Holy painfull logic alert friends .. Who is doing the seeing and can't be seen by who ? and did you really think that a cloud passing makes the sun cease to exist ? .. Ouch .. it hurts .. !?
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Is it possible that Christianity is true, yet the Bible contains errors?
- Thread starter vulcanlogician
- Start date
Holy painfull logic alert friends .. Who is doing the seeing and can't be seen by who ? and did you really think that a cloud passing makes the sun cease to exist ? .. Ouch .. it hurts .. !?
I put together a survey of biblical cosmology that may interest you. It's basically the cosmology of Babylon, and it's what they thought was the case back then, before any concept of heliocentry, gravity, orbits, satellites, planets, deep space, stars, galaxies ... but then, in another three thousand years our cosmology may look rather primitive too.
You can check it out >here< if you wish.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. The problem here is that the flat earth interpretation doesn't work because of translation issues.
And Elohim said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Genesis 1:20
Both 'above' and 'in the open' are translations of על which means above or upon.
Please explain why do you think there is an error?
I think we need one example to see how it goes.
The flat earth was the general view until the end of the middle ages, even if one or two wise old Greeks had thought it round in the past.
I'm certainly not aware of any cosmology from three thousand years ago that thought the world was spherical. None of those quotes on that link suggest anything but a flat earth. To them the earth was immovably fixed at the center of creation and the sun, moon and stars went round it. And you could have a Noah's flood, because afterwards all the extra water would flow off over the edges.
And the sky was the firmament, a hard dome that you could walk on and to which the stars were attached such that if they come loose they'll fall to earth. There was no concept of heliocentry, gravity, orbits, satellites, planets, deep space, stars or galaxies.
Galileo in the 17th century was accused of the heresy of heliocentry. He denied (not altogether truthfully, I suspect) that it had never crossed his mind.
But the gods of Mesopotamia, those of the Sumerians and those of the (Semitic) Akkadians and in due course Babylonians, were in place long before Yahweh appeared on the scene around 1500 BCE. The science of the (Semitic) Canaanites, including the Hebrews, would have been basically Mesopotamian. Indeed they got their Noah's flood story from the lore of Mesopotamia. It's mentioned in the Bilgames / Gilgamesh stories, for instance. If I recall correctly, a Sumerian impress seal from 2500 BCE or earlier carries an image of Ziasudra, the Noah character.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe some people just trump up their readings while it is possible some are receiving from an evil spirit. I do all my readings by the Holy Spirit but other Christians don't believe that is possible.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe Christianity is defined by the body of believers at least when they are acting with help from the Holy Spirit.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe one deception does not make a person a liar. To be a liar the person must practice lying.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
The first one does, if you have a telescope and can see that the planets appear to be round. It comes down to a misunderstanding of how the firmament relates to heaven and earth.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
For the myths of Genesis to be true God would have had to have lied endlessly, not just once. Even worse you should have a higher standard for God to follow, not a lower one.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Have we gone over when Jesus was born?
You're wishing things onto the text instead of understanding the times when the words were written, Indeed, it was such misunderstandings that got me to put together that list of bible quotes I linked. Our science is descended from Greek culture, to some extent via Rome, but not from the bible.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
No, I'm not.
cataway
Well-Known Member
acts 5:30''The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree''. in other words a pole ,the trunk of a tree. other bibles will say cross. which ones are correct ?
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I fear we may disagree on that point. I backed what I said with known history and relevant biblical quotes that accord with that known history.
I see there nothing shameful to the authors of those quotes. Their understanding was the understanding of their time and place. The same is true of us with our present understanding.
The word in the Greek text is ξύλων (xulon, old style xylon (eg as in xylophone) for which I find the following definition ─
- wood
- that which is made of wood
- as a beam from which any one is suspended, a gibbet, a cross
- a log or timber with holes in which the feet, hands, neck of prisoners were inserted and fastened with thongs
- a fetter, or shackle for the feet
- a cudgel, stick, staff
- that which is made of wood
- a tree
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Do you have any facts to support that?
You have the facts already, in the bible, as I showed you.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
When did you do that?