samtonga43
Well-Known Member
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Muhammad, the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Krishna and Zoroaster, Buddha, Abraham and Moses could never have paid the price of sin for all of humanity. Why? Because they were human beings.
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Legitimate reasons not to believe in God
- Thread starter Trailblazer
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Muhammad, the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Krishna and Zoroaster, Buddha, Abraham and Moses could never have paid the price of sin for all of humanity. Why? Because they were human beings.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Imagine for one minute that you are the person with a warm place in which to live, money to buy food and cars, and friends to talk to.
Are you suffering more than those in this world in dire need, more than the child who has lost her mother and father in Ukraine, more than the victims of terrible abuse (often from their own family members).
You think the horrors above are 'physical niceties'?
You should be ashamed.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Bible Verses About Fear of God
Fearing the Lord is important to obedience to God. Godly fear helps you trust in the Lord and His plans. Jesus Christ is a good shepherd. A good shepherd understands that they can keep their sheep safe within the fence. He wants you to depart from evil. He wants to walk with you during the hard times. God despises sin. Learn to fear the Lord. When you learn to fear God, you will learn to trust in God. Here are our editor's picks of the best Bible verses about fear:
1. Proverbs 1:7 KJV
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
2. Proverbs 9:10 KJV
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
3. Proverbs 2:1-5 KJV
My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
4. Proverbs 8:13 KJV
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
5. Proverbs 14:27 KJV
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.
6. Proverbs 15:16 KJV
Better is little with the fear of the Lord than great treasure and trouble therewith.
7. Proverbs 19:23 KJV
The fear of the Lord tendeth to life: and he that hath it shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil.
8. 2 Samuel 23:3 KJV
The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
9. 2 Chronicles 26:5 KJV
And he sought God in the days of Zechariah, who had understanding in the visions of God: and as long as he sought the Lord, God made him to prosper.
10. Matthew 10:28 KJV
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
11. Job 28:28 KJV
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
12. Job 31:23 KJV
For destruction from God was a terror to me, and by reason of his highness I could not endure.
13. Exodus 18:21 KJV
Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
14. Exodus 20:20 KJV
And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
15. 2 Chronicles 19:7 KJV
Wherefore now let the fear of the Lord be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.
16. Psalms 25:14 KJV
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
17. Psalms 64:9 KJV
And all men shall fear, and shall declare the work of God; for they shall wisely consider of his doing.
18. Psalms 34:11 KJV
Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the Lord.
19. Psalms 111:10 KJV
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
20. Psalms 23:1-6 KJV
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
21. Luke 1:50 KJV
And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
22. 1 Peter 5:6-7 KJV
Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
23. Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
24. Deuteronomy 11:22 KJV
For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
25. Deuteronomy 31:6 KJV
Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
26. Romans 8:38-39 KJV
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
27. Isaiah 6:3-5 KJV
And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
28. Acts 9:31 KJV
Then had the churches rest throughout all Judæa and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Top 28 Powerful Bible Verses About the Fear of God
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is not the reason they did not pay the price of sin. The reason is because that was not the mission God gave them to do.
Jesus was a both human and divine, just like all the other Manifestations of God listed.
The only difference was that He had been given a different mission from God.
"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
As usual, you make unfounded assumptions regarding what I said.
I said: A person can a warm place in which to live, money to buy food and cars, and friends to talk to, and suffer more than a person who does not have all the physical niceties. Suffering is highly subjective, as is happiness.
I did not say anything about myself and whether I am suffering more or less than anyone else.
I did not say anything about the horrors you mentioned or refer to them as 'physical niceties.'
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
As an ex-Christian, I believe that if a religious man named Yehoshua (Yeshua, Jesus) ever existed, the stories about him in the Bible, written by his followers or others who believed the stories they heard about him, were most likely embellished, and more folklore was later added to make him appear to be more than he actually was. Moreover, I believe that a few of the stories about him were likely adapted from Greek mythology and other pagan religions that predate Christianity and the Bible. Personally, I believe that paganism had a significant impact on Christianity. In an effort to not derail your thread with my opinions on this specific topic, I'll instead post a link to an older post of mine where I explain why I believe a few stories of Jesus were copied. You can read my post by clicking here.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There are some liberal Christians who share your views, at least about the resurrection.
What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death
Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1
They also believe that Paul regarded the resurrection to be an act of God in which Jesus was a passive recipient of God's power. Paul did not mention the empty tomb, the visit by a woman or women, the stone, the angel/angels/man/men at the tomb, and reunion of Jesus with his followers in his resuscitated body. Rather, he believed that Jesus was taken up into heaven in a spirit body. It was only later, from about 70 to 110 CE when the four canonic Gospels were written, that the Christians believed that Jesus rose from the grave in his original body, and by his own power.
Later, perhaps after Paul's death, there was great disappointment within the Christian communities because Jesus had not returned as expected. They diverted their focus of attention away from Jesus' second coming. They studied his life and death more intensely. Legends without a historical basis were created by the early church; these included the empty tomb and described Jesus returning in his original body to eat and talk with his followers.
In previous centuries, almost all Christians believed in miracles as described in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). These included creation, the story of Adam and Eve, a talking serpent, the great flood of Noah, the drying up of the Red/Reed sea, a prophet riding on a talking ***, the sun stopping in the sky, etc. From the Christian Scriptures (New Testament), they believed in the virgin birth, the Christmas star, angels appearing to the shepherds, Jesus healing the sick, etc. Many, perhaps most, liberal Christians now believe that these stories are not to be interpreted literally as real events. Their faith has not been damaged by losing faith in the reality of these events. A growing number of liberals are now taking the final step by interpreting the stories of Jesus' resurrection and his appearances to his followers and to Paul as other than real events.
Beliefs of progressive Christians, secularists, etc. about Jesus' resurrection
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
The Bible has many inconsistencies, as you've amply demonstrated in your argument, perhaps even unintentionally. There are also scriptures that claim that God never changes, such as Numbers 23:19, which says, "God is not a man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said it, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" And Malachi 3:6 says, "I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed." However, other verses imply that God changes his mind (Jeremiah 18:5–10; Joel 2:13; Jonah 4:2), describe God changing his mind (Exodus 32:14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jonah 3:10), or assume that God will change his mind (Jeremiah 26:3; Joel 2:14; Jonah 3:9). It's clear these verses contradict Numbers 23:19 and Malachi 3:6.
Amos 7:3 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.
Amos 7:6 "The Lord changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord God.
Exodus 32:14 "So the Lord changed His mind about the harm that He said He would do to His people."
Jonah 3:10 "When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, he relented on the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it."
Jeremiah 26:3 "Perhaps they will listen and each one will turn back from his evil way, and I will change my mind concerning the calamity that I intend to bring on them because of their evil deeds."
TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
Except it's already been given that the parent's response will be what causes the harm.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You can say THAT again!
I was going to say that to @samtonga43 to whom I was responding but I thought I would let her figure that out herself.
I did not do it unintentionally.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And how could the Bible be consistent, given how many different authors contributed to it?
That would be logically impossible.
TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
Some might use that as a license to disobey and roll the dice.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Some might, but I choose to obey so as not to take any chances.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I don't think Baha'is believe we inherited a sin nature or have inherited some original sin from Adam. So, why would Jesus even need to have died to pay for the sins of the world? There is no hell where sinners get cast into. No Satan tempting them. I think Baha'is are more like a "works" kind of religion and don't believe that salvation is the free gift from God that doesn't require the person to earn their own salvation.
Baha'is pick and choose what they want to believe about Jesus and the Bible. But it's also important to know what they don't believe about the Bible. Like they say they believe he died for the sins of the world, but then he stayed dead and didn't resurrect? So, to me, it doesn't mean much when they say they believe Jesus did this or that, when they reject other things about him.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Some religions, like the Baha'i Faith and many sects of Christianity, put their followers in a no-win situation. They are never going to be perfect and not do things that disobey the rules they believe came from God. So, what do they do? Do they feel guilty and repent? Which means they shouldn't do that particular sin anymore, but they probably will. So, they haven't really repented. After a while, if they continue with that same sinful behavior and are going to ever stop doing it, what do they do? Ignore it, and accept that they can't ever live up to God's rules? Or ignore their God and expect him to put up with them and those few sins that they do? Or do they live with the guilt that they can't stop doing some things that their God objects to?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Other than Jews, which religions take the whole Bible as true and literal and actually follow and really believe it is the Word of God? I think Christians, Muslims and Baha'is all just cherry-pick the Bible for quote they can use for their own religion. But to add these other religions in with the Bible just adds to the inconsistencies. Baha'is put themselves in the worst position, because they kind of accept all the Scriptures of all the other religions, so there is nothing but inconsistencies all the way through. But that is easily remedied by saying they have superseded all the other religions. Making the other religions and their Scriptures no longer relevant.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
That's a quote I never heard from you before, and I don't remember quoting that to you. I don't remember that passage, period. Did some other Baha'i quote that to you, or did you find this on your own?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I found that quote because I was doing a search for Ever-Forgiving. Sometimes one thing leads to another.
When I saw it was from the Bab, I said no wonder it is so beautiful!
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I guess that derived from when we were discussing forgiveness, and you searched for an answer? Amazing!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I was discussing fear of God and someone else said that I fear God because God would punish me and then I said even if God could punish me He would not necessarily do so because God is forgiving. That is what led me to the quote.I guess that derived from when we were discussing forgiveness, and you searched for an answer? Amazing!