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John 14:7, Jesus associates Himself with the Pater, 'father', and says He's the manifestation
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
What does this have to do with what I wrote, anyway.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Verse that prove that Jesus Christ isn't God:
John 8:40 New King James Version (NKJV)
But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.
do you want a much more clearer English translation?
John 8:40 Expanded Bible (EXB)
I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you are trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that.
Isn't that clear enough?
This verses should end any speculation and any wrong notion about who the Lord Jesus Christ is.
He is a man - who what?
He is a man who told the truth - from whom?
From himself?
No.
He is a man who has told the truth which he heard from God.
When did people first decided that the Lord Jesus Christ is the second person of a non existent trinitarian god?
325 AD. More than two centuries after the last apostle [John] died.
Where did they make such decision?
Nicaea - which is no part of the present day Turkey
Who initiated such decision?
The pagan emperor - Constantine
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
A possessed shaman? Whos words are they, the entity, or Jesus's ? Jesus talking in His own words? How is that yoheshua? Thats the words of the entity. Your idea just raises more questions than answers.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Who said it?
The Lord Jesus Christ himself.
John 8:39-45 New King James Version (NKJV)
They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
It could have been enough - but nah....
Why don't people believe this?
According to the Lord Jesus Christ it is because people are children of the devil.
They rather believe an invented doctrine, a lie instead of what the Lord Jesus said.
Jesus said, they are incapable of understanding what he said
"I am a MAN who told you the truth which I heard from God"
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Nope...you didn't explain who the devil, is, in those verses. More metaphor?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
John 8:44
'Your father the devil'
Who is this referring to?
'Your father the devil'
Who is this referring to?
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MJFlores
Well-Known Member
The devil is Satan and according to the Lord Jesus, the children of the devil could not not understand him because they are not children of God. It is very clear in any translation, unless..... oh my Lordi!
Johannes 8:40-45 BasisBijbel (BB)
Maar nu proberen jullie Mij te doden, terwijl Ik jullie toch de waarheid zeg die Ik van God heb gehoord. Zoiets deed Abraham niet. Jullie doen dezelfde dingen als jullie vader." Ze zeiden tegen Hem: "We weten wie onze Vader is. Dat is God." Jezus zei tegen hen: "Als God echt jullie Vader was, zouden jullie van Mij houden. Want Ik ben bij God vandaan gekomen. Ik ben niet gekomen om te doen wat Ik zelf wil, maar God heeft Mij gestuurd. Waarom begrijpen jullie niet wat Ik zeg? Omdat jullie het niet kúnnen begrijpen. De duivel is jullie vader en jullie doen dezelfde dingen als jullie vader. Hij is altijd een moordenaar geweest. Hij kan niets goeds doen, want er is helemaal geen waarheid in hem. Hij is een leugenaar en kan niets anders dan liegen. Hij is de bron van alle leugens. Maar omdat Ik jullie de waarheid zeg, geloven jullie Mij niet.
Not a problem:
PAUL
1 Corinthians 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth – as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords” 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Philippians 2:8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
MARKPhilippians 2:8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;
MATTHEWMatthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”
LUKELuke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”
JOHNJohn 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”
John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”
John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”
John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”
John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”
John 14:28 You heard me say to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.
John 16:23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask anything of the Father, he will give it to you in my name.
John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”
John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
MOREJohn 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”
John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”
John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”
John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”
John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”
John 14:28 You heard me say to you, 'I go away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.
John 16:23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask anything of the Father, he will give it to you in my name.
John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”
John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 John 4:12 No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
1 John 4:12 No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
'No one has known the father', either non Biblical, or not talking about the Biblical G- d. So, now explain which ' g- d' is being talked about, since that isn't the Biblical G- d.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Who is the " previously unknown G- d', in the book of John?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Who is satan? Is this metaphor, or literal?
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
The son is not the father who is not the spirit
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Yet is G- d, contradicting your argument that Jesus isn't G- d. Unless that isn't your argument.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Metaphor or Literal - what do you think?
Isaiah 14:12-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Ezekiel 28:14-16 New King James Version (NKJV)
“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
The only 'previously unknown' God in the new testament, is Jesus, the manifestation of God.
Who is this addressed to?
Who is this addressed to?
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Assuming Jesus is the manifestation of God,
which is your line of thought
Jesus is not God but a manifestation only
I have a son
He is not me but my son
He is my likeness
but he is never me
So he can't drive my car
He can't teach in my class
He isn't me
He is just my manifestation and my likeness
Urban Dictionary: Capish