Is the Trinity taught in scripture?

[whatistruth07]

“THOSE honoring me I shall honor,” says God. (1 Samuel 2:30) Does it honor God to call anyone his equal? Does it honor him to call Mary “the mother of God” and the “Mediatrix . . . between the Creator and His creatures,” as does the New Catholic Encyclopedia? No, those ideas insult God. No one is his equal; nor did he have a fleshly mother, since Jesus was not God. And there is no “Mediatrix,” for God has appointed only “one mediator between God and men,” Jesus.—1 Timothy 2:5; 1 John 2:1, 2.

I would be interested to know your views on the subject

 

[Wandered Off]

Coveting honor seems beneath dignity for a deity with no equal.

 

[omari]

“THOSE honoring me I shall honor,” says God. (1 Samuel 2:30) Does it honor God to call anyone his equal? Does it honor him to call Mary “the mother of God” and the “Mediatrix . . . between the Creator and His creatures,” as does the New Catholic Encyclopedia? No, those ideas insult God. No one is his equal; nor did he have a fleshly mother, since Jesus was not God. And there is no “Mediatrix,” for God has appointed only “one mediator between God and men,” Jesus.—1 Timothy 2:5; 1 John 2:1, 2.

I would be interested to know your views on the subject

your facts on the scripture caught my attention, but what i question is why did you close with Jesus. should not we look to God today? did not Jesus finished his mission?

 

[whatistruth07]

Validation of the Law covenant. The apostle Paul says: “Now there is no mediator where only one person is concerned, but God is only one.” (Ga 3:20) In the Law covenant God was one party; the nation of Israel was the other ‘party.’ Because of their sinful condition, the Israelites were unable to approach God in a covenant. They needed a mediator. Their weakness was demonstrated in their request to Moses: “You speak with us, and let us listen; but let not God speak with us for fear we may die.” (Ex 20:19; Heb 12:18-20. Those for Whom Christ Is Mediator. The apostle Paul declares that there is “one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”—for both Jews and Gentiles. (1Ti 2:5, 6) He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. (Heb 8:10-13; 12:24; Eph 5:25-27) Christ became Mediator in order that the ones called “might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance” (Heb 9:15); he assists, not the angels, but “Abraham’s seed.” (Heb 2:16)

 

[Riverwolf]

Scripture is quite clear about there being only one God.

HOWEVER, the concept of this One having multiple parts is implied here and there:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." (Matt 28:19,20)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning." (John 1:1,2)

I'm fairly neutral on the stance; you can go either way and it won't matter.

 

[McBell]

Is the Trinity taught in scripture?

not in the Bible.
As for the Scriptures, I do not know.

 

[whatistruth07]

John 1:1 You cannot be WITH someone and at the same time Be that person. In Koine greek there is no definite article so it could have read and he was A God.

Notice, too, how other translations render this part of the verse:

1808: “and the word was a god.” The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.

1864: “and a god was the word.” The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.

1928: “and the Word was a divine being.” La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.

1935: “and the Word was divine.” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1946: “and of a divine kind was the Word.” Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme.

1950: “and the Word was a god.” New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures.

1958: “and the Word was a God.” The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek.

1975: “and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz.

1978: “and godlike kind was the Logos.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider.

 

[Riverwolf]

John 1:1 You cannot be WITH someone and at the same time Be that person. In Koine greek there is no definite article so it could have read and he was A God.

Right. COULD have. Not necessarily DID.

Now, I notice you quote a lot of translations, but I wonder... most translations are done by committees who have dedicated their lives to studying these languages, and have come up with the closest possible translation to whatever they're trying to convey. Now, someone who has studied ancient Greek extensively has told me that the most accurate word-for-word translation is the Updated New American Standard Version: "...and the Word was God."

Now... how about that verse in Matthiew? I checked the New World Translation just to make sure it was still in there, and lo! it is, virtually unchanged.

EDIT: OH! And if the Word is not God, but still A God, then doesn't that still give God a partner? Especially since scripture is quite clear that there is, and always has been, only ONE God?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I would be interested in your view when the word GODHEAD is used in the NT. I believe that is talking about the trinity.

 

[whatistruth07]

Which scripture in Matthew?

JOHN 1:1 consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

Moses was called elohim, and Satan is refered to as the God of this system of things. It does not refer to them as almighty, as then what would be the use of the Word Almighty if there are 3 persons.

 

[whatistruth07]

Ok I am sorry I see your scripture in Matthew in the previous post.

Matthew 28:19 reads: “Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

Do those verses say that God, Christ, and the holy spirit constitute a Trinitarian Godhead, that the three are equal in substance, power, and eternity? No, they do not, no more than listing three people, such as Tom, Dick, and Harry, means that they are three in one.

This type of reference, admits McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, “proves only that there are the three subjects named, . . . but it does not prove, by itself, that all the three belong necessarily to the divine nature, and possess equal divine honor.”

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Ok I am sorry I see your scripture in Matthew in the previous post.

Matthew 28:19 reads: “Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

Do those verses say that God, Christ, and the holy spirit constitute a Trinitarian Godhead, that the three are equal in substance, power, and eternity? No, they do not, no more than listing three people, such as Tom, Dick, and Harry, means that they are three in one.

This type of reference, admits McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, “proves only that there are the three subjects named, . . . but it does not prove, by itself, that all the three belong necessarily to the divine nature, and possess equal divine honor.”

What about where Jesus says I and the father are one? Or when jesus was arguing with a pharisee about Abraham, and the guy asked Jesus how being only so many years old do you know Abraham, and Jesus replied, before Abraham was I AM.

Please explain that one..

 

[ayani]

the Creator, the Almighty Most High God is certainly there in the Bible. in the beginning He made the heavens and the earth.

the Son, the Messiah, the Mediator between God and men is ceartainly there, Jesus of Nazareth.

the Holy Spirit is certainly there, the Spirit of Truth, given by Messiah to the hearts of believers, to guide, convict, and minister. elsewhere it is called the Spirit of God or the Spirit of Jesus. when we are baptized in the Spirit, we are made new, born again, saved, however one wants to express it. we are converted to Christan faith, and made new in and because of Jesus.

Jesus says that he and the Father are One, and that whoever has seen Him, as has seen God. the Spirit is the very Spirit of the One True God, and the Spirit of Jesus, too. so all three are there, and necesary for Christian life, and all three operate and move via he same will, mind, and holiness.

the only part where i would depart from traditional trinitarian belief is that i would not say that the Spirit is a "third person of a triune Godhead" but rather simply God's Spirit of holiness, truth, and righteousness, given to us through His Son by His grace in response to our faith. God wants us to follow Jesus, and we can not recieve His Spirit apart from Him.

i'm ok with trinitarians, and i'm ok with non-trinitarians. it doesn't bug me that the word "trinity" isn't in the Bile, or that most Christians understand the Holy Spirit to be a divine personage, a He. so long as Jesus is central, and followed, and adored and respected, that is cool. one needn't be a non-trinitarian or a trinitarian to be a follower of Jesus, and baptized with His Spirit.

in addittion, whatistruth, we are called to be witnesses for God's Son, the Messiah. we are called to share His name, His salvation, His love, and His Person with the peoples of the world. the people of Israel were called to be Yah's witnesses, witnesses and ambassadors of the One True God. yet believers in Messiah are called to be witnesses for Jesus Christ, and through Him, witnesses for God, too. for if we are Jesus' witnesses, we are God's witnesses, too (Matthew 10:40).

it is the Son of God who saves us and makes us new, through His reconciling death, grace, Living Person, and ability to bridge our humanity and God's holiness. in this age, God has chosen to make Himself known in and through Christ, and according to 1 John 2:23 no one who denies God's Son truly has God, either.

so Christ Jesus should be central in our lives. and because of Him, through Him, God becomes central to us, as we love God in, through, and because of the Lord.

 

[whatistruth07]

At John 17:21, 22, he prayed to God that his disciples “may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, . . . that they may be one just as we are one.” Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were.—See also 1 Corinthians 1:10.

At 1 Corinthians 3:6, 8, Paul says: “I planted, Apollos watered . . . He that plants and he that waters are one.” Paul did not mean that he and Apollos were two persons in one; he meant that they were unified in purpose. The Greek word that Paul used here for “one” (hen) is neuter, literally “one (thing),” indicating oneness in cooperation. It is the same word that Jesus used at John 10:30 to describe his relationship with his Father. It is also the same word that Jesus used at John 17:21, 22. So when he used the word “one” (hen) in these cases, he was talking about unity of thought and purpose.
Right in the context of the verses after John 10:30, Jesus forcefully argued that his words were not a claim to be God. He asked the Jews who wrongly drew that conclusion and wanted to stone him: “Why do you charge me with blasphemy because I, consecrated and sent into the world by the Father, said, ‘I am God’s son’?” (John 10:31-36, NE) No, Jesus claimed that he was, not God the Son, but the Son of God.

I AM

AT JOHN 8:58 a number of translations, for instance The Jerusalem Bible, have Jesus saying: “Before Abraham ever was, I Am.” Was Jesus there teaching, as Trinitarians assert, that he was known by the title “I Am”? And, as they claim, does this mean that he was Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures, since the King James Version at Exodus 3:14 states: “God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM”?

At Exodus 3:14 (KJ) the phrase “I AM” is used as a title for God to indicate that he really existed and would do what he promised. The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, says of the phrase: “To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, ‘Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.’ Most moderns follow Rashi [a French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering [Exodus 3:14] ‘I will be what I will be.’”

The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or a title but as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other Bible versions render John 8:58:

1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.

1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.

1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.

1984: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14.

Again, the context shows this to be the correct understanding. This time the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to “have seen Abraham” although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old. (Verse 57) Jesus’ natural response was to tell the truth about his age. So he naturally told them that he “was alive before Abraham was born!”—The Simple English Bible. See also Col 1:15

 

[Just_me_Mike]

WHATISTRUTH, are you answering my questions? I almost feel you are ignoring me?

 

[Bishadi]

“THOSE honoring me I shall honor,” says God. (1 Samuel 2:30) Does it honor God to call anyone his equal?

what does this mean

Gen 3: 22And Jehovah God saith, `Lo, the man was as one of Us, as to the knowledge of good and evil; and now, lest he send forth his hand, and have taken also of the tree of life, and eaten, and lived to the age,' --

No one is his equal; nor did he have a fleshly mother, since Jesus was not God. And there is no “Mediatrix,” for God has appointed only “one mediator between God and men,” Jesus.—1 Timothy 2:5; 1 John 2:1, 2.

I would be interested to know your views on the subject

The who is Moses? Abraham?

ANd what did Jesus mean by this

John 14 15`If ye love me, my commands keep,


16and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age;
17the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it doth not behold him, nor know him, and ye know him, because he doth remain with you, and shall be in you.


Not sure what your OP has to do with the trinity (mass, energy, time) but i answered your questions and asked a couple more

 

[whatistruth07]

Twillend you asked the question regarding JOHN 10:30 Where Jesus said I and the father are one. I answered that question

I also answered the question regarding the I AM.

If you have any more questions then I will answer them. I am on a different time zone so I might not answer straight away.

It also helps to know how people view the Trinity as not all believe it as it is set down in the Athanasian Creed:

Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: ‘the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.’ In this Trinity . . . the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.”—The Catholic Encyclopedia.

Is this what you believe?

regards

Whatistruth07

 

[whatistruth07]

Ayani,
TIME and again, Jesus made statements such as: “The Son cannot do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his Father doing.” (John 5:19, The Holy Bible, by Monsignor R. A. Knox) “I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 6:38) “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.” (John 7:16) Is not the sender superior to the one sent?

This relationship is evident in Jesus’ illustration of the vineyard. He likened God, his Father, to the owner of the vineyard, who traveled abroad and left it in the charge of cultivators, who represented the Jewish clergy. When the owner later sent a slave to get some of the fruit of the vineyard, the cultivators beat the slave and sent him away empty-handed. Then the owner sent a second slave, and later a third, both of whom got the same treatment. Finally, the owner said: “I will send my son [Jesus] the beloved. Likely they will respect this one.” But the corrupt cultivators said: “‘This is the heir; let us kill him, that the inheritance may become ours.’ With that they threw him outside the vineyard and killed him.” (Luke 20:9-16) Thus Jesus illustrated his own position as one being sent by God to do God’s will, just as a father sends a submissive son.

The followers of Jesus always viewed him as a submissive servant of God, not as God’s equal. They prayed to God about “thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, . . . and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus.”—Acts 4:23, 27, 30, RS, Catholic edition.

After Jesus died, he was in the tomb for parts of three days. If he were God, then Habakkuk 1:12 is wrong when it says: “O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.” But the Bible says that Jesus did die and was unconscious in the tomb. And who resurrected Jesus from the dead? If he was truly dead, he could not have resurrected himself. On the other hand, if he was not really dead, his pretended death would not have paid the ransom price for Adam’s sin. But he did pay that price in full by his genuine death. So it was “God [who] resurrected [Jesus] by loosing the pangs of death.” (Acts 2:24) The superior, God Almighty, raised the lesser, his servant Jesus, from the dead.

If the Trinity is true, it is degrading to Jesus to say that he was never equal to God as part of a Godhead. But if the Trinity is false, it is degrading to Almighty God to call anyone his equal, and even worse to call Mary the “Mother of God.” If the Trinity is false, it dishonors God to say, as noted in the book Catholicism: “Unless [people] keep this Faith whole and undefiled, without doubt [they] shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this: we worship one God in Trinity.

The Bible clearly indicates, however, that our worship—in the sense of religious reverence and devotion—must be addressed solely to God. Moses described him as “a God exacting exclusive devotion.” And the Bible exhorts us to “worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.”—Deuteronomy 4:24; Revelation 14:7.

Jesus certainly occupies a pivotal role in true worship, one worthy of honor and respect. (2 Corinthians 1:20, 21; 1 Timothy 2:5) He is the only way through which we are able to approach Jehovah God. (John 14:6) Accordingly, true Christians do well to direct their worship only to Jehovah God, the Almighty.

 

[Enoch07]

John 14:9 Jesus said to him " Have I been with you so long, yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who see Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father?"

Jesus said it himself. If you have seen Him (Jesus) you have seen the Father (God).

Lets read further.

John 14:10 Jesus speaking: "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

John 14:11 Jesus speaking: "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

Case closed far as I am concerned.

 

[McBell]

Case closed far as I am concerned.

Classic textbook example of ratification.