[LHP only] Would an RHP Satanist would still be perhaps on the Left Hand Path?

[Sutekh]

Iv'e been wanting to do a debate on this between the LHP community, I notice that some people of the WLHP on this forum which would be Satanism, Luciferianism, and perhaps Setianism would oftenly seem to be closed minded on a Satanist that would bow down or worship a Satan. Understanding that many of us share the same principles that we do not pray or bow down to any entities. However, wouldn't a Satanist who worships or bows down to a Satan would be practicing heterodoxy in general? Heterodoxy after all is within the Left Hand Path.


Feel free to elaborate your theories.

 

[Mindmaster]

Iv'e wanting to do a debate on this between the LHP community, I notice that some people of the WLHP which would be Satanism, Luciferianism, and perhaps Setianism would oftenly seem to be closed minded on a Satanist that would bow down or worship a Satan. Understanding that many of us share the same principles that we do not pray or bow down to any entities. However, wouldn't a Satanist who worships or bows down to a Satan would be practicing heterodoxy in general? Heterodoxy after all is within the Left Hand Path.


Feel free to elaborate your theories.

Most theistic Satanists do not subjugate themselves to Satan and act like reverse Christians, so there's no way to frame the answer in the context that you've painted. Satan is seen as a teacher or ancestor-type who is highly revered, but the relation isn't master-slave. Generally, they'd reject atheism only because they have a different personal experience, and see most of the WLHP as dogmatic. They're into the spiritual freedom bit of it more than anything, but probably have some important reasons to think the way they do for the rest of it, and that comes to personal experience. It's anarcho-spiritual really where the rules/laws are completely rejected, and even the talking points of other LHP groups are rejected. The only thing that really matters to them in the end is their direct relationship/experience of Satan and not what others think of it. There is no team to join, and it is largely a solo endeavor.

They also generally don't care about all of the WLHP buzzwords, so they are irrelevant in application for the most part to their nature.

 

[crossfire]

Iv'e been wanting to do a debate on this between the LHP community, I notice that some people of the WLHP on this forum which would be Satanism, Luciferianism, and perhaps Setianism would oftenly seem to be closed minded on a Satanist that would bow down or worship a Satan. Understanding that many of us share the same principles that we do not pray or bow down to any entities. However, wouldn't a Satanist who worships or bows down to a Satan would be practicing heterodoxy in general? Heterodoxy after all is within the Left Hand Path.


Feel free to elaborate your theories.

WLHP is really more about antinomianism (critiquing the cultural nomos) rather than heterodoxy in general. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Sutekh]

WLHP is really more about antinomianism (critiquing the cultural nomos) rather than heterodoxy in general. Your mileage may vary.

But it isn't antinomianism and heterodoxy nearly the same? After all the WLHP is about going against the social norms and by treading through the darkness. Of course it can be darkness and light from a Luciferian concept.

 

[crossfire]

But it isn't antinomianism and heterodoxy nearly the same? After all the WLHP is about going against the social norms and by treading through the darkness. Of course it can be darkness and light from a Luciferian concept.

No, they are not the same. For example, feminism is one of the most visible and highly developed antinomian movements out there, with their primary work being exposing the subconscious patriarchal elements of our culture (nomos,) and bringing them into consciousness for conscious examination and critique. This is obviously not the same as heterodoxy. However, feminists often get severe scorn and backlash that one might expect to see directed those who are considered heterodox. (Oftentimes feminists are more severely targeted than the heterodox.)

 

[EtuMalku]

Iv'e been wanting to do a debate on this between the LHP community, I notice that some people of the WLHP on this forum which would be Satanism, Luciferianism, and perhaps Setianism would oftenly seem to be closed minded on a Satanist that would bow down or worship a Satan. Understanding that many of us share the same principles that we do not pray or bow down to any entities. However, wouldn't a Satanist who worships or bows down to a Satan would be practicing heterodoxy in general? Heterodoxy after all is within the Left Hand Path.


Feel free to elaborate your theories.

I'm assuming you are strictly talking about the Western Left Hand Path (as opposed to the controversial 'Eastern' LHP)?
I would have to say that whether you are theistic or non-theistic, it depends on your definition of the WLHP.
My personal definition is: cultivating and nurturing one's Isolate Consciousness as a separate and unique quality separate from the Objective Universe and its variations through various degrees of Antinomianism.

So, if the Satanic, Setian or Luciferian theist is indeed pursuing that goal, then I would qualify them as Western Left Hand Path.

 

[crossfire]

Here's a quote from Uncle Setnakt (Don Webb) regarding feminism and LHP antinomianism:

4. Satanism has common aspects with feminism. Both insist on politics of the personal. Both grew from the philosophical cauldron of the sixties. They broke from the institutionalized dialectic of America. Party one says these are the issues, and here's how we solve them. Party two says yeap that those are the issues, and here's how we solve them. Satanism and feminism said no. The important issues are things that society doesn't talk about. Freedom begins with my body. Freedom begins here with my mind. Feminist work centered on body and sexual freedom. Satanism centered on the freedom of desire and thought. The word Indulgence brought about a reversal of morality.
We could seek out all those things denied us by Christ and Freud. We no longer hid our fetishes --we flaunted them. We could even admit to greed (note how deeply the word of Indulgence has penetrated our society --evangelists now preach the love of money, no doubt to the puzzlement of the pale Nazarene). But we escaped from the trap of being a simple antithesis to Judeo-Christianity; in X we received the word of Xeper. We now go beyond external systems of good and evil. Just as our feminist sisters are beginning to achieve freedom of their bodies, we are achieving freedom of our whole being.​

~From Don Webb's Uncle Setnakt Sez columns.

 

[crossfire]

I'm assuming you are strictly talking about the Western Left Hand Path (as opposed to the controversial 'Eastern' LHP)?
I would have to say that whether you are theistic or non-theistic, it depends on your definition of the WLHP.
My personal definition is: cultivating and nurturing one's Isolate Consciousness as a separate and unique quality separate from the Objective Universe and its variations through various degrees of Antinomianism.

So, if the Satanic, Setian or Luciferian theist is indeed pursuing that goal, then I would qualify them as Western Left Hand Path.

With antinomianism, you have to observe and engage your intellect and reasoning powers in order to tease out the nomos that are just outside of the conscious mind so you can analyze them. This practice builds observational and reasoning skills, which can then be turned inwardly to help you discern repressed unconscious content within your own mind and bring it into consciousness for examination. In this respect, antinomianism gives a distinct advantage over heterodoxy, especially if the heterodoxy is merely reactive. (The "trap" Uncle Setnakt mentioned in the above reference.)

 

[Liu]

I'm assuming you are strictly talking about the Western Left Hand Path (as opposed to the controversial 'Eastern' LHP)?
I would have to say that whether you are theistic or non-theistic, it depends on your definition of the WLHP.
My personal definition is: cultivating and nurturing one's Isolate Consciousness as a separate and unique quality separate from the Objective Universe and its variations through various degrees of Antinomianism.

So, if the Satanic, Setian or Luciferian theist is indeed pursuing that goal, then I would qualify them as Western Left Hand Path.

That seems to me rather restricted to one cosmology. I don't think such a restriction fits the LHP well - but for a personal definition it probably works fine.
I for one might be considered a RHP satanist by some of the definitions in this thread, but I nevertheless consider myself LHP.

I don't believe in the existence of a truely objective reality - it's all just (in) the mind of the divine, and we, as parts of it, always see only parts of that mind, from one perspective. So there is nothing we could separate ourselves from. Even the desire to influence reality and to separate oneself is nothing but an aspect of existence.

However, I still aim for self-deification and intend to use heterox or antinomian practices for it if I can and if it helps me. This is my goal since even though ultimately all just is I have the impression that at least the part of all in which I am now (e.g. the cosmos or just merely my own body-mind-complex) could be in a more comfortable shape than it is, and might not need to remain bound to the ignorance and causal restriction to which it currently is.

Furthermore, I venerate a deity whom I submit myself to and of whom I consider myself to be merely a manifestation. Or, in other words, I believe myself to be divine in essence and my inner will to be the god of my world. Am I LHP now or RHP?

 

[1137]

Iv'e been wanting to do a debate on this between the LHP community, I notice that some people of the WLHP on this forum which would be Satanism, Luciferianism, and perhaps Setianism would oftenly seem to be closed minded on a Satanist that would bow down or worship a Satan. Understanding that many of us share the same principles that we do not pray or bow down to any entities. However, wouldn't a Satanist who worships or bows down to a Satan would be practicing heterodoxy in general? Heterodoxy after all is within the Left Hand Path.


Feel free to elaborate your theories.

It depends what you mean by bowing down. I've had times of confusion because I felt compelled to metaphorically kneel before Set, but that would just be contradictory. The point is not to have to kneel, not to be an indwelling for a god or a servant of it, but to be a unique individual doing the work with your god.

 

[crossfire]

With antinomianism, you have to observe and engage your intellect and reasoning powers in order to tease out the nomos that are just outside of the conscious mind so you can analyze them. This practice builds observational and reasoning skills, which can then be turned inwardly to help you discern repressed unconscious content within your own mind and bring it into consciousness for examination. In this respect, antinomianism gives a distinct advantage over heterodoxy, especially if the heterodoxy is merely reactive. (The "trap" Uncle Setnakt mentioned in the above reference.)

In this respect, antinomian works as the research and preparation for acts of Greater Black Magick: You observe nomos in the objective, outer realm that you wish to change, tease out and identify the relevant nomos, then turn inwards and do soul-searching within your subjective self in the same manner that you look for nomos is the outer objective realm. Once you identify the repressed problem within yourself, you resolve it, and then turn what you have learned about yourself back onto the objective, outer realm to resolve the nomos behind the problem, which is the beginning of affecting objective change.

 

[Adramelek]

In my personal experience in the Temple of Set -- strong friendships and bonds are made over years between certain Initiates. We can sense the progression and evolution of a colleagues Initiation and Xeper. Every Degree of the ToS has its own "Jeweled Tablet of Set". Way back in the early 1990's when I was a First Degree Initiate of the ToS an Adept II* friend of mine, sensing my impending Second Degree Recognition, let me glance through his "Ruby Tablet of Set" reserved for II* Adepts. Years later a III* Priest of Set friend of mine let me glance through his "Onyx Tablet of Set" reserved for III* Initiates of the Priesthood of Set. Within this document there was a chapter titled "Do You Worship Set?" And after long introspection I discovered that in a way I do "worship" Set, but not in the traditional sense of the word. I do not subjugate or surrender my mind and will to him, such things are an affront to Set and his Gift of the Black Flame. However, I do honor and revere Set as the Prince of Darkness and the creator of my soul/psyche. And yes, there are times during ritual workings when I feel compelled/inspired to kneel for a few seconds before the Altar of Set, in admiration and sacred exaltation of the Ageless Intelligence of this Universe, and in honor of his holy Pentagram and Black Flame.

 

[crossfire]

In my personal experience in the Temple of Set -- strong friendships and bonds are made over years and personal dialogue between certain Initiates. We can sense the progression and evolution of a colleagues Initiation and Xeper. Every Degree of the ToS has its own "Jeweled Tablet of Set". Way back in the early 1990's when I was a First Degree Initiate of the ToS an Adept II* friend of mine, sensing my impending Second Degree Recognition, let me glance through his "Ruby Tablet of Set" reserved for II* Adepts. Years later a III* Priest of Set friend of mine let me glance through his "Onyx Tablet of Set" reserved for III* Initiates of the Priesthood of Set. Within this document there was a chapter titled "Do You Worship Set?" And after long introspection I discovered that in a way I do "worship" Set, but not in the traditional sense of the word. I do not subjugate or surrender my mind and will to him, such things are an affront to Set and his Gift of the Black Flame. However, I do honor and revere Set as the Prince of Darkness and the creator of my soul/psyche. And yes, there are times during ritual workings when I feel compelled/inspired to kneel for a few seconds before the Black Altar of Set, in admiration and sacred exaltation of the Ageless Intelligence of this Universe, and in honor of his holy Pentagram and Black Gift.

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