Khalifa of Islam Coming to the USA Soon

[KT Shamim]

Assalamualaikum people.

He discussed with Peter Mansbridge the consequences of a then-possible Trump presidency.

Now that Trump's the President, he is visiting the USA at an interesting time. Very exciting for us Ahmadis. And extremely important.

US-bound Ahmadi leader models a different kind of Islamic caliphate - Religion News Service

Thoughts?

 

[Jumi]

I like that the Ahmadis consistently show a positive Islam. Good luck!

 

[Cooky]

What is this Ahmadis Islam?

 

[Jumi]

What is this Ahmadis Islam?

It's a movement in Islam since 19th century. Very peaceful, do charitable works and sometimes heavily persecuted for it. Many Muslim posters here on RF are Ahmadi.

 

[icehorse]

Pretty video, thanks.

I also would like to understand what the speaker means when he says "the message of true Islam"?

There were a few moments in the video that I found quite concerning. My sense is that "his" Muslims will assimilate as long as it suits them. But that they have every intention of bringing theocracy to the world as much as they can.

 

[KT Shamim]

Pretty video, thanks.

I also would like to understand what the speaker means when he says "the message of true Islam"?

There were a few moments in the video that I found quite concerning. My sense is that "his" Muslims will assimilate as long as it suits them. But that they have every intention of bringing theocracy to the world as much as they can.

Would it be possible to specify what time-stamp in the video you are referring to?

 

[KT Shamim]

What is this Ahmadis Islam?

Everyone's waiting for a reformer. Budhists awaiting Maitrabuddha, Hindus awaiting 10th incarnation (Kalki Avatar), Muslims awaiting the Messiah and Mahdi and Christians awaiting the Messiah.

We believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (peace be upon him) is that awaited Messiah as prophesied who was commissioned as a Prophet within Islam to bring Islam back to its origin and bring the world towards the true Islam via winning the hearts of people.

We, the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (peace be upon him) are Muslims first and foremost and within Islam we identify ourselves as Ahmadi Muslims to differentiate from other sects.

We believe in Love for All; Hatred for None. We believe the it is the Jihad of the pen that is required today because it is the pen with which Islam is attacked. We believe the Jihad of the sword only applied if Islam was being attacked by the sword and that is not the case today. Many Muslims are being attacked but not for their faith and this differentiation is key.

For peace, Muslims must take ownership of their follies while the security council countries must take ownership of and stop sales of weapons to both sides of warring parties. We believe Justice must be given precedence over selfish and national interests and that is the way to peace.

And finally, we believe true peace will only ultimately be established once the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community takes over the hearts of the majority of the world. 100 years ago Mirza Ghulam Ahmad prophesied that 300 years shall not pass that this would happen. Our growth (Google: fastest growing sect) clearly indicates that 200 years shall not pass that this would, indeed happen, as God has willed.

 

[icehorse]

Would it be possible to specify what time-stamp in the video you are referring to?

First off, there were parts of the video that seemed good to me. Here are some approximate times, and my thoughts:

10:00 - we should monitor Imams and mosques - that's good!
11:00 - Muslims should not be asked to break their customs - that's potentially worrying.
13:00 - Women in a separate hall - very worrying, the chance of coercion is high!
16:30 - Government should net interfere in religion. Potentially very troubling.
20:00 - He talks about the message of "true Islam" - what is that ???

 

[icehorse]

And finally, we believe true peace will only ultimately be established once the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community takes over the hearts of the majority of the world. 100 years ago Mirza Ghulam Ahmad prophesied that 300 years shall not pass that this would happen. Our growth (Google: fastest growing sect) clearly indicates that 200 years shall not pass that this would, indeed happen, as God has willed.

You will never take over my heart with ideas like this. You'll probably never take over my heart regardless, but certainly as long as your goal is to rule the world, you will cause conflict and you will fail.

Islam has never demonstrated itself to be a way to run a successful society. Your scripture is divisive and violent in many ways. If you really want to "reform" you must address those concerns honestly.

 

[Cooky]

Everyone's waiting for a reformer. Budhists awaiting Maitrabuddha, Hindus awaiting 10th incarnation (Kalki Avatar), Muslims awaiting the Messiah and Mahdi and Christians awaiting the Messiah.

We believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (peace be upon him) is that awaited Messiah as prophesied who was commissioned as a Prophet within Islam to bring Islam back to its origin and bring the world towards the true Islam via winning the hearts of people.

We, the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (peace be upon him) are Muslims first and foremost and within Islam we identify ourselves as Ahmadi Muslims to differentiate from other sects.

We believe in Love for All; Hatred for None. We believe the it is the Jihad of the pen that is required today because it is the pen with which Islam is attacked. We believe the Jihad of the sword only applied if Islam was being attacked by the sword and that is not the case today. Many Muslims are being attacked but not for their faith and this differentiation is key.

For peace, Muslims must take ownership of their follies while the security council countries must take ownership of and stop sales of weapons to both sides of warring parties. We believe Justice must be given precedence over selfish and national interests and that is the way to peace.

And finally, we believe true peace will only ultimately be established once the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community takes over the hearts of the majority of the world. 100 years ago Mirza Ghulam Ahmad prophesied that 300 years shall not pass that this would happen. Our growth (Google: fastest growing sect) clearly indicates that 200 years shall not pass that this would, indeed happen, as God has willed.

As someone who has studied religion for a decade, though I'm no theologian, I have always thought a more contemplative form of Islam would bear better fruit, and be more in line with a loving God, who was kind enough to create mankind and all the beauties of life.

I guess I have new material to study. Thanks for informing me about Ahmadiyya Islam.

 

[KT Shamim]

First off, there were parts of the video that seemed good to me. Here are some approximate times, and my thoughts:

Thank you for taking out the time for such a detailed response. And sorry for my delay in this response.

10:00 - we should monitor Imams and mosques - that's good!

Yes it is crucial.

11:00 - Muslims should not be asked to break their customs - that's potentially worrying.

So a Muslim who 10:45"... you have to be law-abiding; you have to work for the betterment of your nation and country ..." should not be given freedom to practice his/her religion any way he/she wants?

13:00 - Women in a separate hall - very worrying, the chance of coercion is high!

Women dealing only with women without any male interference increases the chance of coercion?
We should fix the mental state of men. But until that's guaranteed we have to prioritize safety. Even western nations are now considering segregation as the only solution. Seed grows best far away from the tree. Until men fix their mental issues.
Sweden holds world's first major 'women only' music festival

16:30 - Government should net interfere in religion. Potentially very troubling.

To repeat, a Muslim who 10:45"... you have to be law-abiding; you have to work for the betterment of your nation and country ..." should not be given freedom to practice his/her religion any way he/she wants? Why government should interfere in religion of a "law-abiding", "work for the betterment of your nation" person?

Essentially he's simultaneously asking mosques to be monitored and then saying that if law-abiding clause is fulfilled then there should be no interference of government in religion. Isn't that extremely reasonable?

20:00 - He talks about the message of "true Islam" - what is that ???

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Official Website: www.alislam.org
We are Muslims who believe in the Messiah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian as a Prophet within Islam to bring Muslims back to the origin. Largest organized body of Muslims (10s of millions of followers in 200+ countries) serving under 1 leader. 100+ year-old Khilafat (caliphate).
www.muslimsforlife.org/ -
To honor the victims of 9/11 and emphasize Islam’s essential teaching regarding the sanctity of life, the Ahmadiyya Muslims Community, USA began organizing blood drives all across the nation in 2011. The “Muslims for Life” Campaign has now become a Nationwide Annual Event:
2011 - 168 cities, 269 blood drives; 11,803 pints of blood collected.
2012 - 376 one-day blood drives; 11,170 pints.
2013 - 261 Blood Drives held by 66 local branches; 10,377 pints.
www.muslimsforpeace.org/ - promoting Islamic value of peace and loyalty to ones nation via Interfaith Events, Mosque Open House, Muhammad ﷺ: Messenger of Peace Conference, Muslims For Loyalty Campaign, Muslims For Peace Campaign, Promised Messiah Day
www.humanityfirst.org/ - Drawing strength from global resources, they aim to relieve suffering caused by natural disaster and human conflict, promote peace and understanding, and strengthen people’s capacity to help themselves. #Water4Life #GiftofSight #DisasterRelief #Education

 

[icehorse]

So a Muslim who 10:45"... you have to be law-abiding; you have to work for the betterment of your nation and country ..." should not be given freedom to practice his/her religion any way he/she wants?

Good discussion, no worries on the delay

So what happens when the religion is in conflict with the laws of the host nation? It seems to me that there are several well known conflicts and that those should be addressed explicitly, not only generally and abstractly. For example...

Women dealing only with women without any male interference increases the chance of coercion?
We should fix the mental state of men. But until that's guaranteed we have to prioritize safety. Even western nations are now considering segregation as the only solution. Seed grows best far away from the tree. Until men fix their mental issues.

All throughout the west, "women's only" gatherings are held. That's great. But these gatherings are organized by women and are entirely voluntary. This is quite different than men declaring that religious gatherings must be segregated. And while I'm not a lawyer, I would guess that such a practice could be seen as illegal.

As for men having universal mental issues, can you explain that?

To repeat, a Muslim who 10:45"... you have to be law-abiding; you have to work for the betterment of your nation and country ..." should not be given freedom to practice his/her religion any way he/she wants? Why government should interfere in religion of a "law-abiding", "work for the betterment of your nation" person?

This is potentially a more subtle point. There are any number of behaviors that are legal, but are not in keeping with the culture of the host country. Host countries have NO OBLIGATION to accept immigrants. Traditionally, host countries have accepted immigrants to help the host country develop and succeed. Now the most parsimonious reading of Islamic scripture is that it is fundamentally opposed to western society in many ways. So while these differences might not be illegal, they are problematical.

To me the answer to this issue is for Muslims to be proactive in admitting these differences, and committing explicitly to abandoning those beliefs and practices that are in opposition to the culture and values of the host country.

The speaker in the video was not explicit about these differences. If you can link to other sources that specifically address these differences, it would be very helpful.

thanks.

 

[KT Shamim]

Good discussion, no worries on the delay

So what happens when the religion is in conflict with the laws of the host nation? It seems to me that there are several well known conflicts and that those should be addressed explicitly, not only generally and abstractly. For example...

No true religion would ever conflict with reasonable laws of the land. The prime example of this is set by the practice of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and the global laws under which they operate as peaceful law-abiding citizens. But they also face an exception to this rule ...

i.e. in Pakistan Ahmadis are legally prohibited from observing their 5 daily prayers for example. And Ahmadis disobey that legal clause and continue to pray 5 times a day. So in such matters (i.e. personal matters where government should not interfere with religion) Ahmadis do not obey the law and even accept going to prison for the same. Still Ahmadis do not come out on the streets and protest, etc. and we pay our taxes in Pakistan and obey the law in all other matters and work for the betterment of our country.

Scarf bans in the west also come under religious interference of government but, I must admit that full face veils are a security threat and may not fall in the same purview.

You said he was not specific but I would disagree because he specifically mentioned the issue of Hijab (i.e segregation). I may recommend a book however that covers these issues in more detail?

Islam's Response to Contemporary Issues

All throughout the west, "women's only" gatherings are held. That's great. But these gatherings are organized by women and are entirely voluntary. This is quite different than men declaring that religious gatherings must be segregated. And while I'm not a lawyer, I would guess that such a practice could be seen as illegal.

Specifically at 13:52 he emphasizes that women accept this voluntarily and that he asks journalists to specifically go and ask the women about the same. I would suggest you read this article as an example of the same. In fact at our Jalsa Salanas (Annual Conventions) around the globe you can see voluntarily accepted segregation in action. You are most welcome to visit and witness theory in practice.

As for men having universal mental issues, can you explain that?

Firstly I don't remember saying the disease is universal. It is curable. But unfortunately most men remain uncured. And until majority of men aren't cured we can't continue putting women at risk. However, again I emphasize that this logic has to be understood voluntarily and that there is no compulsion in religion.

This is potentially a more subtle point. There are any number of behaviors that are legal, but are not in keeping with the culture of the host country. Host countries have NO OBLIGATION to accept immigrants. Traditionally, host countries have accepted immigrants to help the host country develop and succeed. Now the most parsimonious reading of Islamic scripture is that it is fundamentally opposed to western society in many ways. So while these differences might not be illegal, they are problematical.

To me the answer to this issue is for Muslims to be proactive in admitting these differences, and committing explicitly to abandoning those beliefs and practices that are in opposition to the culture and values of the host country.

The speaker in the video was not explicit about these differences. If you can link to other sources that specifically address these differences, it would be very helpful.

thanks.

I believe immigrants should accept positive features and disassociate from negative ones. And you are right that the host country is generous to allow immigrants to settle and even naturalize.