every meal.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

And if you do not have the Father, you do not have the Son. We do not represent God. We are a part of God. We belong to God. We, in any sense of the word, are God. We are the body. We are.
If there is representation, then there is no God. Only what is represented of God. You say to the priest, these are my sins, take them to God and make them right again. Or you say, I wish to be confirmed, I wish to be married, I wish to be anointed, I wish to be blessed. If you need that representation, you are not speaking to God. You are speaking to men who think they represent God. Who think they are God in some cases.
Where God is present, there is no doubt that it is God. There is no need for a mediator. God is God, God is.

First of all, I never go to any priest. I am a Protestant believer. God is 'the principle'. We are His 'agents'. An agent, represents his/her principle. The scriptures contain commands....baptizing, teaching, healing, etc. We are using God's gifts, to do His work. Therefore, we are 'representing' Him. If you wish to use a different word, be my guest. Further, a priest cannot 'anoint' anyone. Only God can anoint. A priest can choose to 'certify' someone/something, as he wishes, but God chooses His own anointments. Teachers are one of the lowest on the totem pole, when it comes to church authority. The apostles and prophets are anointed above the teachers. It is impossible for a 'teacher', to anoint (create) an apostle or prophet. Anointments are made by God. Even a true prophet, receives proof of His anointment, from God (Numbers 12:6..."If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and speak unto him in a dream."). The dream will be in riddles. God only spoke to Moses, in plain words.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

First of all, I never go to any priest. I am a Protestant believer. God is 'the principle'. We are His 'agents'. An agent, represents his/her principle. The scriptures contain commands....baptizing, teaching, healing, etc. We are using God's gifts, to do His work. Therefore, we are 'representing' Him. If you wish to use a different word, be my guest. Further, a priest cannot 'anoint' anyone. Only God can anoint. A priest can choose to 'certify' someone/something, as he wishes, but God chooses His own anointments. Teachers are one of the lowest on the totem pole, when it comes to church authority. The apostles and prophets are anointed above the teachers. It is impossible for a 'teacher', to anoint (create) an apostle or prophet. Anointments are made by God. Even a true prophet, receives proof of His anointment, from God (Numbers 12:6..."If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and speak unto him in a dream."). The dream will be in riddles. God only spoke to Moses, in plain words.

So you're representing the church? The...principle...in this equation is not God, I'm afraid. The key words you used were 'church authority'. That means you represent the church. And they can pull all the rules from wherever they want to, as far as they are concerned. They mean well, of course, but are in this case wrong. In most cases, actually, as it takes people who know God to show others God.

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

So you're representing the church? The...principle...in this equation is not God, I'm afraid. The key words you used were 'church authority'. That means you represent the church. And they can pull all the rules from wherever they want to, as far as they are concerned. They mean well, of course, but are in this case wrong. In most cases, actually, as it takes people who know God to show others God.

I have no idea what you are saying in your posting above. All who believe and follow God's Word, are His sheep, and part of Christ's Church. All followers of God's Word must glorify God's name, in their works. God will choose who He pleases, to anoint to specific positions (apostles, prophets,teachers,priests, etc.). I am looking from God's point of view, not man's. Only God knows if we are properly following His Word and teaching with true understanding of it. A person may in fact be appointed by a church member, and also be anointed by God. I would not assume that everyone selected by man is also chosen by God.

We can tell right away, if a physical 'church' denomination is in fact following God's Word. After attending one or more sessions, and matching the beliefs/teachings to the Word of God, God will provide us with the wisdom to evaluate the truth behind their teachings/beliefs.

We find in the Catholic Church, that 'celibacy' is a requirement, before you can become ordained, and you must continue to be celibate. The Bible is filled with anointed married people, that God has chosen. All things allowed by God, are righteous/godly, if used properly. This 'man-made' rule of celibacy within the Catholic Church, is in direct conflict with the Word of God. The Catholic Church has set a 'parameter' where none exists, within scripture. They have 'edited' God's Word, and disallowed what God allows. It is a God given right, to all of mankind, to marry. It is evil to refuse the rights that God has allowed and blessed. You make yourself 'GOD' when you do this.

I still believe true Christians, living their lives for God's glorification, are representing God on earth, through their beliefs and works. You may choose whatever word that pleases you, if you do not like the word 'representing'.

 

[smokydot]

An "official" Catholic explanation is here: Call No Man "Father"?

Personally, I agree with it... but only halfway. I see how it can be interpreted as a commandment against titles of prestige and not calling your literal father "father", but I think that the Catholic use of the term is precisely a title of prestige.

However, I don't think that other Christian denominations are blameless in this sort of thing... I mean, I can't think of any Christian denomination that actually adheres to Matthew 6:5-6.

Context is everything.

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. . .when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full (the favorable impression of men). But when you pray, go into your closet, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is unseen, will reward you." (Mt 6:1, 5-6)

In context, the point here is not the closet. . .the point is seeking the favorable impression of men.

Actually, speaking of Matthew 6, that's another Catholic practice that's never made sense to me: how do they reconcile the practice of marking their foreheads with ashes on Ash Wednesday with what's written in Mark 6:16-18?

You mean Mt 6:16-18, right?

I don't think they do that to show they are fasting.
I think they do it as a symbol of their mortality, "Dust thou art, and to dust thou shalt return."

 

[tomato1236]

That's why in my church we call the preacher "dude".

"Forgive me, dude, for I have sinned."

 

[smokydot]

It wasn't important enough for Paul.

Technically, Paul called Timothy his son.
We have no record ofTimothy calling Paul his father.

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Hi! Well, I'm not a Catholic, but can say that it is used widely by Roman Catholics and Anglicans. “Padre,” meaning “father,” is also widely used. But Jesus taught his disciples: “You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.” (Matthew 23:9, NJB) The New English Bible reads similarly: “Do not call any man on earth ‘father.’” Why do clergymen and their followers disobey this command from the Lord Jesus Christ?
The pope of Rome is usually addressed as “Holy Father.” But his Italian staff often address him as Santissimo Padre, which means “Most Holy Father.” “Holy Father” is a title that appears only once in the Bible. (John 17:11) It is the exclusive title of the Supreme Being. It is absolutely wrong for creatures, who are earthly and imperfect, to be addressed by that title.

 

[jtartar]

Matthew 23:9 tells us to call no man [spritual] Father on earth, because we have only one spiritual Father, who is in heaven. Why do the Catholics call their ministers 'Father'?

Thorwald Johansen,
They call their priests father, which is diametrically opposite of what Jesus said.
Notice also, verse 8, where Jesus pointed out that no one is our Rabbi, or teacher, Jesus. Notice that all believers are EQUAL, are all BROTHERS. In the true Christian congregation there is no such thing as Sacerdotalism, no such thing as priesthood and laity, ALL ARE BROTHERS!!!
These things are blasphemy, but are no worse than what is written at 1Tim 4:1-5. Here is says tha some would fall away from the faith, and be lead by demons and would forbid to marry, would forbid the eating of some foods.
Even worse is the abomination ot the teaching of the idea that the POPE is really Jesus with an incarnated body. The whole idea of the priesthood is useless, because Jesus said that because he is alive forever he has NO successors as High Priest, Heb 7:22-24. Jesus even said that if he were on earth, even he would not be a priest, because the priests came from the tribe of the Levites, and Jesus was of the tribe of Judah, Heb 7:14, Heb 8:4.
Any religious group that claims to speak for God and who teaches falsehood is even more reprehensible than Pagans, who do not even believe in the one true God.