Love the sinner hate the sin

[InChrist]

To tell you honestly (I'm not a hierarchical person if I believed in a creator), I find some cultures have a much more grounding on commitment isn't defined by sex than many abrahamic religions do. On the outside, it makes it seem if god said jump, people would jump.

Can a christian see commitment between two men if that commitment was the same as male/female despite the sex; or, does sex decide the nature of the commitment (to god) regardless if they are the same from a heart-point of view?

Kinda hard to understand how the christian god defines commitment by one's sex and not the nature of one's heart and commitment (christian or not). Setting aside cultural stereotypes and sex-oriented uneasiness makes it difficult to talk about it.

I don’t think from what is revealed about God in the biblical scriptures the nature of one’s relationship is defined by sex. There is a purpose and reason God designed the marriage commitment between a man and a woman which goes way beyond feelings, commitment or sex. It is about something much bigger... the image of God.


I don’t expect you to understand that or care about that if you don’t know and love the Creator first and foremost. Neither, would I except you or anyone separated from God to have any reason or interest in living according to God’s design.

The linked video explains what I mean by , “ the image of God “. I don’t expect you to agree, but maybe it will present you with more insight into the perspective of Christians, if you feel like watching it at all.

 

[savagewind]

It's a Journal. I like it. I won't comment...because it's a journal. I didn't read the comments because comments do not belong here imo. But, please, let me say that sex sex (two words that are the same and next to each other) invoke a feeling in me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What is that love based on?

In the human world, if you love someone and say you do, you love Who they are-their identity. The problem is associating the sinner to the sin (in homosexuality case) just as one would a murder to a murderer or child molestation to a child molester. The association is inappropriate, and because it is inappropriateness, a christian would be loving the idea of who they feel their friend is and does not how their friend sees himself. I think its called double standard or hypocrisy.

It also does very real harm where a pharmacist would take it upon himself to come between a doctor and her patient. Or adoption agencies that could have placed a child but didn't because it was a gay couple. And the "hate the sin, love the sinner," often comes with discriminatory RFRA bills or the sheer hatred and venomous nature of Prop 8. These group also includes many who would make abortions so restricted that some women would needlessly die.
They say "love the sinner," but in practice we indeed so a lot of "hate the sin, hate the sinner, make society legally reflect our hate, and call it all freedom and love."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's a Journal. I like it. I won't comment...because it's a journal. I didn't read the comments because comments do not belong here imo. But, please, let me say that sex sex (two words that are the same and next to each other) invoke a feeling in me.

Thanks. I didn't meant it to be a debate, really. I was talking about it on another forum and it just bothered me that some christians are just obsessed with that word and can't think beyond it. Anyway. I concure with @Shadow Wolf. Christian translation of that word does a lot more harm than offering a difference of opinion.

 

[jmt09]

I think we all have some bias and judgements somewhere in our hearts that without reflection we may suppress it, deny it, or just plain say I will not change...so others just deal with it.

I think I have that,not the last one since I've never been that type of person. But maybe the first. But I think true spiritual reflection puts you face to face with yourself.

I have a huge issue with "love the sinner, hate the sin" (homosexuality) because...

Analogies.

It's more like you support your friend to come out of the closet but don't support him for the meaning of it.

You only support your friend getting married (not civil union) but not for the nature of the marriage is founded just the sexes of the spouses.

You support your friend with the idea of buying a new car but you only do so depending on how he drives and whose in the passenger seat.

You don't have to like same sex sex (which s NOT homosexuality). I find make male sss a bit uncomfortable myself.

But as a lesbian,I know there is a difference between the action, the sexes, and intent.

If two men love each other, same sex sex isn't wrong. If they hurt each other (to put it lightly), then it is.

The argument of lgbtq really goes beyond one's sex.

Just a ravel not a sermon.View attachment 49512

Thanks for the post Unveiled Artist. I agree with what another commenter said when they said (paraphrasing) that "there isn't anything in principle wrong with 'hate the sin, love the sinner.'" When you love someone and they are being harmed by something they are doing, then you'd "hate" what it is that they are doing. BUT it's not at all clear that something analogous to this is happening when Christians say this.

For one thing, whenever I've heard Christians say this, it is almost exclusively (as you point out) directed at LGBTQ+ folks. “ I really don’t hate gay people, I just hate the gay lifestyle. … You know, I love the sinner, but hate the sin.” When a Christian encounters a greedy person, a divorced-remarried person (many think this is sin), or relative, you'll never hear "hate the sin, love the sinner" fastened to it.

Secondly, it seems to me inappropriate to refer to someone as a "sinner." You'll hear Christians say "I am a sinner. We're all sinners!;" but, if that's true, it is strange to especially slap that label onto another person in the manner that this expression. It comes off as though one is condemning the sin of the other (usually a queer person) as worse than one's own.

Thirdly, in America (where I live), Christians (particularly evangelicals) are more known for what they hate than they are for their love. A group of non-Christians, when asked "Which word would you use to describe evangelicals in general?", 34% said "narrow-minded", 30% said "homophobic", 21% said "misogynistic", and 17% said "racist". These might seem like small percentages, but here are the non-Christian responses to more positive descriptors: "hopeful" (6%), "caring" (9%), and "generous" (7%). Maybe Christians are misunderstood here; maybe they really do love sinners and care about ministering to them. Well, this certainly isn't the common perception and the "hate the sin, love the sinner" phrase isn't doing any favors for their PR problem. .

For whatever it's worth, I basically am a Christian, though I don't really call myself a Christian anymore (for some of the reasons just stated). I follow Jesus as best as I know how. I'm a recovering addict battling mental illness and who has all-to-frequent suicidal ideations. I am often selfish, immature, and prone to despair. Whenever I see/experience love, I have hope. Whenever I have hate in my heart (even at my own sin or that of others) I suffer and so does the world. Okay...that's it. Peace.