Thorwald Johansen
Member
Matthew 23:9 tells us to call no man [spritual] Father on earth, because we have only one spiritual Father, who is in heaven. Why do the Catholics call their ministers 'Father'? 
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Matthew 23:9
- Thread starter Thorwald Johansen
- Start date
strikeviperMKII
Well-Known Member
It's a word. If that word means something that you should call a minister, then don't use it. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter. We don't kill witches, do we?
An "official" Catholic explanation is here: Call No Man "Father"?Matthew 23:9 tells us to call no man [spritual] Father on earth, because we have only one spiritual Father, who is in heaven. Why do the Catholics call their ministers 'Father'?
Personally, I agree with it... but only halfway. I see how it can be interpreted as a commandment against titles of prestige and not calling your literal father "father", but I think that the Catholic use of the term is precisely a title of prestige.
However, I don't think that other Christian denominations are blameless in this sort of thing... I mean, I can't think of any Christian denomination that actually adheres to Matthew 6:5-6.
Actually, speaking of Matthew 6, that's another Catholic practice that's never made sense to me: how do they reconcile the practice of marking their foreheads with ashes on Ash Wednesday with what's written in Mark 6:16-18?
Thorwald Johansen
Member
Is the pope not called, "Holy Father?"
Thorwald Johansen
Member
9 10ths Penguin:
I read the Catholic response that you provided with a link.
It appears to me, that those who were anointed by God (apostles, kings, prophets, priests) are who the Catholics are referring to. We know that the children of Israel were also anointed. God called His anointed messengers, "gods." The Catholic religion anoints their own saints, priests, etc., and assumes that God agrees with them.
I read the Catholic response that you provided with a link.
It appears to me, that those who were anointed by God (apostles, kings, prophets, priests) are who the Catholics are referring to. We know that the children of Israel were also anointed. God called His anointed messengers, "gods." The Catholic religion anoints their own saints, priests, etc., and assumes that God agrees with them.
Thorwald Johansen
Member
We are told by scripture, that we will return to the days of Noah. I agree with your comments above. Further, we are told to discuss what God reveals to us on an individual basis, amongst ourselves. The ministers of today, will not listen. They have it all figured out on their own. They are 'the blind leading the blind'.
Minsters believe, that because they attended a bible college, they are somehow spiritually 'above' the rest of mankind. This is not true. God chooses who He wants. Many are taught incorrect scripture interpretations, and go forward and teach others the same errors. Solomon did the correct thing. He relied on no man's wisdom. He went straight to God for wisdom, and was rewarded for it. We are told by scripture, that those who are the least in the eyes of man (for God's sake), will be made the greatest in the eyes of God. Ministers have become 'high headed', and are often assuming that they know everything.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Not all ministers.
Paul said that he was Timothy's father in the faith. I don't want anyone calling me father other than my kids, but of all the things that we can correct in others, calling someone "father" is rather piddly.
strikeviperMKII
Well-Known Member
More words. What do you think they mean?
Thorwald Johansen
Member
If it was important enough for The Son of God to make it part of His Word, and God is The Word, I would not call it 'piddly'. We saw what happened to Aaron's two sons (Leviticus), when they did not follow God's instructions for sacrificial offerings. They, by their actions, changed The Word of God.
Thorwald Johansen
Member
They mean what they say. That is the whole purpose of 'using words'. Catholics are calling their pope, "Holy Father." In 1 Corinthians chpt 7, we are told, that we do not know if our own spouses are saved. How much do you know about 'The Pope'? Has he got a closet full of skeltons? Has he ever chased the little altar boys? Is he really 'holy' in the sight of God? Sin affects ALL OF MANKIND. This includes the pope.
So then you never pray in public, right?
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
It wasn't important enough for Paul.
Thorwald Johansen
Member
That is correct.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Not a fan of Willie Nelson I see.
strikeviperMKII
Well-Known Member
Words mean nothing until you attach meaning to them.
Example: I just made up a word. It's 'goatelathage'. Does it have any meaning? No. Can I attach one to it? Yes. It now means 'going to the bathroom on Tuesday'. So it's now a verb. No one uses it, not even me, but it's still a word.
'Holy Father' is the same way, just a different assemblage of letters in the quotes.
To me, 'Holy Father' means 'idiot'. More specifically, 'an idiot in terms of the missal readings, mass settings, and music arrangements'.
Can we call you daddy?
Thorwald Johansen
Member
What scripture are you thinking of?
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
hmmm.... what about large family gatherings like prayers over the Thanksgiving meal?
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Thorwald Johansen
Member
The pope represents 'GOD', in his capacity. The same is true for all ministers, in whatever position that they hold within their church. They are to be following the Word of God. The Word of God explicitly states that we are to call no man on this earth [spiritual] father. I would, however, have no problem calling a Catholic minister (or deacon, bishop, etc.), "goatelathage."
I noticed that I mis-typed 'skeleton' (above)......sorry.