Jehovah's Witnesses.... freeing people from the misconceptions of the world

[t3gah]

Jehovah's Witnesses walk around preaching about heaven and the earthly hope without thinking about the people they are talking to. They tell themselves that they are 'freeing people from the misconceptions of the world and its false philosophies'. But....

Which is better?

1. I'm going to heaven when I die to be with loved ones, Jesus and God.
2. I'm staying on earth with loved ones, my dead loved ones are conscious of nothing at all and I have to do this 'earthly' struggle all over again!

 

[robtex]

Alex, do Jwitness see it as a choice based on personal desires or a choice made by them by an omnipotent God who has bid them to do his will? My understanding is that it is the lather and as such their purpose is to propogate that will on earth. The idea of seeing life on earth as "struggle" compared to an afterlife that there is no verifcation of is a depressing thought. I hope those that believe in an afterlife also believe in a right now life too and don't see this life as an exercise in frutility and struggle for humanity.

If you are looking for a way to construct an arguement for # 1 realize that you would have to prove it is a human choice in the first place to be able to choose. Maybe is doable in your Christian reality and maybe it isn't (I don't know) but don't put the chicken before the egg on this arguement.

 

[fromthe heart]

I didn't think JW's believed in Hell...and why do Kingdom Hall's have no windows? Just curious.

 

[t3gah]

Alex, do Jwitness see it as a choice based on personal desires or a choice made by them by an omnipotent God who has bid them to do his will? My understanding is that it is the latter and as such their purpose is to propogate that will on earth. The idea of seeing life on earth as "struggle" compared to an afterlife that there is no verifcation of is a depressing thought. I hope those that believe in an afterlife also believe in a right now life too and don't see this life as an exercise in frutility and struggle for humanity.

Since JWs think the current life situation is a test that Satan is being allowed to try out on us all, it only seems logical that the core thought of practicing JWs think they are saviours because Jesus commanded disciples in bible times. The reality of that is quite a few people are fine and dandy without knowing the truths in the bible. On the other hand, I surely hope people believe the world that they have now isn't a struggle, but the media and public opinion seems to say the opposite for those in other countries besides the US. Second world and third world seem to be struggling a great deal, etc.

If you are looking for a way to construct an arguement for # 1 realize that you would have to prove it is a human choice in the first place to be able to choose. Maybe is doable in your Christian reality and maybe it isn't (I don't know) but don't put the chicken before the egg on this arguement.

People do struggle on earth the way God has left it and in the state that Jesus created. JWs do walk around thinking that people are better off knowing about the truth. They also think they are the only ones that know it too, but that's another story entirely.

I posted this thread because I remember what we were taught one night in the Theocratic Ministry School. The person made the comment that we, JWs, are 'freeing the minds of the dissolutioned'. The people are 'hurting' and 'we know it'. They 'need our help'. The 'truth must be told'.

All that was from our Circuit Overseer who is in charge of many congregations. About 1,200 people at times.

He also closed his talk with the following words:

In God's system you are either moving forwards or moving backwards. There is no stagnate. You are either with God and under his undeserved kindness or you are not. We want people to be like us. So let's get out there and free their minds from the misconceptions of the world philosophies.

​

He added a scripture that states that the philosophies of the world are foolishness to God. And that God shoves them aside with the wise man and the scribe.

I have the talks on cassette tape.

 

[t3gah]

I didn't think JW's believed in Hell...and why do Kingdom Hall's have no windows? Just curious.

Some Kingdom Halls have windows. Most of which are in other countries, not the US. For some reason they don't have them here except in the front near the entrance way. It's a phobia in my book. The understanding about the stained glass is one thing, but I don't see the corelation of precluding natural light from entering the building. Surely God's glorious creation the Sun should be experienced to the full. Afterall they do make tints to block off the harmful rays these days and it's not that much of an expense to have windows.

I remember one assembly hall. The floors and walls of the humungous entryway are complete Italian marble. Talk about expensive! And recently the Governing Body has set a mandate that all Kingdom Halls build their buildings according to the code set out by the Governing Body as to materials. The letter went on to talk about expenses of different design idea's wreaking havoc on the budget committee.

JWs dont believe in Hell or Hellfire, but I bet being demon possessed in bible times must have felt like Hellfire to those people. They had to wait for Jesus and his disciples to expel those nasties.

 

[kassi]

There is alot I could say concerning the JW. In some ways this is personal, because my Inlaws are witness. I have never agreed with them and i have done some intensive research on what they teach.
They say they are Gods witness, yet they have been found false witness. According to the many different predictions that havent happened as they said.
Im not saying this to pick on them only, there are many religious leaders of different sects that have also spoken falsely.
My understanding of our salvation concerns building up ones faith in the rightousness of Christ.
They say they are the mediators of Gods truth and that if your not a part of their organization then you can have no salvation. But this isnt unlike so many other who base their salvation on belonging to a certain group.

 

[Scott1]

*** MOD POST ***

Be very careful everyone..... I will not allow JW bashing on this thread.

 

[SK2005]

and why do Kingdom Hall's have no windows? Just curious.

So people don't throw rocks at them.

 

[t3gah]

There is alot I could say concerning the JW. In some ways this is personal, because my Inlaws are witness. I have never agreed with them and i have done some intensive research on what they teach.

They say they are Gods witness, yet they have been found false witness. According to the many different predictions that havent happened as they said.

Im not saying this to pick on them only, there are many religious leaders of different sects that have also spoken falsely.

My understanding of our salvation concerns building up ones faith in the rightousness of Christ.

They say they are the mediators of Gods truth and that if your not a part of their organization then you can have no salvation. But this isnt unlike so many other who base their salvation on belonging to a certain group.

This is why I gave up on being a witness for the watchtower bible and tract society.

There's a passage in the bible. Its in the book of Matthew. The apostles come to Jesus and say they saw a certain man who was not accompanying them expelling demons in Jesus name. Jesus replys: Leave him be. Those who are not against us are for us.

That means you don't have to be part of their 'earthly organization' to be saved or be counted worthy to God and Jesus.

The Governing Body, or their concept of anointed christians, have printed up a tract, which is a tiny brochure, that states that anyone who 'witnesses to God's glory' can be considered a witness of J*hovah.

Anointed persons in bible times didn't make false predictions. Understandibly they actually listened, remembered and adhered to the statement that Jesus made concerning the future, etc.

 

[kassi]

*** MOD POST ***

Be very careful everyone..... I will not allow JW bashing on this thread.

Your right Scott, there should be no bashing, of the people. But we should be allowed to point out what we dont agree with and why.

 

[t3gah]

*** MOD POST ***

Be very careful everyone..... I will not allow JW bashing on this thread.

Does this imply that JWs are getting their own section under Christian when the new web forum for rf.com goes up?

 

[kassi]

That means you don't have to be part of their 'earthly organization' to be saved or be counted worthy to God and Jesus.

This is true. And as I said in My last post, Im not against the people, But I believe there
have been so many harmless people brought into there bondage and I am saddened by this.
And its not only the Jw.
I believe Christ came to free the people from all there bondage, Including religious bondage.

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

I didn't think JW's believed in Hell...and why do Kingdom Hall's have no windows? Just curious.

what are you on about? i laughed when i read that! there's one not far from where i live and it has windows, infact they even open them! and don't make yourself sound so stupid. if they are all secretive etc, why would they go knockin doors telling people what they believe. oh, and if you go up to one of the halls, you will notice a sign on the wall announcing meeting times and on the one on a sunday is a PUBLIC TALK, ie open to the public!! Which all the others are too, by the way. so before you open your mouth again, put you brain into gear!

 

[Melody]

what are you on about? i laughed when i read that! there's one not far from where i live and it has windows, infact they even open them! and don't make yourself sound so stupid. if they are all secretive etc, why would they go knockin doors telling people what they believe. oh, and if you go up to one of the halls, you will notice a sign on the wall announcing meeting times and on the one on a sunday is a PUBLIC TALK, ie open to the public!! Which all the others are too, by the way. so before you open your mouth again, put you brain into gear!

Was it necessary to be insulting? He said nothing about the JW's being secretive...just curious about why their buildings had no windows. I often wondered myself since *every* JW hall I've seen had no windows.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

I didn't think JW's believed in Hell...and why do Kingdom Hall's have no windows? Just curious.

I have invited a few JW into my home. I love the debate . From what I have been told, the JW believe that only 144,000 will be allowed to enter Heaven. Well the world's population is now 6,446,131,400 and when you add all the people that have come and gone. This leaves my chances pretty slim.

About the Kingdom's Halls. It was explained to me that the seven houses in Heaven, each claim to be Heaven itself. Its almost like another test. Some people can get stuck in one house or the other. Maybe there are no windows so you will have to rely on your faith, and not your senses.

 

[Melody]

I have invited a few JW into my home. I love the debate . From what I have been told, the JW believe that only 144,000 will be allowed to enter Heaven.

I thought the 144,000 were sealed by God *and* were Jews.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

I thought the 144,000 were sealed by God *and* were Jews.

This is what I learned as well, 12,000 each of the 12 tribes of Isreal. JW have told me that these verses meant that only 144,000 will go to Heaven.

I believe every religion is riddled with mis-conceptions. And every religion wants desperately to clarify the truth. I personally think the JW are some of the most dedicated of the Christians. Even though they believe that only 144,000 are going to Heaven. It is a sin to celebrate birthdays, or have a beer, they still go door to door, literally, on foot, door-to-door, spreading the word of God. Now that is dedication to a cause.

 

[jewscout]

I thought the 144,000 were sealed by God *and* were Jews.

This is what I learned as well, 12,000 each of the 12 tribes of Isreal. JW have told me that these verses meant that only 144,000 will go to Heaven.

huh? so only 144,000 jews go to heaven? i don't get it...
and what is this figure based off of?

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

huh? so only 144,000 jews go to heaven? i don't get it...
and what is this figure based off of?

Jewscout, are you ready for your New testament lesson of the day? In Revelations, there is a vision of Heaven and standing behind the throne of God is 144,000 chosen people of God. When the last battle commences, no harm will be done to these, and they are said to be the total of 12,000 each of the 12 original tribes of Isreal. Some interpret this to mean that only 144000 people will be saved and go to Heaven. Others believe that these are just a group of people God sets aside for a specific purpose. Like the Levites, were separated and given specific rules.

 

[jewscout]

Jewscout, are you ready for your New testament lesson of the day? In Revelations, there is a vision of Heaven and standing behind the throne of God is 144,000 chosen people of God. When the last battle commences, no harm will be done to these, and they are said to be the total of 12,000 each of the 12 original tribes of Isreal. Some interpret this to mean that only 144000 people will be saved and go to Heaven. Others believe that these are just a group of people God sets aside for a specific purpose. Like the Levites, were separated and given specific rules.

ohhhh it's in revelations ok!
thanks ES