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Jesus and Siddhartha Gautama

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Did either man ever say that he was better than everyone else? or anyone else for that matter?
     
  2. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    Not as far as we can know. I dont think they would have any reason to say it, the teaching they gave is the important to the followers.
     
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  3. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    " Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.' " sounds pretty exclusivist. Interpretations vary, as it does with everything.
     
  4. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    They both alluded to certain qualities that they seem to have uniquely posessed.
     
  5. Vouthon

    Vouthon In varietate concordia
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    A consensus of scholars concurs that Jesus never said these words.

    In the earliest strata of the synoptic material, there are no "I am" sayings. They are overwhemingly from the fourth gospel and most often seem tied to events and christological disputes that did not yet occur during Jesus's lifetime, which precludes them coming from his lips.

    This gives us important insight into what early Christians believed about Jesus in the late first century. But it can't really be used as evidence of what he himself would have believed about himself.

    It stems from the unique theological stance of the Johannine author of the fourth gospel, which was defending the idea of Jesus's deity from criticism by other Jews and exclusion from the synagogues over including another figure in the worship owed to the One God of Israel.

    No one involved in textual criticism regards this saying as going back to Jesus.

    As such, we cannot hold him accountable for something he is overwhelmingly unlikely to have taught - but which rather clearly stems from the editorial, sectarian stance of a spokesman for a persecuted early Christian community writing in a different era from Jesus and in response to a different set of circumstances (synagogue exclusion, which didn't happen during Jesus's lifetime and the question of divine incarnation).

    Which brings up an important question: when someone asks what Jesus or Buddha taught, should we point simply to what some later followers attributed, or consult historical scholarship that can help us determine what likely goes back to the said individual?

    Even though we can never know with 100% certainty what positively does go back to the historical Jesus, we can discern what is earlier and can separate this from what he evidently did not teach.

    If the question is about what the Gospels, New Testament or Christianity says, then we can just go ahead.

    But for Jesus himself, since we have no teachings directly from his hand and for Buddha as well, I would opine that we should probably not do this if we can avoid it.
     
    #5 Vouthon, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    neither pythagoras, siddhartha, yeshua, socrates wrote anything about themselves, or wrote anything on philosophy. every thing is second hand. not uncommon.



    when you're pushing ideology you're not necessarily worried about self-adulation

    pythagoras and tesla would have been great friends
     
  7. Vouthon

    Vouthon In varietate concordia
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    Yes but for Plato, Aristotle, Seneca, Epicurus and other ancient philosophers we have works actually written by them.

    When it comes to those for whom we don't, including Jesus and Buddha, we cannot take what a later writer attributes merely at face value without invoking textual criticism.

    Consider that a few of the 'Pauline' Epistles in the New Testament have been found by modern scholars to have definitely not come from his hand, when compared to his authentic writings. Sometimes, the ideological differences are huge - such as the approach to the role of women in the church.

    This means that we need to be careful with the Gospel material if we are talking about what the historical Jesus is likely to have actually taught and the same caution must be applied to the Pali Canon for the Buddha.
     
    #7 Vouthon, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  8. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    i agree. i believe the OT and the NT have been seeded with things that probably aren't attributed to the personalities involved. like worship of the personality. this is why i study other systems to understand ideas about human action and behavior.

    benevolence appears to be a recurring theme.
     
  9. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I have my doubts about the complete historicity of the gospels -- i think the basic truths have been overlaid with legend and myth.

    But if you believe the gospels, Jesus very definitely made claims that put him in a category unlike other men. "Son of man" and "Son of God" come to mind. "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." "I am the vine and you are the branches." "I and the Father are one." How about this one:
    Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?" "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
     
  10. Marcion

    Marcion Departed Member

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    Those are the words of the author of gJohn and certainly not the words of a historical Yeshua. You have to be very careful how and who you quote from the New Testament.

    Both Gautama Buddha and Yeshua can be seen as teaching within the tradition of Tantra but Yeshua also uses the vehicle of devotion for the realised Master (Guru) whereas Gautama does not do that.
     
  11. Amanaki

    Amanaki sotāpanna

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    Both in Jesus time and Buddha Sakyamunis time the oral tradition was much more developed then it is today, because today we rely on written words, at that time the disiple could listen to Buddha or Jesus once and they would remember the words correctly, try doing that in a group today, and we will fail.
    A other thing we can think of is that Both Buddha and Jesus would be able to speak to a group who may have different level of understanding and all of them would grasp the teaching, on their own level of wisdom, times has changed a lot from that time, and honestly not all to the better when we look at the spiritual realm (my understanding)
     
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  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    son of man is a jewish term; which ezekiel used too.


    SON OF MAN - JewishEncyclopedia.com


    evidently a son of a god was an angel or demigod; which obviously isn't exclusive either.


    SON OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com


    it would seem that being born of the Spirit would then make most everything a demi-god. i believe genesis 1 and john 1:3 imply that is the case. exodus 3:14 too
     
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