Jesus in Heaven is not God

[Brian2]

As a matter of clarity, then, what do you say was that ‘Glory’ that you are alluding to that Jesus had with the Father before the world existed?

I don't say what that glory is, I just acknowledge God's Word, which tells us that He had it, with the Father, before the world existed.

Do you believe Jesus is not a liar?
Do you believe that Jesus and the apostles said that ‘No one has seen God AT ANY TIME’ and that ‘THE SON OF GOD HAS REVEALED HIM’?

Indeed, part of Jesus’ mission WAS EXACTLY THAT: To reveal the Father. To reveal God to the nations.

I just gave a quote that contradicts any quote about nobody having seen God at any time.
How do you explain it so that the Word of God is true and does not contradict itself?

 

[Soapy]

Jesus in heaven is a Son of God, a divine being with power and authority who is creator of this world. He was with God in the beginning. He came down to earth and lived as a human while subject to the will of his Father. He revealed the Father to mankind then returned to his place in heaven. In heaven he is known as Christ Michael.



1When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. 2For You granted Him authority over all people,a so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. 4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

Can you tell me why Jesus came only to reveal the Father?

Also, Jesus was ‘sent’ by the Father with the testimony about Him. This ‘sending’ was after Jesus was baptised with the spirit of the Father at the river Jordon… The Father ANOINTED Jesus with HIS holy Spirit - the Spirit of the Father.

That was when Jesus was commissioned. He was given the means (the power in the Spirit) that he would need on his mission then TESTED in the wilderness as to whether he would misuse that power …. He didn’t …. He passed the test with flying colours!! He resisted all the temptations set to him by the most tempting of all Beings - the angel entitled ‘[The] Satan’.

Acts 10:37-38 highlights the point of his commission:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

Also, Jesus announced his commission in public in his local synagogue on the following Sabbath day following his return from the wilderness:

• “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because He [Almighty God; The Father] has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,…. He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Luke 4:18 & 21)

So you can see by Jesus’ own words that these events were FORETOLD to be the start of his commission which were FULFILLED in those moments. Jesus was SENT after the anointing from the Father:

• ‘You are my Son… chosen by me because you are my beloved - my chosen one in whom I am well pleased. You have been appointed, set aside (Consecrated) to carry out the work that I have given to be done in the world: to bring salvation to the poor, the low in spirit, the sick, the deaf, the blind, the lame, the lost sheep…’ (my summary of Isaiah 42:1-7…
• 1) Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
• my chosen one in whom I delight;
  I will put my Spirit on him,
  and he will bring justice to the nations.
  2) He will not shout or cry out,
  or raise his voice in the streets.
  3) A bruised reed he will not break,
  and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
  In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
  4) he will not falter or be discouraged
  till he establishes justice on earth.
  In his teaching the islands will put their hope.”
  5) This is what God the Lord says—
  the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out,
  who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it,
  who gives breath to its people,
  and life to those who walk on it:
  6) “I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness;
  I will take hold of your hand.
  I will keep you and will make you
  to be a covenant for the people
  and a light for the Gentiles,
  7) to open eyes that are blind,
  to free captives from prison
  and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.”

“Open your eyes ye that are blind, be freed from ye captives who are in prison
and be release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.” (Paraphrased!!)

 

[Colt]

Can you tell me why Jesus cams to reveal the Father?

Also, Jesus was ‘sent’ by the Father with the testimony about Him. This ‘sending’ was after Jesus was baptised with the spirit of the Father at the river Jordon… The Father ANOINTED Jesus with HIS holy Spirit - the Spirit of the Father.

That was when Jesus was commissioned. He was given the means (the power in the Spirit) that he would need on his mission then TESTED in the wilderness as to whether he would misuse that power …. He didn’t …. He passed the test with flying colours!! He resisted all the temptations set to him by the most tempting of all Beings - the angel entitled ‘[The] Satan’.

Acts 10:37-38 highlights the point of his commission:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

Also, Jesus announced his commission in public in his local synagogue on the following Sabbath day following his return from the wilderness:

• “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because He [Almighty God; The Father] has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,…. He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Luke 4:18 & 21)

So you can see by Jesus’ own words that these events were FORETOLD to be the start of his commission which were FULFILLED in those moments. Jesus was SENT after the anointing from the Father:

• ‘You are my Son… chosen by me because you are my beloved - my chosen one in whom I am well pleased. You have been appointed, set aside (Consecrated) to carry out the work that I have given to be done in the world: to bring salvation to the poor, the low in spirit, the sick, the deaf, the blind, the lame, the lost sheep…’ (my summary of Isaiah 42:1-7…
• 1) Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
• my chosen one in whom I delight;
  I will put my Spirit on him,
  and he will bring justice to the nations.
  2) He will not shout or cry out,
  or raise his voice in the streets.
  3) A bruised reed he will not break,
  and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
  In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
  4) he will not falter or be discouraged
  till he establishes justice on earth.
  In his teaching the islands will put their hope.”
  5) This is what God the Lord says—
  the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out,
  who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it,
  who gives breath to its people,
  and life to those who walk on it:
  6) “I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness;
  I will take hold of your hand.
  I will keep you and will make you
  to be a covenant for the people
  and a light for the Gentiles,
  7) to open eyes that are blind,
  to free captives from prison
  and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.”

“Open your eyes ye that are blind, be freed from ye captives who are in prison
and be release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.” (Paraphrased!!)

Yes, Christ Michael was required to come down to earth and live as a human like those he and the spirit creates in order to achieve unquestioned sovereignty of his own co-creation.

* Jesus had already pleased the Father BEFORE his baptism. “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”

* The voice of the Father was the spirit of the Father within Jesus that he had been loyal to from the beginning. The Father is within all of us.

* When Jesus came down from heaven he ALREADY had power and authority, after he finished his earth mission he was give "all power and authority in heaven and on earth".

Jesus was much more than a local carpenter!

 

[Soapy]

I don't say what that glory is, I just acknowledge God's Word, which tells us that He had it, with the Father, before the world existed.

“God’s word” does not say that Jesus had glory with the Father before the world existed. Moreover, God IS the Father so you would be saying that Jesus had glory with GOD before the world existed. But, of course ‘Jesus’ did not exist before GOD created him in the manner of the first Adam, a man! The MESSIAH was FORETOLD as a prophesy to appear at a time that God chose according to his own Will:

• ‘In the past God spoke [to mankind] through the prophets. But in the fullness of time God spoke through [the promised Messiah] who He sent in the form of a Son [which is to say, ‘A completely obedient Servant: Isaiah 42:1]’

The scriptures do not claim the obedient Servant was a pre-existent entity.

The words you read in the TRINITARIAN TRANSLATED VERSION are not valid. Jesus WARNED US that such alterations (additions and subtractions) would take place but those who chose to make them would suffer greatly in their spiritual longevity.

You are warned again!!

The glory THAT WAS WAS WITH THE FATHER AND WAS AWAITING HE WHO WOULD BE THE SON OF GOD: The human ruler of the created world.

In your false belief, Jesus, who is some kind of pre-existent ‘God-Like’ Being, becomes a man and dies in order to save humanity and thus gets to RULE OVER THE KINGDOM HE CREATED???

And yet your Jesus was RULING HEAVEN WITH THE FATHER AS A GOD??? Now he is DEMOTED TO A MORTAL HUMAN ruling on a kingdom that is vastly inferior to his supposed Heavenly world…. That’s amazing!!

• “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.” (Mark 13:26)
• “13 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language served him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.” (Daniel 7:13-14)

Jesus RECEIVES power and glory AFTER he conquers… There is no TORAH or other Old Testament scriptures that claims Jesus was pre-existent and had power and glory with the Father - in fact there is no testimonial of a Jesus and Father (Son and Father) in any true translations. Note that the New Testament is a GREEK HELENISTIC mistranslation in several places of what was the truth. The Hebrew Old Testament was not so easily mistranslated and there far closer to the truth in full.

I just gave a quote that contradicts any quote about nobody having seen God at any time.
How do you explain it so that the Word of God is true and does not contradict itself?

I think you are being a tad silly. ‘GOD’ is SPIRIT. Spirit cannot be seen with the human eye - Spirit is like wind which cannot be seen; but only the EFFECT of it.

You know this and there is no need to be ‘innocent’ about the truth of the saying:

• ‘God is Spirit … No man has seen God at anytime. The Son of God (Jesus - who is closest in love of God, the Father) has come to reveal him (which means His Personage)

 

[Soapy]

Yes, Christ Michael was required to come down to earth and live as a human like those he and the spirit creates in order to achieve unquestioned sovereignty of his own co-creation.

‘Christ Michael’???

Who is that? Is it a Mormon God?

* Jesus had already pleased the Father BEFORE his baptism. “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased!”

Ha ha ha… You are so funny!!!
Yes, Jesus DID please the Father before his baptism …. It was BECAUSE Jesus pleased the Father that the Father CHOSE HIM to be the beloved:

• ‘Behold MY SERVANT whom I uphold… MY BELOVED WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN… I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT ON HIM…’ (Isaiah 42:1)

* The voice of the Father was the spirit of the Father within Jesus that he had been loyal to from the beginning. The Father is within all of us.

Jesus had been loyal FROM HIS BIRTH:

• “Do you not know that k must be about my Fathers business?”

What was his “Father’s business”?

* When Jesus came down from heaven he ALREADY had power and authority, after he finished his earth mission he was give "all power and authority in heaven and on earth".

Jesus did not ‘Come down from Heaven’.

There is no valid bible scripture making any such claim.

Jesus was much more than a local carpenter!

Who is saying that Jesus was not more than just a local carpenter? (You make a straw man and then set it alight to prove your own straw man?)

 

[Colt]

‘Christ Michael’???

Who is that? Is it a Mormon God?

Ha ha ha… You are so funny!!!
Yes, Jesus DID please the Father before his baptism …. It was BECAUSE Jesus pleased the Father that the Father CHOSE HIM to be the beloved:

• ‘Behold MY SERVANT whom I uphold… MY BELOVED WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN… I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT ON HIM…’ (Isaiah 42:1)

Jesus had been loyal FROM HIS BIRTH:

• “Do you not know that k must be about my Fathers business?”

What was his “Father’s business”?

Jesus did not ‘Come down from Heaven’.

There is no valid bible scripture making any such claim.

Who is saying that Jesus was not more than just a local carpenter? (You make a straw man and then set it alight to prove your own straw man?)

Jesus and the Michael of the Book of Revelation are the same.

As for the preexistence of Jesus there are a number of scriptures that address it.

“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”

But I assume you have dumbed down all the scriptures that point to preexistence to suit your unbelief, so I won't waste time referencing them.

 

[Yokefellow]

I see my posts are being ignored once again by @Soapy .

What you anti-Trinitarians do not understand is that Jesus is his own Father.

In other words, Jesus conceived himself in the womb of Mary.

It is called Kenosis...

Kenosis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This makes Mary both Mother *and* Bride at the same time. New Jerusalem is both Mother *and* Bride of the Lamb.

Look at what God says here...

Isaiah 54:5
"For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called."

It is a concept most people do not understand, so they 'dumb down' the Bible in a vain attempt to have it all make sense to them. Getting rid of the Trinity is one of the casualties of this.

One cannot apply carnal/Earthly logic and processes of procreation to a Heavenly process. They do not work the same.

Look at what happened before the Flood...

The Sons of God that came into the Daughters of Man did something similar to what Jesus did. They conceived themselves via a type of Kenosis, which made their so called 'Wives' their Mothers as well. That is what it means to 'come into'....

Genesis 6:4
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

The Sons of God did not 'float down to Earth' in adult bodies with reproductive organs and 'mate' with Women.

Again, they were their own Fathers because they conceived themselves.

 

[Brian2]

The words you read in the TRINITARIAN TRANSLATED VERSION are not valid. Jesus WARNED US that such alterations (additions and subtractions) would take place but those who chose to make them would suffer greatly in their spiritual longevity.

Which translation do you use which doesn't say those things?

You are warned again!!

The glory THAT WAS WAS WITH THE FATHER AND WAS AWAITING HE WHO WOULD BE THE SON OF GOD: The human ruler of the created world.

In your false belief, Jesus, who is some kind of pre-existent ‘God-Like’ Being, becomes a man and dies in order to save humanity and thus gets to RULE OVER THE KINGDOM HE CREATED???

And yet your Jesus was RULING HEAVEN WITH THE FATHER AS A GOD??? Now he is DEMOTED TO A MORTAL HUMAN ruling on a kingdom that is vastly inferior to his supposed Heavenly world…. That’s amazing!!

• “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.” (Mark 13:26)
• “13 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language served him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.” (Daniel 7:13-14)

Jesus RECEIVES power and glory AFTER he conquers… There is no TORAH or other Old Testament scriptures that claims Jesus was pre-existent and had power and glory with the Father - in fact there is no testimonial of a Jesus and Father (Son and Father) in any true translations. Note that the New Testament is a GREEK HELENISTIC mistranslation in several places of what was the truth. The Hebrew Old Testament was not so easily mistranslated and there far closer to the truth in full.

Yes the Hebrew Scriptures are not as straight forward about Jesus and who He is and where He came from.
It's through the New Testament that we can see meanings in the OT that the Jews could only guess.

I think you are being a tad silly. ‘GOD’ is SPIRIT. Spirit cannot be seen with the human eye - Spirit is like wind which cannot be seen; but only the EFFECT of it.

You know this and there is no need to be ‘innocent’ about the truth of the saying:

• ‘God is Spirit … No man has seen God at anytime. The Son of God (Jesus - who is closest in love of God, the Father) has come to reveal him (which means His Personage)

That does not explain it so that there is no contradiction however.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus and the Michael of the Book of Revelation are the same.

As for the preexistence of Jesus there are a number of scriptures that address it.

“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”

But I assume you have dumbed down all the scriptures that point to preexistence to suit your unbelief, so I won't waste time referencing them.

Not dumbed them down … it is you that has BEEFED them up to try to make your claim appear somehow, but not in any way completely, true; aka: False!

 

[Soapy]

Which translation do you use which doesn't say those things?

What? Which translations do not say that there would be satisfactory attempts to scupper the truth of the scriptures but Jesus warned that such persons who did that would suffer in they’d spiritual longevity???

Are you joking???

Yes the Hebrew Scriptures are not as straight forward about Jesus and who He is and where He came from.
It's through the New Testament that we can see meanings in the OT that the Jews could only guess.

The Hebrew Scriptures express PROPHESIES about the coming Messiah. A prophesy is by its own nature obscure in detail since things and matters were possibly inconceivable to the people of the time of was prophesied. Can you imagine prophesying about a man walking on the moon to someone in the time of Isaiah, the prophet?

And prophesied are concerning things yet to occur. So when prophesy says that a Servant would be sent by God, the servant whom God would choose, why do you suppose that God had already chosen that servant because the servant was ALREADY IN EXISTENCE WITH GOD?

And WHERE is the glory in winning something that you ALREADY WON before the race even began? No! The prophesy says HE WILL WIN THE GLORY AFTER HE HAS RUN THE RACE! But he still had to run and win the race EVEN IF HE WAS ASSURED VICTORY!!

However, we know that Jesus had to mind his spiritual P’s and Q’s at all times … and at the last hurdle he faultered for a moment, saying:

• ‘Father, if it be thy will, take this cup away from me…. Father, if there could be another way…’

bug he recovered himself:

• ‘… but not mine but your Will be done!’

If he had already had the glory before finishing the race….! How is that f he had not recovered himself? No! The glory is only his WHEN and AFTER he finished!!!

That does not explain it so that there is no contradiction however.

Wow!! Astounding?

NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME [and lived in that moment].

And you say many people have seen God [and lived in that moment]…

Clearly you speak of s pagan God made of rock, stone, wood, and/or iron, which explains all the answers you have been giving me so far.

God is Spirit. No one can see Heavenly Spirit because it is IMMATERIAL… it is not a humanly visible nor touchable entity:

• No [human] eye may see, nor [human] hand may touch, nor any [human] mind may conceive the awesomeness of the ethereal God of the Israelites

 

[Colt]

Not dumbed them down … it is you that has BEEFED them up to try to make your claim appear somehow, but not in any way completely, true; aka: False!

So the Pharisees said to Him, “You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not valid.”

14Jesus replied, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from or where I am going. 15You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone; I am with the Father who sent Me.e 17Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid.f 18I am One who testifies about Myself, and the Father, who sent Me, also testifies about Me.”

19“Where is Your Father?” they asked Him.

“You do not know Me or My Father,” Jesus answered. “If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well.”

20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts, near the treasury. Yet no one seized Him, because His hour had not yet come.

21Again He said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for Me, but you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.”

22So the Jews began to ask, “Will He kill Himself, since He says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?”

23Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25“Who are You?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26“I have much to say about you and much to judge. But the One who sent Me is truthful, and what I have heard from Him, I tell the world.”

27They did not understand that He was telling them about the Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me. 29He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.”

 

[Soapy]

So the Pharisees said to Him, “You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not valid.”

14Jesus replied, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from or where I am going. 15You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone; I am with the Father who sent Me.e 17Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid.f 18I am One who testifies about Myself, and the Father, who sent Me, also testifies about Me.”

19“Where is Your Father?” they asked Him.

“You do not know Me or My Father,” Jesus answered. “If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well.”

20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts, near the treasury. Yet no one seized Him, because His hour had not yet come.

21Again He said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for Me, but you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.”

22So the Jews began to ask, “Will He kill Himself, since He says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?”

23Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25“Who are You?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26“I have much to say about you and much to judge. But the One who sent Me is truthful, and what I have heard from Him, I tell the world.”

27They did not understand that He was telling them about the Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me. 29He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.”

You quote the scriptures but you don’t understand their meaning.

You think in the scriptures you found evidence for your belief but it is evidence AGAINST your belief but you don’t know it since you convinced yourself that’s it’s veracity if for you though the reality is it is against you.

‘I am from above…’: ‘I know more than you do! My sight is on higher things of the spirit, your sight are on lower things of the flesh!’

‘When you have lifted up THE SON OF MAN…’

‘I do nothing on my own [volition] but speak only what the Father teaches/taught me…’

‘I always do what pleases Him!’: The perfect definition of ‘A [dutiful] Son’…

‘…what I have heard from Him, I tell the world!’: ‘what I Heard from the father’… ‘what the Father taught me…’… “Jesus grew in wisdom and knowledge…[as he was taught by the father]’

‘They did not understand [WHAT] He was telling them…’

 

[Colt]

You quote the scriptures but you don’t understand their meaning.

You think in the scriptures you found evidence for your belief but it is evidence AGAINST your belief but you don’t know it since you convinced yourself that’s it’s veracity if for you though the reality is it is against you.

‘I am from above…’: ‘I know more than you do! My sight is on higher things of the spirit, your sight are on lower things of the flesh!’

‘When you have lifted up THE SON OF MAN…’

‘I do nothing on my own [volition] but speak only what the Father teaches/taught me…’

‘I always do what pleases Him!’: The perfect definition of ‘A [dutiful] Son’…

‘…what I have heard from Him, I tell the world!’: ‘what I Heard from the father’… ‘what the Father taught me…’… “Jesus grew in wisdom and knowledge…[as he was taught by the father]’

‘They did not understand [WHAT] He was telling them…’

Of coarse you would say that, but many other people read the same scripture and conclude a different meaning. It’s pointless to debate.

The preexistent Son and creator of this wold has always been loyal the Universal Father.

 

[Bthoth]

It’s often said by Trinitarians that Jesus was a man on earth but resumed being God when he was raised up to Heaven. In fact the saying is that Jesus went BACK to being in Heaven.

Well, there are no claims by Jesus, himself, that he came from Heaven, only that he was ‘Going to the Father’, which is not a ‘RETURNING’.

Moreover, any suggestion that Jesus ‘RESUMED’ being God on being raised up to Heaven is debunked by the fact that ‘GOD’ is still greater than he:

• “In the sight of God, who gives life to everything (and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession) I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen. ” (1 Timothy 6:13-16)

Jesus Christ’s RETURN TO EARTH… will be when GOD decides it’s the right time.

Recall that Jesus, himself, said, when asked about his return:

• “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36)

which proves the Father as being ‘God’, as the two verses selections align perfectly.

In addition, we know that ‘No one has seen the God at any time’ - which tallies with the last part of the previous quoted verse: 1 Tim 6:16, ‘… whom no one has seen or can see’.

Can anyone, in sincere honesty and righteousness, still claim that Jesus is ‘God’?

Jesus was no a god but just like a pharaoh people made the man into a god.


Not even the mahdi, kalki or messiah is to be a god. Perhaps claiming jesus as a god is how to overcome the ambiguity of why jesus did not fulfill what was promised in/of prophecy

 

[Soapy]

So the Pharisees said to Him, “You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not valid.”

14Jesus replied, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from or where I am going. 15You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone; I am with the Father who sent Me.e 17Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid.f 18I am One who testifies about Myself, and the Father, who sent Me, also testifies about Me.”

19“Where is Your Father?” they asked Him.

“You do not know Me or My Father,” Jesus answered. “If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well.”

20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts, near the treasury. Yet no one seized Him, because His hour had not yet come.

21Again He said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for Me, but you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.”

22So the Jews began to ask, “Will He kill Himself, since He says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?”

23Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25“Who are You?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26“I have much to say about you and much to judge. But the One who sent Me is truthful, and what I have heard from Him, I tell the world.”

27They did not understand that He was telling them about the Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me. 29He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.”

You quote the scriptures but you don’t understand their meaning.

You think in the scriptures you found evidence for your belief but it is evidence AGAINST your belief but you don’t know it since you convinced yourself that’s it’s veracity if for you though the reality is it is against you.

‘I am from above…’: ‘I know more than you do! My sight is on higher things of the spirit, your sight are on lower things of the flesh!’

‘When you have lifted up THE SON OF MAN…’

‘I do nothing on my own [volition] but speak only what the Father teaches/taught me…’

‘I always do what pleases Him!’: The perfect definition of ‘A [dutiful] Son’…

‘…what I have heard from Him, I tell the world!’: ‘what I Heard from the father’… ‘what the Father taught me…’… “Jesus grew in wisdom and knowledge…[as he was taught by the father]’

‘They did not understand [WHAT] He was telling them…’

Of coarse you would say that, but many other people read the same scripture and conclude a different meaning. It’s pointless to debate.

The preexistent Son and creator of this wold has always been loyal the Universal Father.

Deceptive words from you.

Of course the Son has always been loyal to the Father….

From his birth he was loyal until the father acknowledged publicly that hd was so, and the Son remained loyal afterwards, too.

The many people who read differently from what the truth is in the scriptures are foretold to be destined to eternal death. Yes, it’s a threat from the aspect of the reality that a faulty device is destined to be eternally destroyed unless the fault can be rectified…

There is still time to rectify your faulty reading … Don’t look to WHO ELSE reads the scriptures wrongly… learn to read it right got you AND THEN you can help to correct it also for others!

 

[Colt]

You quote the scriptures but you don’t understand their meaning.

You think in the scriptures you found evidence for your belief but it is evidence AGAINST your belief but you don’t know it since you convinced yourself that’s it’s veracity if for you though the reality is it is against you.

‘I am from above…’: ‘I know more than you do! My sight is on higher things of the spirit, your sight are on lower things of the flesh!’

‘When you have lifted up THE SON OF MAN…’

‘I do nothing on my own [volition] but speak only what the Father teaches/taught me…’

‘I always do what pleases Him!’: The perfect definition of ‘A [dutiful] Son’…

‘…what I have heard from Him, I tell the world!’: ‘what I Heard from the father’… ‘what the Father taught me…’… “Jesus grew in wisdom and knowledge…[as he was taught by the father]’

‘They did not understand [WHAT] He was telling them…’

Deceptive words from you.

Of course the Son has always been loyal to the Father….

From his birth he was loyal until the father acknowledged publicly that hd was so, and the Son remained loyal afterwards, too.

The many people who read differently from what the truth is in the scriptures are foretold to be destined to eternal death. Yes, it’s a threat from the aspect of the reality that a faulty device is destined to be eternally destroyed unless the fault can be rectified…

There is still time to rectify your faulty reading … Don’t look to WHO ELSE reads the scriptures wrongly… learn to read it right got you AND THEN you can help to correct it also for others!

That’s just your opinion, one of many. It’s you who quote scripture but are unable to grasp the significance of Jesus’ revelations about his identity, preexistence in heaven, power and authority.

"I am from above" means Jesus came down from the celestial realm and became a human. The Jews who heard him and were offended knew full well what he meant!

All human who are loyal to the Father "grow in wisdom and knowledge as humans". As Jesus grew up he became aware of the preexistence of his personality. Man doesn't have a preexistence. Man didn't have glory with God before this world began, but since the Son of God is from the eternal past of the spirt realm then the following makes sense:

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.

"The Son of Man and Jesus are two distinct concepts in the Bible. According to David Wilber, a scholar on ancient texts, the Son of Man in the New Testament refers to a heavenly person who descends to this world, whose principal role in His visitation to this earth is that of the heavenly judge. The Son of Man is also identified with Enoch himself, who represents the ideal human righteousness that God intended for his creation 1.

On the other hand, Jesus is referred to as the Son of God and is considered to be the second person of the Trinity in Christian theology. The title “Son of God” implies his deity, while “Son of Man” refers to his humanity 12."

 

[Soapy]

That’s just your opinion, one of many. It’s you who quote scripture but are unable to grasp the significance of Jesus’ revelations about his identity, preexistence in heaven, power and authority.

"I am from above" means Jesus came down from the celestial realm and became a human. The Jews who heard him and were offended knew full well what he meant!

All human who are loyal to the Father "grow in wisdom and knowledge as humans". As Jesus grew up he became aware of the preexistence of his personality. Man doesn't have a preexistence. Man didn't have glory with God before this world began, but since the Son of God is from the eternal past of the spirt realm then the following makes sense:

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.

"The Son of Man and Jesus are two distinct concepts in the Bible. According to David Wilber, a scholar on ancient texts, the Son of Man in the New Testament refers to a heavenly person who descends to this world, whose principal role in His visitation to this earth is that of the heavenly judge. The Son of Man is also identified with Enoch himself, who represents the ideal human righteousness that God intended for his creation 1.

On the other hand, Jesus is referred to as the Son of God and is considered to be the second person of the Trinity in Christian theology. The title “Son of God” implies his deity, while “Son of Man” refers to his humanity 12."

When the end comes then you will understand … and it may not go well for you given your present stance - still, there is a time for you to learn the trough - and that time is now!

 

[Colt]

When the end comes then you will understand … and it may not go well for you given your present stance - still, there is a time for you to learn the trough - and that time is now!

Your silly threats are no rebuttal to what I provided which tells me you have no answer just opinions.

 

[Soapy]

Your silly threats are no rebuttal to what I provided which tells me you have no answer just opinions.

Erm… it’s not my threat!!! It’s what scriptures says about those who don’t ‘have ears to hear, nor eyes to see’… but more like ignore what they’re ears hear and what they’re eyes see!

But if you are querying what I wrote then there is a chance you are understanding … a little of what you saw written and heard (mindfully) being said.

You just need to accept the truth and you are on your way to salvation.

Well done for taking the first step.

 

[Colt]

Erm… it’s not my threat!!! It’s what scriptures says about those who don’t ‘have ears to hear, nor eyes to see’… but more like ignore what they’re ears hear and what they’re eyes see!

But if you are querying what I wrote then there is a chance you are understanding … a little of what you saw written and heard (mindfully) being said.

You just need to accept the truth and you are on your way to salvation.

Well done for taking the first step.

I’m already saved, your rejection of the truth of the preexistence of the Son of God has nothing to do with salvation. It’s just a fact. One day your eyes may be opened to the obvious.