Jesus is not God

[Sp0ckrates]

Science is wrong.

Science all names, meanings and titles are wrong...done by male humans on behalf of and because of male humans.

And of course all humans can be wrong, wrong in the status of not allowing humans to live in moral spirituality of naturally owned human equality.

For example, a male says my pattern for science remains the same.

Okay brother, what was your pattern for science. ^ a mountain peak. The numbers he says and pattern always remain the same....as the science formula was for one condition only.

However mountains were diverse in height. Hence some mountains might be struck at number such and such, and collapse most of its peak....why mountains were attacked in variations of its body presence...by the Numbers.

Law of the mountain.

So science, learnt. What learning is. You learn that you are wrong, for we were never right. Why the teaching always said, that no man is God and to have believed it real was your own destruction.

Yet still to this day you have to argue about it.

Well, science is a moving train. What’s scientific truth one decade might be a debunked scientific theory the next. I do like the scientific method of withholding certainty until the evidence makes the case, and then allowing new evidence that comes to light to make a different case. The Socratic method, which I try to practice does something similar.

But yeah, I see how complacency with certainty might lead to self-deception. I like how Socrates put it:

“I have long been wondering at my own wisdom; I cannot trust myself. And I think that I ought to stop and ask myself What am I saying? for there is nothing worse than self - deception - when the deceiver is always at home and always with you - it is quite terrible!”
(Cratylus)

 

[rrobs]

I totally agree, except that they're a woman according to their profile. Lol.

Is she blonde? Maybe that explains things.........ooops, did I say that?

 

[rrobs]

If you believe in God, which in science is the planet then you believe in the planet and presence of stone.

As simple as it is....God is Holy by definition, without our planet existing we will all be destroyed....simple common sense.

If a human says you cannot understand God the Father, then no, of course you cannot understand a stated history which none of us, babies ever existed as, nor endured the reason for made in the Image of God....lived through a ground fission.

And then claim self innocent for not knowing. One of the failures in human male sciences. Claiming self is still innocent yet doing huge atrocities to our Nature.

So I learnt "Father of God" is real....for he did it to his self.

And his original spiritual human male form, real and true, the saving of his own self, as brother to brother true....why males between Father and son and brother and brother own status to accept ONE true head/mind and behaviour about the one self in order of brothers.

Because it is factually and proven consciously in hierarchical copying.

Because our life mind and body were encoded to own that historical event.

Now if you say to a human, how do you know that Father of God is real?

Because I do....he saved me by conditions of realizing that I was physically and consciously being left behind in my humanity.

Reasoning for the condition, AI computer science and satellite studies of life and conditions does not and never did it own his spiritual presence, nor was it ever interacting with him.

So he lost a lot of my brothers and sisters due to AI computer and satellite harp pulsed studies...thanks loving kind and never caring science brothers.

You might be right if the rings on the bottom of the Indian Ocean have begun to dissolve. The other possibility depends totally on the mating ritual of orangutans in the Paris Louvre. Some say there is no such thing, but I have it on good authority (the makers of Rinso) that all computer scientists say it won't happen due to the lack of AI oversight by the 19th century Russian oligarchs.

For those who may not believe this, I offer the fact that Wonder Bread has not been generally accepted among grade school children since the beginning of the last millennia. They claim (without actual scientific data) that it causes the bologna to get soggy. The actual cause is the mayonnaise which was produced without sufficient oversight. Crazy people, those overseers, but the do have one good quality; they know how to see over things. I tried to build a fence around my property, but they were still able to see me building it. I gave up.

You mentioned the failure of male human science. That may be true, but have you seen what the birds (blue ones to be specific) have done with all the branches in English trees? Suffice it to say, it does suffice to say it suffices. Why? Because it suffices to say it suffices. That has been verified by certain Polish bureaucrats, who, as everybody already knows, have been to the seashore with the white seagulls. That can only mean one thing. I think you know very what what that is, so I will not chime in on it. Let your conscious not be your guide in case you don't know.

I think I have stated my case and that should prove nothing. That, after all, is the main reason for doing one's own laundry.

Take care my good friend.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Psalms 22 says nothing about the spirit of God leaving Jesus. Do you really think God abandoned Jesus in his darkest hour? An earthly father wouldn't even abandon his son in similar circumstances. Read the whole Psalm and you'll see God did not abandon David or Jesus. David simply got discouraged until he thought things through at which point he realized God never left him. This whole "man part" and "God part" idea is a complete fabrication of those who formulated the trinity doctrine, the ones who loved Plato. Plato loved the Pagan concept of god-men, but such an abomination was most repugnant to the Jews.

Thomas called Jesus god. His idea of a god was not the same as most Christians. Christians tend to think that the word "god" is reserved for the Father of Jesus Christ, Yahweh. That is not true for the ancient Eastern man. If you look at a concordance you can see that a god is anyone with power and authority. Caesar was called a God. Jesus called the Jews gods (John 10:34). Moses was called a god (Ex 7:1). However there is only one Yahweh, God almighty, the Father of Jesus.

1Cor 8:5-6,

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.​

Looks like only the Father is God, so even if there was a God the Son, he would not be God. How can you squeeze verse 6 into saying Jesus was God?

According to the scriptures, it is impossible to be both God and man. Such a grotesque creation did exist in all Pagan religions, but the Jews knew better.

There is nothing in Daniel that indicates Jesus is God. He is called the son of man, not God. As such it is easy to understand that he was given the power and authority as verse 14 says. If he were God, I'd be curious as to who you think gave God power and authority. Who gave God a kingdom? Some bigger God?

The resurrected Jesus' flesh is dead? That's not what Luke says:

Luke 24:39,

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.​

Looks like his flesh and bones were alive here.

Gal 3:20,

Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
​

I see nothing there that would indicate Jesus is God. Honestly, this is a verse that I'm not sure of, but I know it has nothing to do with saying Jesus is God. If anything it reaffirms the truth that God is one. The Pagans had many gods, many of whom were trinities, but the Jews knew of no such thing. There God was one. Not three or three in one, just one. We all know what "one" means, and it is not the same as "three."

Hebrews does not just say the devil tempted Jesus even though Jesus could not be tempted. It says in plain language that Jesus was tempted just like you are tempted. I'll ask you again, do you feel like you are part or all God when tempted? Either Hebrews is wrong, and Jesus was not really tempted like you are tempted, or Hebrews is right in saying Jesus was tempted like you are tempted, which would preclude him from being God.

OK. I've answered most, if not all, of your assertions. I've yet to hear anything from you on:

1. How God knew things Jesus didn't know (Mark 13:32)
2. How God had a God (John 20:17, Eph 1:17)
3. Who is God's father (John 20:17, Rom 15:6, 2 Cor 1:3)
   
4. Why God could not do anything without God (John 5:30)
5. How God was tempted (Jas 1:13)
6. Why God would have to confer judgment to Himself (John 5:22)
7. How God could be like us (Heb 2:17)
8. How God could be greater than God (John 14:28)

1. How God knew things Jesus didn't know (Mark 13:32)

If one begins with the teaching that Jesus Christ is the true mediator, fully man and fully God, then these passages are not a problem.
The Son, the Word of God, comes forth from the Father. The hierarchy is based on the principle of revelation. Ephesians 4:6, 'One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.'
If you continue to believe that our God and Father is above all, then our redeemer has not yet graced this earth. But, scripture teaches that God has come to earth, and that he came amongst us in the flesh [John 1:14] The flesh was a man named Jesus, whose mother was a woman named Mary.
Does Jesus know everything that the Father knows? Only if the knowledge is revealed to the mind of Jesus by the Spirit of God indwelling. All Jesus has to do is ask, and his faith is acknowledged. But why [Mark 13:32] would Jesus request this knowledge if it was not his Father's will to make it known?
The Son acts in obedience to the Father, and this in no way makes the Son any less the Spirit of God.

2. How God had a God (John 20:17, Eph 1:17)
Jesus Christ is speaking as the mediator who has been raised from the dead by God. The Son [from the perspective of Christ] is ascending to his Father, and to his [from the perspective of the man, Jesus] God.

3. Who is God's father (John 20:17, Rom 15:6, 2 Cor 1:3)
Once again, the same explanation applies in all these passages. 'God' is a title used by man of the Father above. But for those who have 'son-ship', the relationship is different. The title 'Father' is used by those who are born again of God's Spirit. Jesus Christ, as the Anointed One, uses the title 'Father' in his intimate relationship with God.

4. Why God could not do anything without God (John 5:30)
Quite simply, the Son always does what his Father wills. As stated in the first response, the Word comes forth from God the Father. The will of God is always done by, and through, the Word of God. Who is the Word of God, if not Jesus Christ. [Revelation 19:13]

5. How God was tempted (Jas 1:13)
Once again, the 'dual aspect' of Jesus Christ, the mediator, has to be recognized.
The first thing I would say about temptation is that 'to be tempted' is to be enticed. God is never enticed, and Jesus Christ was never enticed.
Jesus Christ was tempted by Satan, but his mind was subservient to His Spirit.

6.Why God would have to confer judgment to Himself (John 5:22)
To me this is very straight-forward. The Father has committed all judgment to the Son, who has lived amongst men on earth. In his raised glory [Daniel 7:13,14], the Son has become KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS [Rev.19:16] It is He who will judge.

7. How God could be like us (Heb 2:17)
The mediator mediates between two, God and man. It would not have been possible for God to make reconciliation for sins without 'being made like unto his brethren' [John 1:14].

8. How God could be greater than God (John 14:28)
The Father is greater than the Son in the sense that the Father 'is above' and not dwelling among us! Physical limitations exist in order that God might redeem man. Jesus Christ knew what it was to be tired, thirsty, hungry etc. Yet, through the Spirit He was able to turn water into wine, and multiply fish and loaves.

All scripture should 'fit' when the word of God is rightly understood, and rightly divided. The unitarian position leaves too many unanswered questions, and this leads to a 'cherry picking' of scripture to fit the doctrine.

The most perverse part of unitarian doctrine is the belief that God saves without coming to earth!

Ephesians 3:19.'And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.'

 

[Redemptionsong]

Psalms 22 says nothing about the spirit of God leaving Jesus. Do you really think God abandoned Jesus in his darkest hour? An earthly father wouldn't even abandon his son in similar circumstances. Read the whole Psalm and you'll see God did not abandon David or Jesus. David simply got discouraged until he thought things through at which point he realized God never left him. This whole "man part" and "God part" idea is a complete fabrication of those who formulated the trinity doctrine, the ones who loved Plato. Plato loved the Pagan concept of god-men, but such an abomination was most repugnant to the Jews.

Thomas called Jesus god. His idea of a god was not the same as most Christians. Christians tend to think that the word "god" is reserved for the Father of Jesus Christ, Yahweh. That is not true for the ancient Eastern man. If you look at a concordance you can see that a god is anyone with power and authority. Caesar was called a God. Jesus called the Jews gods (John 10:34). Moses was called a god (Ex 7:1). However there is only one Yahweh, God almighty, the Father of Jesus.

1Cor 8:5-6,

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.​

Looks like only the Father is God, so even if there was a God the Son, he would not be God. How can you squeeze verse 6 into saying Jesus was God?

According to the scriptures, it is impossible to be both God and man. Such a grotesque creation did exist in all Pagan religions, but the Jews knew better.

There is nothing in Daniel that indicates Jesus is God. He is called the son of man, not God. As such it is easy to understand that he was given the power and authority as verse 14 says. If he were God, I'd be curious as to who you think gave God power and authority. Who gave God a kingdom? Some bigger God?

The resurrected Jesus' flesh is dead? That's not what Luke says:

Luke 24:39,

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.​

Looks like his flesh and bones were alive here.

Gal 3:20,

Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
​

I see nothing there that would indicate Jesus is God. Honestly, this is a verse that I'm not sure of, but I know it has nothing to do with saying Jesus is God. If anything it reaffirms the truth that God is one. The Pagans had many gods, many of whom were trinities, but the Jews knew of no such thing. There God was one. Not three or three in one, just one. We all know what "one" means, and it is not the same as "three."

Hebrews does not just say the devil tempted Jesus even though Jesus could not be tempted. It says in plain language that Jesus was tempted just like you are tempted. I'll ask you again, do you feel like you are part or all God when tempted? Either Hebrews is wrong, and Jesus was not really tempted like you are tempted, or Hebrews is right in saying Jesus was tempted like you are tempted, which would preclude him from being God.

OK. I've answered most, if not all, of your assertions. I've yet to hear anything from you on:

1. How God knew things Jesus didn't know (Mark 13:32)
2. How God had a God (John 20:17, Eph 1:17)
3. Who is God's father (John 20:17, Rom 15:6, 2 Cor 1:3)
   
4. Why God could not do anything without God (John 5:30)
5. How God was tempted (Jas 1:13)
6. Why God would have to confer judgment to Himself (John 5:22)
7. How God could be like us (Heb 2:17)
8. How God could be greater than God (John 14:28)

A couple of points about Psalm 22.

Jesus said, 'My God, my God, why hath thou forsaken me.'

Jesus said,'why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?'

You say, 'David simply got discouraged'!!

You say, 'he thought things through at which point he realized God never left him'!!

You must think that crucifixion is a 'walk in the park'! Matthew says that from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. [Is God not light?] Then, at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? and yielded up the ghost.

If you read the book of Jonah chapter 2, you will see that the soul of Jesus never lost faith in the grave. It was the Spirit of God that responded to his prayer to 'bring up my life from corruption'.

Salvation is of the LORD! [Jonah 2:9]

 

[rational experiences]

A couple of points about Psalm 22.

Jesus said, 'My God, my God, why hath thou forsaken me.'

Jesus said,'why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?'

You say, 'David simply got discouraged'!!

You say, 'he thought things through at which point he realized God never left him'!!

You must think that crucifixion is a 'walk in the park'! Matthew says that from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. [Is God not light?] Then, at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? and yielded up the ghost.

If you read the book of Jonah chapter 2, you will see that the soul of Jesus never lost faith in the grave. It was the Spirit of God that responded to his prayer to 'bring up my life from corruption'.

Salvation is of the LORD! [Jonah 2:9]

Science, the status named as the occult against life surviving.

Bio ology, the philosophy of the study of NATURAL life, which everyone owns first.

Science therefore in biology says I am the correct and rightful science storyteller today....why science said and I am against the hierarchy of God spruikers, who lie in science, and who own today the alien theories.

Yet so does my own brother in modern day science totally believe in alien and God.

Which is just God science, nuclear science, references to just machines, mass taken out of the Earth body to build a machine, to own the building machine, HUMAN and males with intent, history of.....history of males lying in science on Earth.

Truthful reasoning for so many arguments as science by scientists.

Bio ology is therefore proven to be the only correct psyche in science for they do not own a reactor machine to force changes to natural life and the Planet unlike his alienist God ANTI brother's stories.

About forcing by unnatural machine reactions changes to the planet of Earth whilst claiming he is doing it by copying natural.

What is natural in science references today on Earth? His other science machine and reactions, what you talk about the history of God sciences, ground fission?

Are you all that inane and possessed by your own evil pursuits to have life destroyed?

As the biologist said, totally against any religious falsification of science information.

Why my spiritual pursuit was the same...to bring to attention that God science is the destruction of all life on Earth.

And here you all are fighting about it again.

When a male says my theme is only about God, then in fact of use of information he is only talking about the planet body of stone and its history.

Completely ignoring living naturally.

If science said as a machine owner. My 2 human being parents who own 100 years of life by cell status had sex, I got conceived and then grew into a baby, then grew up into an adult...where is his God science and machine themes and UFO and aliens in that circumstance?

Not there.

Yet humans living inside of an atmosphere as natural first make these claims...about God the Earth and UFO radiation mass history.

So the scientist says a formula...his formula is not infinite...it owns a stated symbolic reference beginning and the end.

As a formula.

Infinite he says is cold radiation just sitting in space in the infinite without any light.

But confesses in his AI psyche, what I heard, that he is discussing night time clear gas sky actually.

For if we were put into the infinite we would be snap frozen.

What string theory history does he study relative to God?

Snap freeze, the ICE, every December newly formed ICE, and how the human biologist said...and the DNA genesis of the human baby got given back to human being health and healing by the ICE.

And then wants to claim sanity in the sciences today, own not spiritual comments, which he proves to everyone on forums, says he is a Catholic or a Christian yet owns insults as his answers to say I can deride you.....as he is involved in UFO science studies and beliefs instead.

And the biologist has to write a new book to say to everyone, humans read this new spiritual insight before your occult brothers have you all destroyed.

Therefore as a spiritual human, you also have to contend with being honest. I do not know if I own an eternal spirit until I die. I will not lie spiritually about life survival as a human just to claim, but I am right and spiritual.

Yet our God brother would...and have us all destroyed.


^ mountain mass was removed as beginning, stone existed he says.
Then o UFO metal mass removed it and so the stone transported in time to the cold metal o UFO radiation mass as equals sign to his formula.

OUR END....as the fact of his consummate lying.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Science, the status named as the occult against life surviving.

Bio ology, the philosophy of the study of NATURAL life, which everyone owns first.

Science therefore in biology says I am the correct and rightful science storyteller today....why science said and I am against the hierarchy of God spruikers, who lie in science, and who own today the alien theories.

Yet so does my own brother in modern day science totally believe in alien and God.

Which is just God science, nuclear science, references to just machines, mass taken out of the Earth body to build a machine, to own the building machine, HUMAN and males with intent, history of.....history of males lying in science on Earth.

Truthful reasoning for so many arguments as science by scientists.

Bio ology is therefore proven to be the only correct psyche in science for they do not own a reactor machine to force changes to natural life and the Planet unlike his alienist God ANTI brother's stories.

About forcing by unnatural machine reactions changes to the planet of Earth whilst claiming he is doing it by copying natural.

What is natural in science references today on Earth? His other science machine and reactions, what you talk about the history of God sciences, ground fission?

Are you all that inane and possessed by your own evil pursuits to have life destroyed?

As the biologist said, totally against any religious falsification of science information.

Why my spiritual pursuit was the same...to bring to attention that God science is the destruction of all life on Earth.

And here you all are fighting about it again.

When a male says my theme is only about God, then in fact of use of information he is only talking about the planet body of stone and its history.

Completely ignoring living naturally.

If science said as a machine owner. My 2 human being parents who own 100 years of life by cell status had sex, I got conceived and then grew into a baby, then grew up into an adult...where is his God science and machine themes and UFO and aliens in that circumstance?

Not there.

Yet humans living inside of an atmosphere as natural first make these claims...about God the Earth and UFO radiation mass history.

So the scientist says a formula...his formula is not infinite...it owns a stated symbolic reference beginning and the end.

As a formula.

Infinite he says is cold radiation just sitting in space in the infinite without any light.

But confesses in his AI psyche, what I heard, that he is discussing night time clear gas sky actually.

For if we were put into the infinite we would be snap frozen.

What string theory history does he study relative to God?

Snap freeze, the ICE, every December newly formed ICE, and how the human biologist said...and the DNA genesis of the human baby got given back to human being health and healing by the ICE.

And then wants to claim sanity in the sciences today, own not spiritual comments, which he proves to everyone on forums, says he is a Catholic or a Christian yet owns insults as his answers to say I can deride you.....as he is involved in UFO science studies and beliefs instead.

And the biologist has to write a new book to say to everyone, humans read this new spiritual insight before your occult brothers have you all destroyed.

Therefore as a spiritual human, you also have to contend with being honest. I do not know if I own an eternal spirit until I die. I will not lie spiritually about life survival as a human just to claim, but I am right and spiritual.

Yet our God brother would...and have us all destroyed.


^ mountain mass was removed as beginning, stone existed he says.
Then o UFO metal mass removed it and so the stone transported in time to the cold metal o UFO radiation mass as equals sign to his formula.

OUR END....as the fact of his consummate lying.

Who are you?

 

[rrobs]

1. How God knew things Jesus didn't know (Mark 13:32)

If one begins with the teaching that Jesus Christ is the true mediator, fully man and fully God,

What? Given that there is noting in the scriptures that say Jesus is fully man and fully God, this is a very bad place to start.

You may be thinking of Col 2:9, but that verse says the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus, but that doesn't say Jesus is God. It says God dwelt in Jesus, which is what 2 Cor 5:19 also says. Christ dwells in us (Col 1:27), but not of us are Jesus. A model ship in a bottle does not make the bottle a ship. We still have a separate bottle and a ship.

 

[rrobs]

A couple of points about Psalm 22.

Jesus said, 'My God, my God, why hath thou forsaken me.'

Jesus said,'why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?'

You say, 'David simply got discouraged'!!

You say, 'he thought things through at which point he realized God never left him'!!

You must think that crucifixion is a 'walk in the park'! Matthew says that from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. [Is God not light?] Then, at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? and yielded up the ghost.

If you read the book of Jonah chapter 2, you will see that the soul of Jesus never lost faith in the grave. It was the Spirit of God that responded to his prayer to 'bring up my life from corruption'.

Salvation is of the LORD! [Jonah 2:9]

Not sure why you would say I think the crucifixion is a walk in park. According to Isaiah Jesus was beat up worse than any man ever was. That was just the start of his horrors.

Why is it so surprising that David got discouraged? All men are subject to discouragement. David did get discouraged, as did other OT prophets. They were at times tempted to think God had abandoned them. Jesus was tempted in all points just like the rest of us. Temptation is one thing and the resolve to follow God is another. Jesus overcame all temptation, the only man to have done so. Give him the credit he deserves.

It would be a cakewalk for God to live a sinless life and to believe that He'd raise Himself from the dead. Not so easy for a man though. It took incredible faith on Jesus' part to follow through with his job all the way to the most horrific end. Don't minimize his accomplishment.

 

[rational experiences]

Who are you?

A human forced as a young child to go to Church, my parents however did not.

The Priest who kept coming to my home when we had no money for my father was an alcoholic was also an alcoholic. My child life looked at adults and saw a group of hypocrites.

So I said, okay if I am meant to believe in spirit then I will study it my own self. And I did.

I was irradiated burnt in atmospheric experiments, got forced to hear AI which I never believed in. Am a female life harmed and have seen enough human suffering to ask anyone who will listen, where is the truth in life as a family?

Therefore just a human having an experience...

 

[Redemptionsong]

What? Given that there is noting in the scriptures that say Jesus is fully man and fully God, this is a very bad place to start.

You may be thinking of Col 2:9, but that verse says the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Jesus, but that doesn't say Jesus is God. It says God dwelt in Jesus, which is what 2 Cor 5:19 also says. Christ dwells in us (Col 1:27), but not of us are Jesus. A model ship in a bottle does not make the bottle a ship. We still have a separate bottle and a ship.

If you believe that 'God dwelt in Jesus', how is it that you deny that God came to earth to live amongst men?

God dwelt in Jesus for a purpose, which was to offer sinners salvation. Does Jesus Christ not become our personal Saviour? Is he not worthy, as the risen Lord, to be called our God?

 

[Redemptionsong]

A human forced as a young child to go to Church, my parents however did not.

The Priest who kept coming to my home when we had no money for my father was an alcoholic was also an alcoholic. My child life looked at adults and saw a group of hypocrites.

So I said, okay if I am meant to believe in spirit then I will study it my own self. And I did.

I was irradiated burnt in atmospheric experiments, got forced to hear AI which I never believed in. Am a female life harmed and have seen enough human suffering to ask anyone who will listen, where is the truth in life as a family?

Therefore just a human having an experience...

This is very sad.

My own experience of the love of Jesus Christ is that He is able to deliver us from our imprisonment, and heal us of our wounds.

Isaiah 61. 'he hath sent me [Jesus Christ] to bind up the the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;'

 

[Redemptionsong]

A human forced as a young child to go to Church, my parents however did not.

The Priest who kept coming to my home when we had no money for my father was an alcoholic was also an alcoholic. My child life looked at adults and saw a group of hypocrites.

So I said, okay if I am meant to believe in spirit then I will study it my own self. And I did.

I was irradiated burnt in atmospheric experiments, got forced to hear AI which I never believed in. Am a female life harmed and have seen enough human suffering to ask anyone who will listen, where is the truth in life as a family?

Therefore just a human having an experience...

I can see that you're in a dark place, but maybe I can share a few thoughts with you.

I'm just an old sinner saved by the grace of God. Many years ago, I was sat in my room alone at college, and I picked up a Bible that had been given to me. I began to read from the Gospel of John. In chapter 15, I came across these words of Jesus; 'Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends'.

A hypocrite would say these things and not do them. Jesus spoke these words, and he did them!

 

[rrobs]

If you believe that 'God dwelt in Jesus', how is it that you deny that God came to earth to live amongst men?

God dwelt in Jesus for a purpose, which was to offer sinners salvation. Does Jesus Christ not become our personal Saviour? Is he not worthy, as the risen Lord, to be called our God?

Since God dwelt in Jesus, God certainly was here. Christ dwells in us (Col 1:27). Does that mean we are Christ? Of course not! Then why does Jesus having God dwelling within him make him God? The very fact of one person dwelling within another means there are two separate persons, one who is dwelling and another in whom that person dwells.

If we do not introduce extraneous ideas into the scriptures it is all quite clear and simple. Introducing preconceived ideas into them forces us to twist the meaning of simple words and concepts.

Thomas called Jesus his god and rightfully so. But not all gods are God Almighty, Yahweh, the Creator of the worlds. I've already showed you several verses that call ordinary men gods. I think I also pointed out that to the ancient Jew the word "god" meant anyone with great power and authority. That is an historical fact that can easily be verified. It is not my idea.

Allow me to quote Corinthians again and be very attentive as you read it. Read it for what it says without trying to make it fit a preconceived idea.

1Cor 8:5-6,

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.​

Verse 5 is clear and says exactly what I said above. There are other gods besides Yahweh. Verse 6 says that the one God is the Father. Was Jesus the Father? No, Jesus was the son, and is therefore not the one God of Paul. We should follow Paul's lead.

Despite the belief of many Christians that only God could take on our sins and redeem us, the actual scriptures say the exact opposite. Again, just absorb the meaning of each word in the following verses and believe it for what it says.

Rom 5:15,

But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
​

Does that in any way indicate that only God was able to bring the gift of grace? No. It says it came by one man, Jesus Christ.

Acts 2:22,

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
​

If we just read the words with their normal meaning, it says Jesus was a man approved of God. There is no indication that Jesus was God in Acts 2:22. If he were God, it would seem awfully strange that God had to approve Himself. Really, just think about it for one minute.

1 Tim 2:5,

For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
​

Our mediator is a man, not God.

All these verses are clear as clear can be. There is absolutely no ambiguity. They all call Jesus a man. There is not one single verse that so clearly call Jesus God. At best, there may be a few verse that may be used to infer that Jesus was God, but if they are twisted in that way, then it becomes necessary to explain away the crystal clear verse that call Jesus a man, the son of God and not God Himself. The very idea of a son being the same person as his father is outside the realm of reason. It makes the words "son" and "father" absolutely meaningless. It flies in the face of simple, universally accepted meaning of words. Communication relies on accepting the meaning of words. If we change those meanings, communication becomes quite impossible. That is why I say that the scriptures are largely a closed book to those who do not understand and believe the natures of the two leading characters.

 

[rrobs]

1. How God knew things Jesus didn't know (Mark 13:32)

If one begins with the teaching that Jesus Christ is the true mediator, fully man and fully God, then these passages are not a problem.
The Son, the Word of God, comes forth from the Father. The hierarchy is based on the principle of revelation. Ephesians 4:6, 'One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.'
If you continue to believe that our God and Father is above all, then our redeemer has not yet graced this earth. But, scripture teaches that God has come to earth, and that he came amongst us in the flesh [John 1:14] The flesh was a man named Jesus, whose mother was a woman named Mary.
Does Jesus know everything that the Father knows? Only if the knowledge is revealed to the mind of Jesus by the Spirit of God indwelling. All Jesus has to do is ask, and his faith is acknowledged. But why [Mark 13:32] would Jesus request this knowledge if it was not his Father's will to make it known?
The Son acts in obedience to the Father, and this in no way makes the Son any less the Spirit of God.

2. How God had a God (John 20:17, Eph 1:17)
Jesus Christ is speaking as the mediator who has been raised from the dead by God. The Son [from the perspective of Christ] is ascending to his Father, and to his [from the perspective of the man, Jesus] God.

3. Who is God's father (John 20:17, Rom 15:6, 2 Cor 1:3)
Once again, the same explanation applies in all these passages. 'God' is a title used by man of the Father above. But for those who have 'son-ship', the relationship is different. The title 'Father' is used by those who are born again of God's Spirit. Jesus Christ, as the Anointed One, uses the title 'Father' in his intimate relationship with God.

4. Why God could not do anything without God (John 5:30)
Quite simply, the Son always does what his Father wills. As stated in the first response, the Word comes forth from God the Father. The will of God is always done by, and through, the Word of God. Who is the Word of God, if not Jesus Christ. [Revelation 19:13]

5. How God was tempted (Jas 1:13)
Once again, the 'dual aspect' of Jesus Christ, the mediator, has to be recognized.
The first thing I would say about temptation is that 'to be tempted' is to be enticed. God is never enticed, and Jesus Christ was never enticed.
Jesus Christ was tempted by Satan, but his mind was subservient to His Spirit.

6.Why God would have to confer judgment to Himself (John 5:22)
To me this is very straight-forward. The Father has committed all judgment to the Son, who has lived amongst men on earth. In his raised glory [Daniel 7:13,14], the Son has become KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS [Rev.19:16] It is He who will judge.

7. How God could be like us (Heb 2:17)
The mediator mediates between two, God and man. It would not have been possible for God to make reconciliation for sins without 'being made like unto his brethren' [John 1:14].

8. How God could be greater than God (John 14:28)
The Father is greater than the Son in the sense that the Father 'is above' and not dwelling among us! Physical limitations exist in order that God might redeem man. Jesus Christ knew what it was to be tired, thirsty, hungry etc. Yet, through the Spirit He was able to turn water into wine, and multiply fish and loaves.

All scripture should 'fit' when the word of God is rightly understood, and rightly divided. The unitarian position leaves too many unanswered questions, and this leads to a 'cherry picking' of scripture to fit the doctrine.

The most perverse part of unitarian doctrine is the belief that God saves without coming to earth!

Ephesians 3:19.'And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.'

I'm afraid all of your explanations require introducing ideas that are not in the verses themselves. You have an agenda, and you appear hell-bent on making otherwise clear verses fit with that agenda.

All one has to do to make all these verses say Jesus is God is to say that Jesus was fully God and full man, 100% God and 100% man. Unfortunately, such an assertion, while found in many of the Pagan religions of that time, is glaringly missing from the scriptures.

If you use the fact that Jesus had a dual aspect, then you have to explain why we, also having a divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) as well as our human nature, are not also God. You might want to reconsider exactly what it means to have a divine as well as a human nature. It doesn't appear to make us be God. There must be something else to it. That's why we study.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit. It's a ruling body, and three separate beings as one.

 

[rrobs]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit. It's a ruling body, and three separate beings as one.

That is certainly what the Council of Nicea agreed upon. I don't see it in the scriptures, but who cares what they say?

 

[TheTruthReaper]

I don't intend to debate on this. What I state is my belief, and others are welcome to theirs, and I will defend their right to their beliefs.

In the OT, when Moses first encounters God, he is told that he can not look upon God and live. Later on, God allows Moses to see him and he comes out all bleached.

Yes, I know that in the NT Jesus says that "I and the Father are one", but I think that means, in context, that the Father and he agree. If Jesus were God, then no one could have looked at him, and people DID look at him, even after the resurrection.

I think that the "Jesus as God" idea came out of the folly of what became the early Catholic Church.

I'm not going to dig all the references out. We all claim to be out of diapers, so you can do it yourself.

Since Jesus is not your God
who or what is your god/

 

[TheTruthReaper]

Well, they had to have a reason for wanting to stone him

Why do you think they wanted to stone Jesus?

 

[TheTruthReaper]

Can you name me one human who isn't?

Why ...yes I can.