Is the US founded on "Christian values" ?

[Me Myself]

Not a US citizen, but I can´t think of a reason why you could say it is founded on christian values more than founded on plain "humanist" values.

I wonder how many of you think it is founded on christian values, and cause of my political and legal ignorance, also wondering if you do have good reasons and I am nuts

So, anxious to hear o.o

Why do you think US is founded on christian values? or why not?

 

[freethinker44]

The founding fathers would have said "no".

 

[F0uad]

No only if Christianity teaches to kill 200million natives and reduce there population to 2%.. Hmm wait a minute i actually do find those stories in the bible.. haha with all respect off-course

 

[Sunstone]

From what I've read, it seems to me the Founders were more influenced in their political thinking by the values of the European Enlightenment, and the values they derived from their practical experience in the colonial legislatures.

 

[Me Myself]

I read a lot that most founding fathers where not christians but theists, detailed explanation anyone? Who was who in both founding and religious beliefs?

Dont say you are not interested in detailing, I mostly read it from here xD.

 

[sojourner]

Is the US founded on "Christian values" ?

Dear God, I hope not! "Christian values" are what put King George the Unwise in office for two insufferable terms, and are what's keeping our dear homosexual friends from becoming married.

 

[F0uad]

I read a lot that most founding fathers where not christians but theists, detailed explanation anyone? Who was who in both founding and religious beliefs?

Dont say you are not interested in detailing, I mostly read it from here xD.

I think they were Masons... there are some fresh topics about masons on the ''Religious section''

 

[Rhizomatic]

Yes, it was. The kind of separation we have between religion and government today (and between religion and public society in general) would have been absolutely unfathomable to the Founding Fathers. While the First Amendment prohibited Congress from establishing a state religion, no such legal protections existed at the state or local level. When the United States was founded, for example, the death penalty was the universal punishment in every state/colony for those convicted of sodomy. Over time this was revised to less harsh laws (such as the forfeiture of all of one's land and property and years of slavery), but it wasn't until 2003 that the Supreme Court declared it universally unconstitutional to outlaw slavery (a decision that was only made possible by subsequent amendments to the Constitution and wild steps of judicial activism). Humanism doesn't advocate enslaving or executing sodomites because God said that sodomy is wrong.

I only draw on sodomy as a single example because it's so contrary to our current sensibilities and because (unlike in England) United States anti-sodomy laws explicitly referenced Christianity as justification, but such examples are pervasive. When the United States was founded Christianity was a powerful, dominant force in the public and private sphere, and its presence in politics and government was similarly pervasive and explicit.

 

[Valjean]

The US was an experiment in humanistic government; a product of the enlightenment, AKA; the age of reason.

 

[Rhizomatic]

I read a lot that most founding fathers where not christians but theists, detailed explanation anyone? Who was who in both founding and religious beliefs?

Dont say you are not interested in detailing, I mostly read it from here xD.

The overwhelming majority of the Founding Fathers were Christians, though there were a decent number of deists who believed that a god created the universe but did not continue to actively govern it. Benjamin Franklin and James Madison were probably the best-known and clearest deists. Jefferson is difficult to classify, since at times he made explicitly Christian statements and at other times he distanced himself from the religion (even going so far as to produce a version of the Bible devoid of supernatural events that described the life and ethical teachings of Jesus Christ). It's probably best to consider him an unorthodox Christian at the most who was generally more of a deist.

 

[HerDotness]

The overwhelming majority of the Founding Fathers were Christians, though there were a decent number of deists who believed that a god created the universe but did not continue to actively govern it. Benjamin Franklin and James Madison were probably the best-known and clearest deists. Jefferson is difficult to classify, since at times he made explicitly Christian statements and at other times he distanced himself from the religion (even going so far as to produce a version of the Bible devoid of supernatural events that described the life and ethical teachings of Jesus Christ). It's probably best to consider him an unorthodox Christian at the most who was generally more of a deist.

John Adams was a Unitarian (believer that God is one and not a trinity) as I recall.

George Washington could well have been a discreet non-believer since even though he accompanied Martha to church regularly, he never joined the Anglican Church which was regarded as practically advertising one's unbelief in his era. See the Mt. Vernon website for an interesting article on what Washington's religious beliefs may (or may not) have been.

 

[gnomon]

Not a US citizen, but I can´t think of a reason why you could say it is founded on christian values more than founded on plain "humanist" values.

I wonder how many of you think it is founded on christian values, and cause of my political and legal ignorance, also wondering if you do have good reasons and I am nuts

So, anxious to hear o.o

Why do you think US is founded on christian values? or why not?

It wasn't.

It focused on Enlightenment principles that ran counter to many of the concepts of the religious and cultural traditions in Europe. A critical response to religious controlled societies as well as ethnically controlled societies. Primarily, the nation was founded on certain concepts of economic liberty.

The colonies were not filled with English running from religious persecution. One of the primary authors of the Constitution for both the U.S. and it's precursor, the Constitution for the State of Virginia, was James Madison who strongly spoke against combining state and church power. He actually explicitly stated a separation of Church and State, the ecclesiastical and the civil, in his writings. That's for the originalists to mull on.

There was some politics involved as well. Many Anglican sympathies resided with the crown. The Anglican Church was the de facto Church of Virginia. If you were a citizen of the Virginia colony you were an Anglican else you would not possess certain rights. Non-Anglicans were actually persecuted. When Virginia became one of the leading colonies for revolution many of the politicians realized they needed to ensure support from Virginians who were not Anglicans. Namely those in the West who had the firearms and the skills to use them. Madison, an Episcopalian, and others knew well the value of religious freedom, both the practice of and freedom from state established religion, in order to consolidate support for independence.

As far as values called out as Christian it's hard to pinpoint some that are not found among multiple cultures and that did not exist prior to the development of Christianity itself.

About the only truth that can be stated regarding the establishment of the U.S. Constitution and the nation with Christianity is that the majority of colonists adhered to some denomination of Christianity. That's about it.

 

[Rhizomatic]

It wasn't.

It focused on Enlightenment principles that ran counter to many of the concepts of the religious and cultural traditions in Europe. A critical response to religious controlled societies as well as ethnically controlled societies. Primarily, the nation was founded on certain concepts of economic liberty.

The colonies were not filled with English running from religious persecution. One of the primary authors of the Constitution for both the U.S. and it's precursor, the Constitution for the State of Virginia, was James Madison who strongly spoke against combining state and church power. He actually explicitly stated a separation of Church and State, the ecclesiastical and the civil, in his writings. That's for the originalists to mull on.

There was some politics involved as well. Many Anglican sympathies resided with the crown. The Anglican Church was the de facto Church of Virginia. If you were a citizen of the Virginia colony you were an Anglican else you would not possess certain rights. Non-Anglicans were actually persecuted. When Virginia became one of the leading colonies for revolution many of the politicians realized they needed to ensure support from Virginians who were not Anglicans. Namely those in the West who had the firearms and the skills to use them. Madison, an Episcopalian, and others knew well the value of religious freedom, both the practice of and freedom from state established religion, in order to consolidate support for independence.

As far as values called out as Christian it's hard to pinpoint some that are not found among multiple cultures and that did not exist prior to the development of Christianity itself.

About the only truth that can be stated regarding the establishment of the U.S. Constitution and the nation with Christianity is that the majority of colonists adhered to some denomination of Christianity. That's about it.

How do you reconcile this with the fact that every state/colony executed sodomites for explicitly-Christian reasons?

 

[fantome profane]

How do you reconcile this with the fact that every state/colony executed sodomites for explicitly-Christian reasons?

But certainly that value existed throughout Europe long before the founding of the United States. I am not sure that just because they inherited certain values means that the United States was founded on those values. It is not like the fought the war of independence over the this.

 

[nnmartin]

isn't it really founded on Pagan values?

 

[Kathryn]

George Washington:
Source - Christianity As An Influence On The Founding Fathers by John A. Sterling

"I now make it my earnest prayer the God would have you and the State over which you preside, in His holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the field; and, finally, that he would be most graciously pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation." June 8, 1783 in a letter to the governors of the states on disbanding the army.

Thomas Jefferson:
Source - America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, ed. William J. Federer, FAME publishing, Inc. 1994
Belief - Episcopalian

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." 1781, Query XVIII of his Notes on that State of Virginia.

"My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others..." April 21, 1803 in a letter to Dr. Benjamin.

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus....I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

James Madison:
Belief - Episcopalian

"Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government." June 20, 1785

"It is not the talking but the walking and working person that is the true Christian." In a manuscript on the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles, Madison makes this statement.

"We have all been encouraged to feel in the guardianship and guidance of that Almighty Being, whose power regulates the destiny of nations." March 4, 1809 Inaugural Address

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

Ben Franklin
Belief - Episcopalian

"Here is my Creed. I believe in on God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

That the most acceptable service we render to Him is in doing good to His other Children. That the soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound Religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever Sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, is the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see." March 9, 1790 in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University

"Heavenly Father, May all revere Thee, And become They dutiful children and faithful subjects. May thy Laws be obeyed on earth as perfectly as they are in Heaven. Provide for us this day as Thou hast hitherto daily done. Forgive us our trespasses, and enable us likewise to forgive those that offended us. Keep us out of temptation and deliver us from Evil." Franklin's own version of the Lord's Prayer

“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” – Constitutional Convention of 1787, original manuscript of this speech

John Adams
Belief - Unitarian

"The Christian religion is above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity. Let the Blackguard Paine say what he will; it is Resignation to God, it is Goodness itself to Man." July 26, 1796, in his diary.

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount contain my religion..." November 4, 1816 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation." December 27, 1816 in a letter to Judge F.A. Van der Kemp.

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. (taken from a letter to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813)
Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion at all!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.

http://www.aproundtable.org/tps30info/beliefs.html

 

[Rhizomatic]

But certainly that value existed throughout Europe long before the founding of the United States. I am not sure that just because they inherited certain values means that the United States was founded on those values. It is not like the fought the war of independence over the this.

Europe, also having its laws modeled on Christianity, criminalized sodomy as well, though the United States was unique in specifically referencing Christianity in its anti-sodomy laws.

My point isn't that the country was founded solely to allow people to continue to persecute sodomites. Rather I was referring to statements like "As far as values called out as Christian it's hard to pinpoint some that are not found among multiple cultures and that did not exist prior to the development of Christianity itself." US law pretty universally was predicated upon Christian values; it's just that these took place at the state/local level rather than the Federal. While many would argue (with merit, I think) that the American Revolution and drafting of the Constitution cannot be properly understood outside of a Christian context, I do agree with you that on a national level we were more primarily founded upon the idea of certain economic/social liberties and attempting to move away from the state religion of Europe. Even given that, the pervasive presence of Christianity in US law seems to indicate rather strongly that Christian values were pivotal and foundational for the country.

In short, Christianity may not have been the core or sole principle upon which the US was founded, but explicitly-Christian values were certainly a driving force in the formation of our society and laws.

Maybe it would be most accurate to say that we were not founded upon Christian values, but when the country was founded Christianity was deeply intertwined into all forms of politics, philosophy, and social life and thus the early US could still accurately be described as a Christian nation?

 

[McBell]

isn't it really founded on Pagan values?

they are talking about the United States, not Christianity.

 

[fantome profane]

I think it would be foolish to deny the influence of Christian values in the founding of the US. But it would be equally foolish to deny that there were other influences such as the enlightenment philosophers. And is is not a coincidence that many of the founding fathers were deists. History is rarely as one dimensional as people would want it to be.


But as interesting as the history is, I feel the need to point out that when we hear arguments like "the US was founded on Christian values therefore ..." are almost always invalid.

 

[Me Myself]

George Washington:
Source - Christianity As An Influence On The Founding Fathers by John A. Sterling

"I now make it my earnest prayer the God would have you and the State over which you preside, in His holy protection, that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served in the field; and, finally, that he would be most graciously pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation." June 8, 1783 in a letter to the governors of the states on disbanding the army.

Thomas Jefferson:
Source - America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations, ed. William J. Federer, FAME publishing, Inc. 1994
Belief - Episcopalian

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." 1781, Query XVIII of his Notes on that State of Virginia.

"My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others..." April 21, 1803 in a letter to Dr. Benjamin.

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus....I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

James Madison:
Belief - Episcopalian

"Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government." June 20, 1785

"It is not the talking but the walking and working person that is the true Christian." In a manuscript on the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles, Madison makes this statement.

"We have all been encouraged to feel in the guardianship and guidance of that Almighty Being, whose power regulates the destiny of nations." March 4, 1809 Inaugural Address

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

Ben Franklin
Belief - Episcopalian

"Here is my Creed. I believe in on God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

That the most acceptable service we render to Him is in doing good to His other Children. That the soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound Religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever Sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, is the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see." March 9, 1790 in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University

"Heavenly Father, May all revere Thee, And become They dutiful children and faithful subjects. May thy Laws be obeyed on earth as perfectly as they are in Heaven. Provide for us this day as Thou hast hitherto daily done. Forgive us our trespasses, and enable us likewise to forgive those that offended us. Keep us out of temptation and deliver us from Evil." Franklin's own version of the Lord's Prayer

“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” – Constitutional Convention of 1787, original manuscript of this speech

John Adams
Belief - Unitarian

"The Christian religion is above all the Religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of Wisdom, Virtue, Equity, and Humanity. Let the Blackguard Paine say what he will; it is Resignation to God, it is Goodness itself to Man." July 26, 1796, in his diary.

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount contain my religion..." November 4, 1816 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation." December 27, 1816 in a letter to Judge F.A. Van der Kemp.

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. (taken from a letter to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813)
Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion at all!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell.

Christianity in the American Revolution - Quotes from Our Founding Fathers on Religion

Ironically, this really doesn´t evidence anything.

I am not asking if it was inspired in christianity, so much if it actually reflects christian values in contrast of the values of other religions.

for example, if you didn´t know the exclamations they put and you just read the laws they made and the constitution, could you discard that maybe they were hinduist, buddists, jews or some other virtuous form of paganism?

What I mean is that it seems to be founded on values that are present in almost any "humanitarian" moral system. The values are not at all exclusive to christianity, not even by the longest shot.