1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Knowing and Believing

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    11,930
    Ratings:
    +2,289
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    so the people who crucified the protagonist jesus, do you suppose they believed what they were doing was right?


    so jesus asked god to forgive them because they didn't know what they were doing.


    so is it better to believe and not know?

    or

    is it better to question and know having believed?
     
  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    32,240
    Ratings:
    +11,003
    Religion:
    Process of Spiritual Healing
    I'd say it's better to know. Belief leaves you open to challenge because you accept something is true but because you don't know, someone can challenge your foundation that rocks your acceptance.

    So, for example, if you had believed you can fly for years and someone points out the function of gravity, you have some cognitive dissonance in what's true what you always believed. So, saying "I believe" is like walking on egg shells and get's people wound up regardless how strong their belief is.

    Knowledge, on the other hand, doesn't seem to hit us that personal. For example, we know we can't fly because of gravity. So if someone challenged us to that knowledge that we can fly, we can a. show them b. clarify it c. show them objective proof d. tell them to jump. We'd have less doubt if any and its easier to stand our grounds than it would if we just accept something is true but when asked to prove it or explain it, they pull back (only spiritual people know; if you had faith; if you had practice; and so forth).

    Presumably, people who saw jesus crucified well had knowledge of it. No one could challenge it because they were witnessed to it. Since christian had not witness jesus' crucifixion, they feel they have belief and faith. Though we can also say we have knowledge because of our experiences. But that's a touch and go because unlike mathematics we can disprove others interpretation of experiences and that would make the cards fall on everything else; this has more internal consequences, though.
     
  3. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,686
    Ratings:
    +6,108
    Religion:
    spiritual anti-theist : )
    Predictable and repeatable evidence can turn believing into knowing (as best as we can ever "know" anything).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    56,954
    Ratings:
    +26,067
    Religion:
    Love
    Yes. People are very excellently good at justifying as right whatever they want to do.

    Knowledge is better than belief.

    Yes as my current signature points to:
    "You don't learn by having faith. You learn by questioning, by challenging, by re-examining everything you've ever believed.
    And yet, all this is a matter of faith — the faith that there is a truth to be found.
    It is another paradox: To truly question, you must truly have faith."

    Rabbi Tzvi Freeman
     
  5. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    31,500
    Ratings:
    +26,287
    Religion:
    None
    I am pretty sure they thought what they did was right according to Roman law.


    I would rephrase that to "is it better to question and learn so you know?"
     
  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,537
    Ratings:
    +8,025
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    How many times must we sacrifice a God before we learn it is the wrong (or right) thing to do? o_O
     
  7. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    3,007
    Ratings:
    +583
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    But is there any knowledge that is not actually just a belief? It appears to me that all knowledge is knowledge to a person only when he believes it.
     
Loading...