Its not euthanasia, its suicide.

[McBell]

I already said very clearly, she gets to decide this and make this decision.

then what is the problem?

My position is very simple. If someone is actively talking about suicide in any way, I don't view it as a decision, I view it as a cry for help and believe society should do whatever it takes to prevent it from occurring.

So your position is that she should be allowed to make the coice of suicide but that society should not allow her choice to take place?

So then it is not her choice after all, right?
Or is it her choice but not one that matters in any way?
Which would not really be a choice at all.

If someone has become truly hopeless and truly made up their mind to end it all, that is their right,

Make up your mind.
Either the choice of suicide is their choice or it is not an option.

and in that case no one will know about it until it is too late.

Seems you did not read the article in the OP...

 

[Twilight Hue]

Your bold empty claims aside, what makes you think it has to be terminal to be euthanasia?
Seeing as there are many a different definition of euthanasia used by the various governments around the world.

Perhaps this time around you will address this part you blatantly ignored the first time around?

Maybe you should look again at the peer reviewed Journal I provided you on the proper term for this.

I'll give you a hint.... it's not euthanasia as per your bold empty claims.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Lol, you are so mad for some reason. You just said that the other articles about it don't mention anything more about her health history than the article in the OP, so why the hell would I bother at this point?

You didn't bother either before I said that.
Which is the entire point. You jumped on this blind and started judging and insulting.
And doubled down after it was pointed out also.

You made exactly zero effort to find out what it is actually about before doing that.
Me mentioning that I couldn't immediately find anything else doesn't change that.

I asked if you had more info and you just threw a fit at me

You threw a fit the second you came into this thread. At the girl, at her boyfriend, at her doctors,...

, and then you finally say that you don't. What more to do you want from me?

I want you to put your emotions aside, take a step back and reflect on your behavior.

But I realize now that that is too much to ask apparently.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yeah, because killing yourself is not medicine.

It's giving up.

Yes. And who are you to judge her for it? You don't even know her story.

But more importantly, your previous post suggested that it was the doctor that told her to do it. That this wasn't her decision / request.

I'm also another one who has been previously suicidal and has found the light.

You are not her. Why do you assume your situations are similar or comparable?

Suicide is not the way, it hurts others, and installing it as an option is positively nihilistic. We're not trying to create a nihilistic society. We are trying to create a procreative society full of life, not death and loss.

I prefer to live in a society that values quality of life and compassion.
Being forced to live a life of suffering does not fit in that. This means that euthanasia must be an available option.

It's very weird how some people seem to think death is an option.

Why shouldn't it be?

A friend of mine opted for it also. Everyone had peace withit. His own brother, wife and children included.
They were in fact very happy that he had the option to end it on his own terms and put an end to years of suffering.
His own wife in fact invested quite some energy in it to get clearance.

Off course it hurts to lose a friend, father, brother, husband.
Not as much as it hurts to watch him suffer in agony day in, day out for years though.

Our birth rates are already low and we're allowing young people to kill themselves because of depression?

Not just depression. Read the article. I know, it covers barely anything about the actual health problems she dealt with.
But you'll see there's much more going on then just mere common depression.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do know enough to discern between terminal and chronic.

This is a chronic condition, not a terminal one. Making this a bonofide suicide and not euthanasia.

Euthanasia IS suicide.
Assisted suicide, to be exact.

That is always the case. It's literally what it is.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Maybe while in the process, one would can the fortune telling that this woman is beyond all hope just because a single doctor says so.

You might want to read up on euthanasia laws.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but where in the list of terminally ill conditions is depression listed as being hopelessly terminal with death unquestionably imminent and completely unavoidable.

I'd be interested in reading that in any medical journals available to the public where her diagnosis fits that criteria.

Being "hopelessly terminal with death unquestionably imminent and completely unavoidable" - not a requirement for euthanasia.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Euthanasia IS suicide.
Assisted suicide, to be exact.

That is always the case. It's literally what it is.

That's not what is being pointed out.

It's the question of terminally ill vs perfectly healthy conditions that don't lead to imminent and unavoidable death.

It's why I asked why you don't see depressed people in hospices.

Depression should involve palliative care and not euthanasia.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My main concern about the story as reported is that it mentions depression and nothing else

This is incorrect.

..due to her struggles with crippling depression, autism and borderline personality disorder


There's more going on here then mere depression.

 

[Rival]

This is incorrect.

..due to her struggles with crippling depression, autism and borderline personality disorder


There's more going on here then mere depression.

None of these are terminal illnesses.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It's not euthanasia. It's suicide.

As said. Euthanasia = assisted suicide.

It is suicide.

 

[Frank Fractal]

From the Mayo Clinic:

If you've been treated for depression but your symptoms haven't improved, you may have treatment-resistant depression. Taking an antidepressant or going to psychological counseling (psychotherapy) eases depression symptoms for most people. But with treatment-resistant depression, standard treatments aren't enough. They may not help much at all, or your symptoms may improve, only to keep coming back. [source]​

I recommend some research into NSI-189, a compound created by a company called NeuralStem. It is a potent neurogenic substance which regrows brain regions which have atrophied as a result of prolonged depression and/or trauma.
In randomised double-blind tests it cured MDD - major depressive disorder, or treatment resistant depression - after six weeks.

For reasons unknown to me it has never been commercially released.
It is available ‘off-brand’ however, if you are good at finding such things.
I won’t post any links, as that may be considered bad form.

I chose to do a six week course because of brain atrophy and cognitive decline caused by two years of chronic sleep deprivation.
Thats quite a story in itself, but maybe later.
I had also been subject to depression since teenage.

During that six week period I went from severely dysfunctional (loss of balance, zero motivation, I was experiencing ‘absences’, swirling sensations in my head, and general cognitive impairmen) to fully on deck and very much more at ease than I’d ever felt previously.

I tell you this because this compound basically saved my life.
I have not suffered depression since then - two years ago.

It seems to me that it could also be very helpful in dementia cases, especially the early stages.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's not what is being pointed out.

It's the question of terminally ill vs perfectly healthy conditions that don't lead to imminent and unavoidable death.

She was not "perfectly healthy".
Euthanasia laws don't allow "perfectly healthy" people to get euthanasia.

Do you think that I, as a reasonably healthy person with no diagnosis of anything and no resulting demonstrable suffering, could just go and get clearance for euthanasia?

It's why I asked why you don't see depressed people in hospices.

Depression should involve palliative care and not euthanasia.

Your personal beliefs are noted.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

None of these are terminal illnesses.

Which matters not.

 

[Frank Fractal]

Let’s see if this works.
This is link to Perplexity, a crazy useful AI search engine which is now one of my favourite pieces of software.

I asked for general information about NSI-189

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/Provide-general-information-BjfQ8ELdQci13QhsV8Nk.g

 

[Rival]

Which matters not.

Nice to see you seem to be advocating for the mentally ill to be able to kill themselves if they want.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Nice to see you seem to be advocating for the mentally ill to be able to kill themselves if they want.

Not what I said, but (not) nice to see your attempt to "win" the argument by trying to make the other side look bad.

 

[Rival]

Not what I said, but (not) nice to see your attempt to "win" the argument by trying to make the other side look bad.

Well, for what are you advocating then? I mean, you are allowing for people to commit suicide and psychologically healthy people don't do this, by definition. So I don't know what else your idea is.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well, for what are you advocating then?

I was merely pointing out to you that being "terminal" is not a requirement for euthanasia.
Euthanasia in the Netherlands and Belgium is concerned with quality of life and suffering.

I mean, you are allowing for people to commit suicide and psychologically healthy people don't do this, by definition.

"by definition"?

Who's definition is that? Yours?



For your interest, here are some of the criteria for euthanasia in the netherlands:

• the patient's suffering is unbearable with no prospect of improvement
• the patient's request for euthanasia must be voluntary and persist over time (the request cannot be granted when under the influence of others, psychological illness or drugs)
• the patient must be fully aware of his/her condition, prospects, and options
• there must be consultation with at least one other independent doctor who needs to confirm the conditions mentioned above

Since the article doesn't mention anything that points to these criteria not being met, nor does any article I read about this particular case, I have no reason to doubt that these criteria were met.

Meaning she was fully aware of her decision, fully aware of her options, that it was entirely voluntary, that her wish persisted over time and that it was fully her own decision which was well thought through while not under the influence of third parties, drugs or alike. Meaning she was also found to be psychologically stable to be able to make this choice rationally.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I recommend some research into NSI-189, a compound created by a company called NeuralStem.

No thanks. I was simply replying to a member who has never heard of treatment-resistant depression by noting that the Mayo Clinic recognizes such a condition.