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LDS Christians i have a question

Endless

Active Member
Just to clarify that i'm not out to attack anyone's faith or beliefs (i will question them though) but i had to post this up when i read it, couldn't quite get my head around it...

Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven? (The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264. See reprint in Mormonism -- Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, page 4.)
:biglaugh:I couldn't believe my eyes when i read this - is this true??? Doing a bit more research apparently Brigham Young taught there was life on the Moon as well - think he also taught that there was life on the sun too (JOD 13:271). :eek: Surely not?
 

Aqualung

Tasty
At face value, yes it is hard to accept them. That's why all LDS members are encouraged to pray about and study everything they are ever told.
 

Squirt

Well-Known Member
Endless said:
Just to clarify that i'm not out to attack anyone's faith or beliefs (i will question them though) but i had to post this up when i read it, couldn't quite get my head around it...

:biglaugh:I couldn't believe my eyes when i read this - is this true??? Doing a bit more research apparently Brigham Young taught there was life on the Moon as well - think he also taught that there was life on the sun too (JOD 13:271). :eek: Surely not?
Where on earth do you go to dig up this stuff? You know, I just can't help but wonder why you would go to anti-Mormon websites if you want accurate information about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Would you go to the National Enquirer to get the latest world news, or would you look for a more reputable source?
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Squirt said:
Where on earth do you go to dig up this stuff? You know, I just can't help but wonder why you would go to anti-Mormon websites if you want accurate information about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Would you go to the National Enquirer to get the latest world news, or would you look for a more reputable source?
I have looked, and I can't find this quote in context anywhere on the web. Does anyone know where I can find it?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
SoyLeche said:
I have looked, and I can't find this quote in context anywhere on the web. Does anyone know where I can find it?
You mean this?

http://www.carm.org/lds/quotes_js.htm

"Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven? (The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264. See reprint in Mormonism -- Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, page 4.)"
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Or do you mean this?

http://www.carm.org/lds/lds-shields1.htm

"ORIGINAL
Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven? (The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264. See reprint in Mormonism -- Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, page 4.)"
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Plagarism is an ugly sin and worthy of banishment IMHO.

I'm very sorry ya'll. Usually I can sniff this stuff out a mile away. I was actually thinking that our friend was actually reading stuff. :biglaugh:
 

SoyLeche

meh...
angellous_evangellous said:
Or do you mean this?

http://www.carm.org/lds/lds-shields1.htm

"ORIGINAL
Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven? (The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264. See reprint in Mormonism -- Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, page 4.)"
Yeah -- The Young Woman's Journal isn't online, and I don't have access to a library that may have it here in Virginia. I just want to know what the context of the quote was. I can only find it by itself.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
SoyLeche said:
Yeah -- The Young Woman's Journal isn't online, and I don't have access to a library that may have it here in Virginia. I just want to know what the context of the quote was. I can only find it by itself.
It can easily be fabricated and circulated as anti-Mormon propaganda. I run into this kinda filth on a daily basis.:banghead3
 

SoyLeche

meh...
angellous_evangellous said:
It can easily be fabricated and circulated as anti-Mormon propaganda. I run into this kinda filth on a daily basis.:banghead3
The thing is, Brigham Young very well may have said this. It's hard to know what he meant by it out of context though. He may have been talking in some elaborate metaphore, or he may have actually believed it. I don't know.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
SoyLeche said:
The thing is, Brigham Young very well may have said this. It's hard to know what he meant by it out of context though. He may have been talking in some elaborate metaphore, or he may have actually believed it. I don't know.
Well you said it, not me. As far as I'm concerned, it's a mute point because the person who brought it up pulled off of a hostile site and touted it like it was his knowledge. He's discredited and has lost the debate.

The question now should be framed, "I saw this crazy post on a Christian Apologetics site that is hostile to Mormonism. I don't understand this, so could you please tell me if Mormons really believe it?"
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
SoyMilk,

You may be able to email the author mentioned in the OP, Jerald Tanner from his website - http://www.utlm.org/navemail.htm. If he actually read the material, he may be able to shoot you a fax, copy, or email it to you. I can do it for you if you don't want to coorespond with him.
 

Squirt

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Plagarism is an ugly sin and worthy of banishment IMHO.

I'm very sorry ya'll. Usually I can sniff this stuff out a mile away. I was actually thinking that our friend was actually reading stuff. :biglaugh:
When in doubt, always think CARM. :biglaugh:

None of these folks actually read anything from the original sources. The Journal of Discourses, for instance is a collection of 26 volumes. Whenever I see a quote from one of these books, I just laugh. I don't know a single solitary Mormon who has read all of them. It's not hard to recognize a quote from volume 19 as a cut and paste job. Quotes from "The Seer" are even a bigger joke. That was a 19th-century periodical, for crying out loud. How many RFers have access to it? If people want to know what we believe, they ought to pick up a copy of the Discourses of Gordon B. Hinckley. That's only two volumes and is a heck of a lot better guide to LDS doctrine than something that was written 150 years ago by an author long since dead.
 

Endless

Active Member
Well you said it, not me. As far as I'm concerned, it's a mute point because the person who brought it up pulled off of a hostile site and touted it like it was his knowledge. He's discredited and has lost the debate.
Not so - i quoted it and gave the source of the information. Whether you think i pulled it off a 'hostile site' is your own opinion, AE, just because you found it on a 'hostile site' does not mean i got it from that site... - it is my knowledge now that i have read it, if you think i made it up then so be it, how else do you think we obtain knowledge.

Plagarism is an ugly sin and worthy of banishment IMHO.

I'm very sorry ya'll. Usually I can sniff this stuff out a mile away. I was actually thinking that our friend was actually reading stuff.
I haven't plagarised - i quoted and gave the source of the information. I am not required to quote every single website on which the quote appears :eek: And i was reading stuff.

t can easily be fabricated and circulated as anti-Mormon propaganda.
Which makes posting it up to ask Mormans about it actually a very good idea - they are more likely to know whether it is actually written or whether it is not.

Like Aqualung said:

That's why all LDS members are encouraged to pray about and study everything they are ever told.
You should not be so quick to judge AE. In anycase, why should we not benefit from the research that those who have actually read the books have done. Instead of reinventing the wheel? When you read stuff on the internet about science do you go to the source of the information which are scientific papers and read them, what about textbooks - do you go to the source and read all the research? Shame on you AE, i thought you were actually reading stuff.

What you said is rediculous in the extreme if you trace back the implications of what you said.
 

Endless

Active Member
How many RFers have access to it? If people want to know what we believe, they ought to pick up a copy of the Discourses of Gordon B. Hinckley. That's only two volumes and is a heck of a lot better guide to LDS doctrine than something that was written 150 years ago by an author long since dead.
What in the world is that suppose to mean? Is it a heck of a lot better than the book of Morman then? That was written in 1830 - that's 170 years ago, Brigham Young probably knew Joseph? In any case was he not your prophet or something? I'm pretty sure he was qualified enough to write discourses on a guide to LDS doctrine. Unless the Morman doctrines have changed over the years then it shouldn't matter when something was written, especially by your prophet.
 

Aqualung

Tasty
Endless - I don't think A_E was accusing you of plagarising. I think he was accusing the original site of plagarising, as he could nowhere find the original quote in it's original context.
 

Squirt

Well-Known Member
Endless said:
What in the world is that suppose to mean?
It means exactly what it says, and what it says isn't exactly rocket science.

Is it a heck of a lot better than the book of Morman then?
(First off -- this is a minor point, but would you mind spelling Mormon correctly in the future, just as a courtesy?)

No, the Discources of Gordon B. Hinckley would not be superior to what you'll find in the Book of Mormon or any of our other "Standard Works." They will, however, give you a far better understanding of LDS doctrine than some of the stuff you're reading. So far, your approach has been to try to tell us what we believe. We don't need you to do that, believe me. We know what we believe; we know what our official doctrines are, and we know what we hear taught in church week after week, month after month. You are telling us that our church teaches things we don't teach at all. And when we tell you that our church doesn't teach these things, it appears to be going in one ear and out the other.

That was written in 1830 - that's 170 years ago, Brigham Young probably knew Joseph? In any case was he not your prophet or something? I'm pretty sure he was qualified enough to write discourses on a guide to LDS doctrine. Unless the Morman doctrines have changed over the years then it shouldn't matter when something was written, especially by your prophet.
The Book of Mormon was translated in 1830; it wasn't written in 1830. Stick to what it says and ask us questions if you feel that something it says contradicts what you believe. We believe it is the word of God and will not deny anything it says.

Brigham Young did know Joseph Smith and he was, in fact, the second Prophet of the Church. That does not make every word he ever spoke "doctrine." He was a human being like you or me. He was not infallible nor did he claim to be. When speaking on behalf of God, his words have been included in the Doctrine and Covenants and are considered doctrinally binding. He also had opinions of his own which, over the nearly 30 years during which he led the Church, were recorded by various individuals. Some of these opinions were undoubtedly correct. In other cases, they were not. We can safely assume that if God had wanted a particular teaching to be accepted as LDS doctrine, we would still be teaching it today and we would be able to cite chapter and verse from the book containing the teaching.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
It is ludicrous to believe that Joseph Smith ever believed anyone ever lived on the moon, let alone Quakers. This is crazy fabricated stuff. Only the mentally unstable would ever buy into this stuff.
 
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