Less pay for same work?

[Mathematician]

If companies could get away with paying women less than men for exactly the same work, solely because they're women, then companies would only employ women, no? Companies want profit.

 

[Madhuri]

No, women are often considered unreliable or even a pain as they have this tendency to get pregnant and go on maternity leave or prefer part-time/casual employment.

 

[Mathematician]

No, women are often considered unreliable or even a pain as they have this tendency to get pregnant and go on maternity leave or prefer part-time/casual employment.

But if women prefer part-time and casual employment, that doesn't amount to equal work. Less is usually expected of someone in those positions.

I've been reading The Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell. Doctor Farrell is the only man to have served on the NOW board for New York and self-identifies as a feminist, but he comprehensively shows that man work harder, take less desirable shifts, stay longer in one career, take on more tasks (like moving heavy equipment), are more likely to die at the same workplaces, and more, which accumulates in a wage gap. Women start out employed at the same base level but don't advance because they make these decisions, overall.

 

[Reverend Rick]

From an employer's stand point, an employee is in control of their worth to me. If you give me more than I pay for in productivity, I want to reward that work ethic. I will do anything possible to keep that employee happy and employed with me. Some folks are worth three or four times more than what others are. If you are self motivated and responsible, you are invaluable in my opinion. If I have to constantly supervise and correct someone, they are worthless to me, it would be easier to just do these things myself and I often do.

 

[MoonWater]

But if women prefer part-time and casual employment, that doesn't amount to equal work. Less is usually expected of someone in those positions.

I've been reading The Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell. Doctor Farrell is the only man to have served on the NOW board for New York and self-identifies as a feminist, but he comprehensively shows that man work harder, take less desirable shifts, stay longer in one career, take on more tasks (like moving heavy equipment), are more likely to die at the same workplaces, and more, which accumulates in a wage gap. Women start out employed at the same base level but don't advance because they make these decisions, overall.

what are these findings based on exactly? Also one has to consider whether these things are true because women in general tend not to do these things out of choice or if they tend not to do these things because they simply aren't afforded the opportunity due to their gender. As an example I am more than happy taking time to refill the ice in the soda machine at work but am not afforded the opportunity to do so simply due to the fact that me being a woman "must mean I am not strong enough to lift that big heavy container of ice". And this was assumed even before I tried doing it at all. A minor example but I hope it illustrates my point.

Not to mention there are more male employees out there than female ones which can often skew the results.

 

[Mathematician]

Not to mention there are more male employees out there than female ones which can often skew the results.

Not anymore: In a First, Women Surpass Men on U.S. Payrolls - NYTimes.com

what are these findings based on exactly? Also one has to consider whether these things are true because women in general tend not to do these things out of choice or if they tend not to do these things because they simply aren't afforded the opportunity due to their gender. As an example I am more than happy taking time to refill the ice in the soda machine at work but am not afforded the opportunity to do so simply due to the fact that me being a woman "must mean I am not strong enough to lift that big heavy container of ice". And this was assumed even before I tried doing it at all. A minor example but I hope it illustrates my point.

It's a combination of both. Men also can lift more in general and so are more likely to be promoted in organizations that require manual work where they have a natural advantage. I can definitely see men not even allowing their female coworkers a shot, though. It may be emasculating or even viewed as "ungentlemanly."

 

[Meow Mix]

If a wage gap really is because of actual merit and decisions made by particular men, then so be it. That's fair.

However, I hope people do continue to keep an eye on it though for the possibility that women really are reaching glass ceilings. That would be unacceptable.

 

[Vile Atheist]

If companies could get away with paying women less than men for exactly the same work, solely because they're women, then companies would only employ women, no? Companies want profit.

It's not that simple. It is undeniable there is a physiological difference between men and women. Men tend to be stronger than women. In some industries, like construction, that tends to be an important factor in workplace safety, the ability to operate heavy machinery, etc. That doesn't mean that women aren't or shouldn't be employed in industries like construction, but obviously it's going to be dominated by men. It's also true for the most part that men are willing to take on dirtier, tougher, heavier jobs than women. At my place of work, the women automatically delegate all the dirty, tough, heavy tasks to me by sole virtue of me having a penis. Is that fair? If I have an ability that they do not, sure it is. And should I get paid more for it? Yes.

Guess who opens up the mouse traps and disposes of dead mice? Guess who takes out the garbage? Guess who lifts extremely large and heavy boxes? Guess who climbs up on really high and unstable ladders? Are you telling me it's fair that I do all this extra dirty, heavy, and dangerous work in addition to my job description and I get paid the same as a woman who actively refuses to do these tasks and instead delegates them to me? And if I don't do them, they won't get done? Of course not. And any woman who DOES do these tasks should get paid the same as any man for doing the same work, having the same experience and education and training, etc.

 

[Madhuri]

Keep in mind that remuneration systems work in such a way that take into consideration a number of factors about the individual. Two men could have the same job title in a firm but be paid different amounts. I am no expert (yet) but it seems to be that women are often graded lower.

This is just one reason why women are sometimes paid less.

As for why companies would not want to hire more women for profitability reasons, I know for a fact that women of a certain age group are seen as less desirable due to the probability of their getting pregnant, going on maternity leave and being generally stressed out with balancing their work/home life (which can = less productivity and less profit).

Again, only one factor. I'm sure there are numerous.

 

[MoonWater]

It's not that simple. It is undeniable there is a physiological difference between men and women. Men tend to be stronger than women. In some industries, like construction, that tends to be an important factor in workplace safety, the ability to operate heavy machinery, etc. That doesn't mean that women aren't or shouldn't be employed in industries like construction, but obviously it's going to be dominated by men. It's also true for the most part that men are willing to take on dirtier, tougher, heavier jobs than women. At my place of work, the women automatically delegate all the dirty, tough, heavy tasks to me by sole virtue of me having a penis. Is that fair? If I have an ability that they do not, sure it is. And should I get paid more for it? Yes.

Guess who opens up the mouse traps and disposes of dead mice? Guess who takes out the garbage? Guess who lifts extremely large and heavy boxes? Guess who climbs up on really high and unstable ladders? Are you telling me it's fair that I do all this extra dirty, heavy, and dangerous work in addition to my job description and I get paid the same as a woman who actively refuses to do these tasks and instead delegates them to me? And if I don't do them, they won't get done? Of course not. And any woman who DOES do these tasks should get paid the same as any man for doing the same work, having the same experience and education and training, etc.

but that's just it, in your case it ISN'T about less pay for same work. You ARE doing more work and as such yes you SHOULD get payed more. That's not the issue. The issue would be if a woman were doing all the same tasks you were and yet still got paid less than you did. That would be and IS a problem.

 

[Vile Atheist]

but that's just it, in your case it ISN'T about less pay for same work. You ARE doing more work and as such yes you SHOULD get payed more. That's not the issue. The issue would be if a woman were doing all the same tasks you were and yet still got paid less than you did. That would be and IS a problem.

In my case, those same women are getting paid the same or MORE than what I'm making.

 

[MoonWater]

In my case, those same women are getting paid the same or MORE than what I'm making.

And in that case I would agree that is wrong for them to get paid more if they are not pulling the same weight.

 

[Vile Atheist]

And in that case I would agree that is wrong for them to get paid more if they are not pulling the same weight.

To be fair, yesterday was my last day at that place of employment as I have found a new job, but the point holds.