LDS Only : Can our bodies be possessed by the devil and his followers?

[Bishka]

Although his original response was edited, MH stated that those 'devils' in the scriptures were actually seizures, do you believe that the devil has power to possess our bodies at times or that the scriptures were just talking about seizures? (MH this isn't a jab at you, but I've heard and read completely different from Church sources, so I thought I'd dig into it a bit deeper, this is not meaning to offend, ok? )

My personal beliefs is that yes, it can happen, but it does not happen as often as many people think. It is not going to happen every day, all the time. I'm curious what the rest of you think in light of what the prophets and the scriptures say.

you do realize that those "devils" were siezures, there are no "devils" to be cast out of a human body,the statements of devils back then were because they didn't knwo how to explain that a sezure is a brain-chemical imbalance or nerve damage, epilepsy ect... Satan and his followers can never posess or gain mortal bodies, you should know that.

Found in the scriptures instances of devils in human bodies:

Luke 9:42

42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

Luke 4:33-36

33 ¶ And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
34 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

Matthew 8:28-33

28 ¶ And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
33 And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.

Joseph Smith History 1:15

15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

From Joseph Smith:

The spirits in the eternal world are like the spirits in this world. When those have come into this world and received tabernacles, then died and again have rise and received glorified bodies, they will have an ascendancy over the spirits who have received no bodies, or not kept their first estate, like the devil.

The punishment of the devil was that he should not have a habitation like men. The devil's retaliation is, he comes into this world, binds up men's bodies and occupies them himself. When the authorities come along, they eject him from a stolen habitation.

(In the Nauvoo Temple, from a discourse on the first chapter of Second Peter, May 21, 1843; HC5:403)

From Brigham Young:

You are aware that many think that devil has rule and power over both body and spirit. Now, I want to tell you that he does not hold any power over man, only so far as the body overcome the spirit that is in a man, through yielding to the spirit of evil.

The spirit that the Lord puts into a tabernacle of flesh, is under dictation of the Lord Almighty; but the spirit and body are united in order that the spirit may have a tabernacle, and be exalted; and the spirit is influenced by the body, and the body by the spirit.

In the first place the spirit is pure, and under the special control and influence of the Lord, but the body is of the earth, and subject to the power of the devil, and is under the mighty influence of that fallen nature that is of the earth. If the spirit yields to the body, the devil then has power to overcome both body and spirit of that man, and he lost both.

(In Tabernacle, April 6, 1855, JD2:255-56_

Honestly, what do you think? (Again MH, this isn't a jab at you, I've just heard completely different on the subject and thought we could perchance discuss the idea)

 

[Comprehend]

Alvin R. Dyer, Who Am I?, p.235 - 236

Recognizing their unembodied condition, and their ultimate doom without a tabernacle of flesh and bone, evil spirits seek to take possession of the natural bodies of the sons and daughters of God, and even the bodies of animals. Scriptural accounts bear record of these attempts. All of this simply bears out the foreknowledge of God's design for man which these evil spirits have retained.


President Rudger Clawson, Conference Report, April 1939, Church of the Air Broadcast, p.118

Their eagerness to secure bodies is so great that in many cases they endeavor to steal the bodies of the more favored spirits, and when these evil spirits enter into and take possession of the bodies of others we say of those afflicted that they are possessed by evil spirits. They can only be subdued and cast out of stolen bodies by those members of Christ's Church who are under divine authority.


Legrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, p.293

When Jesus had cast out the evil spirit from the man whom no man could bind with chains, he asked his name, and the spirit replied, "Legion: for we are many." (See Mark 5:2-9.) Upon being commanded to leave the body of the man who was possessed, the evil spirits asked the privilege of entering the bodies of swine feeding in the field, and when their request was granted, "the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea." (Mark 5:13.) It is so desirable to have a body that these evil spirits, who had forfeited the right to bodies of their own, were even willing to enter the bodies of swine.


The Contributor, Volume 7
A company of two hundred and forty-nine males, and two hundred and sixty-six females... in Kirtland, on the fifth of July, 1838; and the next day started for Missouri. The journey was long and tedious; many difficulties were encountered and obstacles overcome. A spirit of murmuring was frequently manifest, much sickness was among them, and because of their disobedience, evil spirits plagued them by getting possession of their bodies.


Evil Spirits Can Possess Bodies of Mortals
Alvin R. Dyer, The Meaning of Truth, rev. ed., p.149-150

...Another incident of noteworthy reference, giving some evidence of the number of evil spirits that roam the earth, concerns two maniacs who were sorely tormented by evil spirits. One of these at least, according to the Gospels, had been bound with fetters and chains, but, with demoniac power had broken them away and had fled to the mountains to live among the tombs like an animal. Night and day his weird and terrifying shrieks could be heard. Seeing Jesus, the poor creature ran toward and was prostrate before him, crying out with a loud voice:
What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God?

Jesus commanded the evil spirits to leave. One or more of them through the voice of the man, pleaded to be left alone, and with blasphemous presumption exclaimed:
I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not- Art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

The demons, by whom the man was possessed and controlled, recognized the Master, whom they knew they had to obey; but they pleaded to be left alone until the decreed time of their final punishment.



Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 1:, p.65

DEVILS STEAL BODIES. At times these fallen spirits steal possession of the bodies of men and women, overpowering the spirit who has rightful ownership. They realize what they have lost and are willing, when opportunity is given them, of possessing bodies of lower animals, so anxious are they to be clothed with flesh even for a season. On one occasion a legion of these evil spirits, when cast out by the Lord, asked the privilege of entering the bodies of a herd of swine. Out of Mary Magdalene the Lord cast seven devils. These evil spirits know the Lord from the knowledge and experience they obtained in the heavens before their banishment for rebellion. They called him by name when he disturbed them in their stolen habitations, saying: "Thou art Christ the Son of God, . . . for they knew that he was Christ."

 

[Comprehend]

Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 1-4 vols., edited by Daniel H. Ludlow (New York: Macmillan, 1992),, p.380

By obeying Satan, Adam and Eve opened the way for him to have partial dominion over them, over the earth, and over all of their children (see Fall of Adam). Examples of his partial dominion over the earth granted by the Father are his ability to possess the bodies of animals (Matt. 8:28-32) and to use water to destroy people (D&C 61:14-19). Satan gained the power to tempt those who are accountable to do evil (D&C 29:39), to communicate with individuals to teach them things (usually but not always lies), to possess their bodies, to foster illness and disease, and to cause mortal death. He promotes sin, the doing of evil, which brings spiritual death to the sinner and misery to all those affected. In each of these opportunities, Satan's power is limited: He can do only what he has specific permission from God to do (D&C 121:4; Luke 8:30-33). His power may be taken away by individuals as they hearken to God and as they correctly use the holy priesthood to limit his operations (D&C 50:13-35).

Victor L. Ludlow, Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel, p.57

Unlike the Father and Son, the Holy Ghost can "dwell in us." That is, his Spirit can enter into our bodies and commune directly with our own spirit. Mortal man cannot endure the glorified presence of the Father and Son unless his flesh be transfigured, so the Holy Ghost is sent to prepare men and lead them gradually back into God's presence. (See D&C 76:11-12.) It should not seem too strange that the Holy Ghost, as a spirit person, can actually enter into the body of a human being, since the scriptures record examples of spirits, both good and evil, who have entered into people. For example, the New Testament records one account where a legion of demons possessed a person's body to overwhelm and bind his whole soul. (See Mark 5:1-15; cf. Matt. 8:28-32.) Then, too, the power and influence of wickedness-like that of the Holy Ghost-can be spread throughout the world and among many people at once as Satan's legions undermine the spiritual influences of the members of the Godhead.

 

[Aqualung]

What I don't understand is the idea that being possessed seems to contradict the right to choose. If we are possessed by an evil spirit, that means that what we are doing is what that evil spirit is making us do, not what we are choosing to do. Or, one might say that one can only be possessed if they will it and will whatever the evil spirit is doing, but why then draw a distinction between demonic possession and bad actions that are not done under that influence.

 

[Comprehend]

What I don't understand is the idea that being possessed seems to contradict the right to choose. If we are possessed by an evil spirit, that means that what we are doing is what that evil spirit is making us do, not what we are choosing to do. Or, one might say that one can only be possessed if they will it and will whatever the evil spirit is doing, but why then draw a distinction between demonic possession and bad actions that are not done under that influence.

not anyone may be possessed just because a spirit wants to, you have to be doing bad or inviting it in some way. Secondly, all evil spirits are subject to the priesthood and must depart when commanded.

 

[jonny]

not anyone may be possessed just because a spirit wants to, you have to be doing bad or inviting it in some way. Secondly, all evil spirits are subject to the priesthood and must depart when commanded.

I agree - For someone to become posessed, one needs to invite the evil into their life.

 

[nutshell]

I believe most of what we see in the NT were seizures.

However, one can become possessed. General Authorities were dispatched to the little town I grew up in to perform an exorcism. This was long before I was born and I'd chalk it up to Mormon Folklore if it wasn't for my best friend's dad living the experience.

As for casting out devils/spirits, I agree the priesthood can do this, but even more fundamentally, so can commanding in the name of / invoking the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[madhatter85]

No, a evil spirit cannot dwell within a human body, theya re denied the right to have bodies and all they can do is temp, persuade, and lull peopel into doing thier bidding.

I think there is such a thing as being in-tune with the Holy spirit, and in that sense it is possible to be in-tune with the devil, but you have to invite that into your life, even then you are not "posessed" you are being led around, Mnobody, not even God can take away our free-agency. Being "posessed" woudl disregard that law.

Yes, there may be harmful spriits around, and dwelling in unclean and unrighteous homes, and sometimes the only way to rid them is to use the power of the priesthood, exorcising the power of Heavenly Father through the name of Christ.

The Aronic Priesthood holds the keys to the ministering of angels. They are allowed to concecrate and bless homes for thier families and allow angels to dwell with them. that is thier power. That same power has the ability to cast out evil spirits from around them.

Anyways, One can be so far ingrained into unrighteousness that they are capable of being led around like a bull with a nose ring. But, a evil spirit cannot reside inside the body of someone. all they can do is stand behind with hands on their shoulders whispering in thier ears persuading.

Another thing, As i was reading The Miracle Of Forgiveness, I came across a statement made by Spencer W. Kimball about how "Broad-Mindedness" is not a part of the Lord's program, "Broad is the gate that leads into destruction, and narrow that path that leads to eternal life and happiness." Being Narrow minded is not being closed minded, but being broad minded in regards to the Lord's program is inviting temptation and other thoughts of ill-will into your mind and life. there is only one path, a narrow one, not wavering, not crooked, not wide and unallowing for errors in direction and walking.

People that are so influenced by satan and his followers are the most broad minded people in the world. those are the ones that become so called "posessed" because they allow satan to influence every aspect and facet of thier decisions in life.

 

[Comprehend]

No, a evil spirit cannot dwell within a human body, theya re denied the right to have bodies and all they can do is temp, persuade, and lull peopel into doing thier bidding.

I think there is such a thing as being in-tune with the Holy spirit, and in that sense it is possible to be in-tune with the devil, but you have to invite that into your life, even then you are not "posessed" you are being led around, Mnobody, not even God can take away our free-agency. Being "posessed" woudl disregard that law.

Yes, there may be harmful spriits around, and dwelling in unclean and unrighteous homes, and sometimes the only way to rid them is to use the power of the priesthood, exorcising the power of Heavenly Father through the name of Christ.

The Aronic Priesthood holds the keys to the ministering of angels. They are allowed to concecrate and bless homes for thier families and allow angels to dwell with them. that is thier power. That same power has the ability to cast out evil spirits from around them.

Anyways, One can be so far ingrained into unrighteousness that they are capable of being led around like a bull with a nose ring. But, a evil spirit cannot reside inside the body of someone. all they can do is stand behind with hands on their shoulders whispering in thier ears persuading.

um... ok. So what do you think of all the scriptures and quotes? All the prophets and church leaders don't know what they are talking about but you do?

 

[madhatter85]

What I don't understand is the idea that being possessed seems to contradict the right to choose. If we are possessed by an evil spirit, that means that what we are doing is what that evil spirit is making us do, not what we are choosing to do. Or, one might say that one can only be possessed if they will it and will whatever the evil spirit is doing, but why then draw a distinction between demonic possession and bad actions that are not done under that influence.

Exactly, peopel alwasy have free-agency, it can never be taken away, Yes it may be hard to stop soemthing and it may be scary or uncomfortable, but you can always do it. people who allow themselves to be influenced that much, they still have free will, but they choose to follow the wrong influences.

As for a spirit possesing any body, it cannot happen even in the smallest degree, our bodies and spirits are bound to eachother completely, our bodies will never be taken from us, and will never allow any other spirit to be housed inside. Our bodies are a gift from our heavenly father and everyone, good or evil will be resurrected and then judged.

 

[FFH]

I believe most of what we see in the NT were seizures.

Jesus said otherwise...

 

[madhatter85]

um... ok. So what do you think of all the scriptures and quotes? All the prophets and church leaders don't know what they are talking about but you do?

You're takign it wrong, times were different back then and there were still alot of influences about superstitions ect...

Those acts of being "frozen" and couldn't speak, were being scared of the feeling and presence of such an evil influence, Satan has no hold or control on the human body, he never had a body.

In the D&C, it talks about messengers that claim to be from God, if you extend your hand to them and they do nothing and continue with thier message, they are an angel. If they extend thier arm and youa re able to touch them and feel thier heavenly presence, they are translated or resurrected beings, if they extend thier hand and you feel nothing, they are not of god and should be cast out. they have no power over the flesh and they have no power over your mind. all they can do is tempt you with things that are real and are dangerous, it's always your choice to pick up the cigarette, to "take the next base", to take that drink, to say those words. It's always your choice.

 

[madhatter85]

Jesus said otherwise...

No, the translation of what people wrote down of what jesus said, said those things.

God speaks to people and teaches them according to thier knowledge and what they will understand.

the gospel is progressive, Adam's law of sacrifice, Moses' Law, the Ten commandments, Jesus's Law of "turn the other cheek" and forgiveness, The laws became higher and higher as time went on and people were able to accept and understand it.

people of that day had no understanding of neurons and brain chemicals and nervous systems. they only understood in what they could rationalize it to be, which often had to do with superstitions. If christ said "Oh he's just havign a seizure, i can fix that" It would be like sitting a redneck in on a physics symposium

 

[FFH]

No, a evil spirit cannot dwell within a human body, theya re denied the right to have bodies and all they can do is temp, persuade, and lull peopel into doing thier bidding.

If you've ever been through the temple you would know this is not true...

Satan and his angels can possess our bodies...

I have seen a demon come out of a body and have spoken with a person who's spirit floated above his body while his body was possessed...

It happens under circumstances such as pre-maritial sex, use of illegal drugs, adultry, murder, etc..

Serious sins bring about demon possession...

Child abuse, spouse abuse and rape are other examples...

 

[FFH]

No, the translation of what people wrote down of what jesus said, said those things.

God speaks to people and teaches them according to thier knowledge and what they will understand.

the gospel is progressive, Adam's law of sacrifice, Moses' Law, the Ten commandments, Jesus's Law of "turn the other cheek" and forgiveness, The laws became higher and higher as time went on and people were able to accept and understand it.

people of that day had no understanding of neurons and brain chemicals and nervous systems. they only understood in what they could rationalize it to be, which often had to do with superstitions.

The Joseph Smith inspired version confirms the King James as correct.

Those weren't seizures, but demon possessions..

Christ said, it's only by much prayer and fasting can a demon be cast out..

Several times I have had to fast for more than one day in order to get Satan out of my life....

Fasting for more than a day kicks demons in the head and out of your life...

 

[Bishka]

people of that day had no understanding of neurons and brain chemicals and nervous systems. they only understood in what they could rationalize it to be, which often had to do with superstitions.

Did you not even read what comprehend and I both provided. Several statements on how an evil spirit can possess the body. Even a quote by Joseph Smith, does that mean nothing to you? Several statements on how it can be possible, provided from a multitude of sources. What prophetical or otherwise commentary leads you to believe that they were just imbalances or seizures?

 

[SoyLeche]

Did you not even read what comprehend and I both provided. Several statements on how an evil spirit can possess the body. Even a quote by Joseph Smith, does that mean nothing to you? Several statements on how it can be possible, provided from a multitude of sources. What prophetical or otherwise commentary leads you to believe that they were just imbalances or seizures?

Not to mention the fact that casting out a demon was the first miracle performed in this dispensation.

 

[Bishka]

Not to mention the fact that casting out a demon was the first miracle performed in this dispensation.

Yep.

 

[FFH]

Christ identified the disease, if there was one, and if there was a demon, he addressed that demon, and commanded that demon or demons to come out...

Satan entered into Peter, when Peter tried to prevent Christ from eventually going to the cross....

Christ said to Peter, "Get thee behind me Satan".

 

[madhatter85]

Well, you know what? I'm just going to live my life in such a fashion that i will be able to use the power of the priesthood to keep satan out of my life and out of my home.