Islam and Inter-Faith Marriages

[A-ManESL]

do you have evidence from tafsir. All the ones you mentioned are idolaters. They have elements of tauhid but they have shirk in their worship. Because they forget about the uloohiyah of the tauhid and that is to worship Allah alone. They add to the worship by putting their prophets, preists, holy men, idols etc as intermediaries besides Allah or equal to Allah.

What kind of evidence do you want? The Qur'an itself distinguishes between the monotheistic People of the Book (ahl al-kitab) (Jews, Christians, Sabians and others), and polytheists or idolaters on the other hand. I presume you need no evidence for that.

[2:62]Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[3:199]And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account.

[29:46]And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit.

[3:113-115]Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'rûf and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaqûn .

The Prophet, as may be readily ascertained also differentiated between pagan idolator Arabs whose idols were smashed, and the People of the Book whose religious rights were accepted and validated at various points. The Constitution of Medina is the first such example. If all of them were idolators then certainly they would have got the same treatment.

Here is a letter written by the Prophet, attesting to the special status of the Christians:

"This is a message written by Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, far and near, we are behind them. Verily, I defend them by myself, the servants, the helpers, and my followers, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be changed from their jobs, nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they (Christians) are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, this is not to take place without her own wish. She is not to be prevented from going to her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation is to disobey this covenant till the Day of Judgment and the end of the world."

(Source).

Judaism and Christianity were not merely to be tolerated but were de-jure valid religions.(Source.)

Regarding Zoroastrians:
Shariati has quoted Biharul-Anwar and referred also Al-Mizan wherein there is a quotation of Hazrat Ali that when he was asked about Zoroastrianism he said that they are people of the book. Further he makes a mention that Prophet of Islam allowed to take only zajiyah from Zoroastrian and treated them as People of the Book. Source: Sociology of religions: perspectives of Ali Shariati by By Mir Mohammed Ibrahim. Moreover it is common knowledge that Zoroastrians were treated explicitly as People of the Book by Islamic caliphs. This was despite the fact that Islam treated Zoroastrianists as dualists. (which is different from the pure monotheism of Islam).

Regarding Hinduism and other faiths: Since Islam encountered these religions very late there is no direct evidence from the Hadith. But here is an extract from wikipedia where each sentence is backed up my secondary sources which you may check:

Scholars have opinions as to whether or not Hinduism constitutes as a religion of The People of the Book. Many of the Muslim clergy of India considered Hindus as people of the book, and from Muhhammad-bin-Kasim to Aurangzib, Muslim rules were willing to consider Hindus as people of the book. Many Muslims did not treat Hindus as pagans or idol-worshippers.

(Source)

I consider this a theoretical Ijma and hence a part of Islam, you may think whatever you please.

tafsir? Hadith something from fuqaha to back up your statements. Because the arabs were just like the groups you claim. where is the evidence for your exegesis of our Quran

I can't understand you here. Sorry. Please read 49:14. Perhaps you have misunderstood my point.

Regards.

 

[Tiapan]

Response: It clashes because she does not love and respect Allah as she should. To show love in a marriage to a woman who does not even love her creator would not sit well in the mind of any believing muslim man and would not sit well with Allah. This would clash. Naturally, a true believing muslim wants to spread the religion of islam. So naturally, that would include his wife. And when the wife rejects islam, it would naturally not sit well in the heart of any muslim man. Again, using an analogy, it's like loving a woman who doesn't love your mother or child. However, in this scenario, Allah is responsible for the benefits in the wife's life, which would make it more upsetting for the man. Again, using an analogy, imagine if your mother was responsibile for the well being of a woman? She made sure she was fed when she was poor, she gave her money for her bills when she needed, etc. And what does the woman do? She shows absolutely no appreciation to your mother. Not even a thank you. Now this woman wants to marry you. Naturally, no man's heart would love such an unappreciative woman. The possibility of marrying such a woman is practically, non-existing. This is the case of a marriage between s muslim man and a non-faith woman. The fact that she shows absolutely no love to Allah, would never sit well with any muslim man. This is what would clash. And such a marriage would be dishonoring to Allah.

As for contraception, it is not forbidden in islam.

Adressing your 5 questions:

1. It is not that woman are weak. It is the simple fact that men are the head of household. Again, by "head of household", I mean that he has more responsibility to maintaining the household. Islam encourages the man to work out of the household and for the woman to stay at home for security reasons. Men are by nature physically stronger and are not as sensative as women, so it is best that men would go into such a dangerous world and work, rather than woman. Men are better off fighting and defending off danger than women. Again, this does not mean that women can not defend themselves. It just simply means that, by nature, a man is better wired to do so because of his physical strength. By saying "men are not as sensative", I simply mean that a woman is not as naturally inclined to fight and cause blood shed as a man, because their emotions are more opposed to doing so. That is all. Because of these reasons, the men would have more responsibile and play a more important role for financially supporting and protecting him and his wife, and the children, if any.

Now because his role is more important, his influence is as well. So when a marriage between a muslim woman and non-muslim man exists, it is more likely that his ideology will have more of an influence on the home and relationship than the woman's religion, islam, which could cause her to discourage from her religion being that her dependant upon him strongly affects her livelihood. For this reason, such marriages are forbidden. It has nothing to do necessarily with a woman's weakness, but rather the influence the man has because of his more important role. Take for example, yourself and and President. Now there's a certain law change that you want to happen. The president does not and wants the law to stay the way it is. Now who do you think will win this battle? The president of course. It is not because you are weak, but due to the fact that you have a lesser influence and that he is head of the country, which makes his views have a greater influence. The same is the case for a marriage between a muslim woman and a non-muslim man. For when it comes to beliefs, his will have a greater influence because his role as head of household. It's not because of a woman's weakness.

2. No. A woman is not just for child bearing.

3. Yes. One can be happy without islam. But one can be there happiest with it. Yes, moving from islam is bad, because by doing so, you are moving from the many wonderful blessings of Allah(swt).

4. True.

5. False. One is not to be killed if they leave islam. However, in a true islamic society, one would be questioned as to why by the head of state. This is because embracing islam then leaving has been the tactic used to divide and conquer muslims. If one did so for this reason, they should be killed. If not, then a peace treaty should be made between the person and the muslims.

Thankyou Fatihah for your response. It clarifies the situation a bit better.

I accept your reason that a muslim non-muslim marriage cannot be expected to work. I know most Australian women would not stand for such stringent demands from a husband and would take the children and walk out on him over something they simply did not believe in. I had no idea Muslim men prefered their God to their own wife. Just sounds unnatural to me. But thats just my opinion I respect your right to believe as you do.

However, I do not understand why it is based on traditional attributes of men off working and fighting to survive, and the woman left at home. Where I live most men and women drive to work and sit a desk, many even work from home these days using a computer.

There are thugs in every society but I no longer have to grab my dagger and challenge them, we have a police force who do that, and I don't have to go into the jungle to catch an antelope anymore, I can go to the local butcher for meat. So I have trouble understanding why this outdated concept is still relevant to the discussion. Many women here are teachers doctors lawyers and earn far more than their husbands. It is normal here, that some men stay at home and look after the kids while the woman goes to work. I think it is a good thing because the best skills are being used appropriately to support the family. Do you agree with this practice?

Any way Muslim women are marrying non muslim men here in Australia so I wish them luck. But I can see being married to a Muslim man could pose a problem for a non-muslim woman.

Cheers

 

[ZoyaHayat]

I dont know why this thread has lost it's main question :S...

Lol the whole thread has drifted away from the subject itself :S...

xxx

 

[Fatihah]

Thankyou Fatihah for your response. It clarifies the situation a bit better.

I accept your reason that a muslim non-muslim marriage cannot be expected to work. I know most Australian women would not stand for such stringent demands from a husband and would take the children and walk out on him over something they simply did not believe in. I had no idea Muslim men prefered their God to their own wife. Just sounds unnatural to me. But thats just my opinion I respect your right to believe as you do.

However, I do not understand why it is based on traditional attributes of men off working and fighting to survive, and the woman left at home. Where I live most men and women drive to work and sit a desk, many even work from home these days using a computer.

There are thugs in every society but I no longer have to grab my dagger and challenge them, we have a police force who do that, and I don't have to go into the jungle to catch an antelope anymore, I can go to the local butcher for meat. So I have trouble understanding why this outdated concept is still relevant to the discussion. Many women here are teachers doctors lawyers and earn far more than their husbands. It is normal here, that some men stay at home and look after the kids while the woman goes to work. I think it is a good thing because the best skills are being used appropriately to support the family. Do you agree with this practice?

Any way Muslim women are marrying non muslim men here in Australia so I wish them luck. But I can see being married to a Muslim man could pose a problem for a non-muslim woman.

Cheers

Response: Of course, times have changed, to which the dangers of this day and age differ from the past. But what hasn't changed is the difference in nature between men and women. This is why, no matter how the danger changes, it's still best that men should fight off the danger than women. Which is why the islamic practices still suit today.

 

[Tiapan]

Ok but it does show Islamic assimilation into Australian culture may be difficult, perhaps illegal in some aspects. We would regard that as discrimination against women and sexist, very anti-Australian. Any way I wish you good will in your culture. But Allah(SWT) would have to be a bit more flexible to fit into modern Australian Culture in my opinion. Have you ever worked under a female boss?

Perhaps this is part of the reason why there is such a negative reaction by Europeans to Muslim immigration. Surely the Quran has plenty of other verses which can be used instead of the current ones interpretations to allow more flexibility coexisting with other civilizations.

Cheers

 

[Fatihah]

Ok but it does show Islamic assimilation into Australian culture may be difficult, perhaps illegal in some aspects. We would regard that as discrimination against women and sexist, very anti-Australian. Any way I wish you good will in your culture. But Allah(SWT) would have to be a bit more flexible to fit into modern Australian Culture in my opinion. Have you ever worked under a female boss?

Perhaps this is part of the reason why there is such a negative reaction by Europeans to Muslim immigration. Surely the Quran has plenty of other verses which can be used instead of the current ones interpretations to allow more flexibility coexisting with other civilizations.

Cheers

Response: There are no other verses which allow such a flexibility. Since Allah(swt) is the originator of the universe and life itself and has the authority, it is not Allah(swt) who has to fit into modern times, but rather modern times to fit into the islamic system. The difficult now is that your stance, as well as most non-muslims would be the opposite. And because islam doesn't practice modern culture, it receives negativity. Not because islam is negative, but because islam won't do what modern culture does. Such a logic of non-muslims is wrong, which is the problem. It's like calling you a bad person because you won't wear your beard long as I do. We should start to view things which are negative because they are in fact negative, not because it's not what we want it to be. That's not negativity. That's selfishness. Just because something is different, it doesn't make it negative. By the way, I'm speaking in general. I'm not suggesting you are negative or is the problem. Please don't take it that way.

I have worked under female bosses and I currently work under one. And though they are not muslims, I can recall several of them waiting for my shift to be over, so they can have protection to walk home with, or to their cars or bus stop. One manager was afraid to close by herself unless I was there. I've never in my life heard of a man being in this situation. This is just another example as to why the practices of islam are the way they are. It is to protect the women, not enslave them or treat them unfair. If these practices were unfair, then there wouldn't be women embracing islam for these reasons, as many women here on this forum have.

 

[Tiapan]

Response: There are no other verses which allow such a flexibility. Since Allah(swt) is the originator of the universe and life itself and has the authority, it is not Allah(swt) who has to fit into modern times, but rather modern times to fit into the islamic system. The difficult now is that your stance, as well as most non-muslims would be the opposite. And because islam doesn't practice modern culture, it receives negativity. Not because islam is negative, but because islam won't do what modern culture does. Such a logic of non-muslims is wrong, which is the problem. It's like calling you a bad person because you won't wear your beard long as I do. We should start to view things which are negative because they are in fact negative, not because it's not what we want it to be. That's not negativity. That's selfishness. Just because something is different, it doesn't make it negative. By the way, I'm speaking in general. I'm not suggesting you are negative or is the problem. Please don't take it that way.

I have worked under female bosses and I currently work under one. And though they are not muslims, I can recall several of them waiting for my shift to be over, so they can have protection to walk home with, or to their cars or bus stop. One manager was afraid to close by herself unless I was there. I've never in my life heard of a man being in this situation. This is just another example as to why the practices of islam are the way they are. It is to protect the women, not enslave them or treat them unfair. If these practices were unfair, then there wouldn't be women embracing islam for these reasons, as many women here on this forum have.

I guess you must live in a pretty rough neighborhood, do you have police in that area, or maybe your just good looking. It is good that you can work in an environment where the woman is superior, it shows that you understand that woman can do important work away from the household.

Anyway it seems your belief system ties you to a very rigid, uncompromising, immovable and therefore static position. I guess I like more flexibility and free will in my life, I think most Australians do also.

O ye that believe in Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Peace be upon you brother human.

Cheers

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Men enough please xxx

 

[nawab]

Brother Eslam did explained very well already, it is not convienient for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim but even if a Muslim has married a christian or a jew it doesnt means that the job is done he has to still work on bringing them to islam

today the scholars tell us except if it is a islamic country only then can muslim men marry the Christians and the Jews as thier wives but in western countries dont take this risk.

see you can just go to the threads and know the westerners have stereo typical problems

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Brother Eslam did explained very well already, it is not convienient for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim but even if a Muslim has married a christian or a jew it doesnt means that the job is done he has to still work on bringing them to islam

today the scholars tell us except if it is a islamic country only then can muslim men marry the Christians and the Jews as thier wives but in western countries dont take this risk.

see you can just go to the threads and know the westerners have stereo typical problems

Thank you Nawab for your opinion xxx