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Featured Is the PAST determined?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Polymath257, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Whether or not *I* can change it, is it possible for there to be more than one possible past?
     
  2. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    No
     
  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Not likely, because the distinction between the past, present and future is an illusion.
     
  4. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Why do you think this?

    For example, do you think there is an actual answer to the question of how much Julius' Ceasar's last drink weighed? Or are there several possible answers to that question that are equally correct?
     
  5. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    There could be a million possible answers but, there is ONLY one correct answer.
     
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  6. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    There is no evidence that we can reverse the time arrow, . . . yet.

    The degree of control of the present and future is marginable, with only limited ability to change things by our own will.
     
    #26 shunyadragon, Aug 13, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Are you familiar with E8? I'm not but trying to grasp the idea.

    An 8 dimensional universe which exists that we perceive 3/4 dimensionally. Like if you take a cube and hold it up to the light and project the image onto a flat surface. All we would observe would be the shadow of the cube, not the entire cube. Depending on the rotation of the cube the shadow could appear as many different 2D dimensional shapes.

    Some have the idea that the past, present and future exist simultaneously. Time being one of these dimensions. So what we perceive as the passage of time is like the rotation of the cube. We see the universe changing but what we are perceiving is a "shadow" of the universe. Nothing is actually changing except the rotation of how we perceive the universe.

    So the universe is determined, actually unchanging. It is our perception of it that is changing.

    If we could exactly reverse our sequence of perceptions of the universe, I suppose we could perceive the exact universe/shadow that we perceive x number of perceptions before. Or perhaps there exists an infinite numbers of pasts that could be perceived.

    The exact "shadow" of the universe that we perceive before still exists, exists now, but there is no way to say with any certainty that we would ever be able to perceive that exact same "shadow" of the universe that we did before.
     
  8. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Why do you think that is true? Why cannot there be more than one?
     
  9. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I'm not wanting a reversal of the arrow of time. I am asking whether there can be more than one past.
     
  10. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Yes, modeling spacetime as a single manifold is pretty standard now. But we allow for a probability distribution for events in the future. Why not also the past?
     
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  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    The problem is the same with the present and future, and without going out on a limb of the highly hypothetical the evidence indicates only one time arrow.
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    There is no practical way to test this possibility. At present based on our knowledge there is only one time arrow.
     
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  13. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    But that is as true of the past as it is of the future. But we allow for the possibility of there being more than one possible future.
     
  14. Earthtank

    Earthtank Member

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    Because by its very own definition there can only be 1 truth
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    No, not true of the future, because of the indetrminancy of the present and future time arrow events including the limited influence humans have on present and future events. We are basically in the flow of time
     
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    By the very definition fallible humans cannot know the one truth.
     
  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    And why is the truth that there is only one past? We allow for there to be more than one location, after all.
     
  18. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I suppose the question would be how do we prove a multidimensional universe?

    Otherwise the only thing going for it is that it provides an elegant explanation for many of the phenomenon we do observe.
     
  19. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    You cannot travel back into the past, past your birth date, you simply cease to exist.
     
  20. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Depends on where you travel back. If you travel fast away from Earth and our galaxy and from every light photon so that you're no longer interacting with the same photons, then you can travel to the past somewhere else, theoretically. It will be so far from Earth that you will never be able to interfere with your past here. Its not convenient in any way except that you could start over somewhere else with younger stars.
     
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