Is it God's will when children are raped tortured, and murdered?

[Spiderman]

Who's fault is it we have a godless society based on animal pursuits and selfish ambition? Who's fault is it we never hear anything about God or virtues or character building in the television or media or news? Who's fault is it that all the focus is on the physical pleasures? Who has chosen this path man or God!

What does God say about the way we should treat children? What does God teach us? What does God say in His Holy Books how we should act? Who obeys God or even considers Him or His Words relevant anymore?

Then why are we crying and complaining if, after having turned away from godliness and towards waywardness and disbelief that our world would not be rosy anymore but like a hell on earth?

We made this bed against God's wishes. We have to lie in it now and pay the penalty for our choices. If we made good choices these things would never be heard of but we made a choice to turn away from God on a whole so what do we expect?

A godly society comes from following God's ways. An ungodly society is a result of turning away from His exhortations and teachings.

We want to be selfish, greedy. Lustful, hateful, spiteful and warring yet want to see heaven on earth??? Doesn't add up. You get what you pay for. For excessive materialistic this is the kind of society we get. For a spiritually based society we would get a wonderful society where none of these things happen.

God gave us the choice so the ball is in OUR court not His. Of course, those who have been mistreated or abused unjustly will be compensated for by God because He has chosen to allow us to have free will but the call is ours.

Actually, without a doubt, there were many times I screwd up royally when I was putting God first in all things and spending practically all my free time in prayer and studying the sacred writings.

The ways I screwd up were due to confusion primarily, which was a direct result of God not giving the enlightenment and virtues I prayed for thousands of times.

Look at how divided people are who seek God. God refuses to enlighten them or give them understanding, so that is the primary cause of the confusion.

Many people who dedicate their lives to prayer, fasting , and seeking the truth, come to opposite conclusions that they both 100% believe are correct.

Absolutely God wants them to be confused (or God isn't able to give the grace because he isn't omnipotent ) and all the consequences that come forth from a confused world,

because the only way they wouldn't be confused is if God chose to properly guide enlighten , and speak clearly to them ( as they were praying all their lives for. )

The understanding I have, I believe to be correct... I prayed for years for understanding (first and foremost, the understanding needed to do his will ) ....

so, if I'm confused on this issue it is absolutely because A) he wants me to be confused, or B) he isn't capable of giving people understanding

Which one is it?

 

[Spiderman]

All ya need do is google a question and get lot's of information.
http://www.riverpower.org/answers/why_does_God_allow_evil.htm
Lots of other sites that give a Bible correct answer.
Too wordy for me to post it all here.

The Bible confirms my point.
so, if I'm confused on this issue it is absolutely because A) he wants me to be confused, or B) he isn't capable of giving people understanding

I'm going with A. And no, I don't want to be confused.... I want to have the mind and heart of Christ to be his obedient instrument in all things. Been praying for it and hoping for it persistently and daily for years now.

Whatever confusion I have is in proportion to how much God answered my prayers for understanding and how much God wants me to be confused.

I'm completely convinced he wants me to believe all this.

Also, if a person reads, doesn't understand, or misinterprets the Bible, they are not at fault for God choosing to only give a small percentage of people the ability to properly interpret Scripture.

(and yes, the majority of Christians do not know how to properly interpret the book, because 2,000 years of studying it and look how divided we are.... We are far more dogmatically divided and fragmented now than we were 1500 years ago. )

God decides what's right or wrong. If you give a monster permission to harm your children, it is the right thing to do (if you are God) therefore I'm not blaming God for doing wrong.

Also, Satan is only the God of this world to the extent that God allows him to be and as long as God wants him to be. Which means, God wants him at this time to be God of this world. Since God wants him to be god of this world for now, God is responsible for what he does to the world.

If you give your rebellious, hedonistic, mischievous step-son your house, Lexus, credit card, and bank account, knowing what he will do with it, you are responsible for enabling him, empowering him, and asking for it.

 

[jeager106]

I don't think "God", any "god" wants confusions.
Confusion is in th eye of the beholder.
Er, ah, sum thin like dat.

 

[RedStorm]

I think conflict. I think it allows us to develop the way we do, the way we are now evil is a requirement

The problem is that if you believe in a God that is the creator of the universe and everything in it, than are perspective and logic is one slice of reality in a thousand other possibilities.

 

[Katzpur]

Sorry.

Thanks.

 

[Skwim]

You assume that God should prevent the terrible harm done to children but make no mention of God's wrath against those who are sexually immoral, those who harm and kill others in war, and who commit all manner of what is evil in God's eyes.

There was no assumption on my part at all, other than that I assume the characteristics of god that Christians claim for him are true. There was absolutely no "should" in my comment at all, only the logical conclusion of his character. Stop trying to reconstruct my remark into something it's not (although we both know why you're doing so).

But now I will reprove you, And I will state my case against you. Please consider this, you who forget God,So that I may not tear you to pieces with no one to rescue you."

I believe God has a day and hour to end wickedness forever, and he will not be dictated to as to when and how he does so. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9) Rather than to blame God for the wickedness of mankind, I think it is better to gain knowledge of God, and the reasons he has temporarily tolerated wickedness; wickedness that he abhors.

THIS is suppose to be a reproval? Sorry but your polemic does nothing of the sort. It doesn't even get close to touching my argument. So, how about simply addressing it as I asked?

Q. "Is it God's will when children are raped tortured, and murdered?"

A. In as much as god is aware of such acts (he's omniscient) and could stop them if he wished (he's omnipotent) but chooses not to (evinced by the fact that they happen), it's obviously it's his will that they take place.

So yes, it is god's will that children are raped, tortured, and murdered.
If I've made some mistake in my argument here please point it out. If you can't then I assume it's correct, and because, as you say, "It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, For the Almighty to do wrong" the implication is that you believe that god's will that children are raped, tortured, and murdered is not wrong, but right.


​

As it stands, you have not pointed out any mistake in my argument so I am assuming it's correct: You agree that It is god's will that children are raped, tortured, and murdered, and furthermore, you believe that god's will that children are raped, tortured, and murdered is not wrong, but right.

Thanks for your confirmation here, a surprising one to be sure, but I understand your dilemma and can do no differently.


.

 

[Acim]

Then how come His followers die? I don't mean why do "sinners" die, but why do people cleansed in Jesus' blood die?

Because the physical is unreal. The epitome of the physical, world of separation, is to appear separate from Creator of Life, Home of Eternal Life. The idea that you are/we are in a space where life virtually requires an adjective (eternal) to be understood as it is, tells you/us that we are in an inherently illogical existence. The good news for what I'm presenting is that there are only about 999 ways to make the insanity of this place well known, even if not well understood.

 

[1robin]

You totally missed what I said... Enlightening your child with instincts to not get in the car with that murderer or telling someone to get up and flee as did god tell Joseph and Mary is no violation of free will whatsoever...

I did get what you said, I even expanded what you said into it's proper size. You are merely taking a single and extreme example of a category of claims that must be dealt with. It is so often examined in this manner that it has been described in philosophical realms of thought as the problem of evil. Anything said about one kind or example of evil and God can be said about the entire moral category commonly referred to as evil. IOW what you demand about one example must hold about all examples of evil. If God is going to gratify your wish concerning the rape of children or their torture must hold for any example of evil anyone can name. Maybe I demand that God always inform me if I am going to have a wreck so I can go another direction, maybe my friend demands that God always make sure his girlfriend is never sick. Anyone demanding God prevent their pet evil is just as justified as you think you are to demand God take responsibility for or prevent all requests where any type evil is called out. God cannot do that for everyone without short circuiting both God's and our will by at the minimum coercing us.

Also, I invoke the blood of Jesus, believe that he died for my sins, Rose from the dead, make all my prayers and blessings in his name, desire to do only his will and nothing but his will, desire wisdom, understanding, and strength to carry out his will above all things, and precisely the understanding that you see me having from these threads is the understanding that Christ has given me.

If he wanted me to see things differently, then I would, for I sincerely begged him with all my heart for understanding (especially the understanding needed to serve and obey him ).

If im confused, it is because he wants me confused... Pure and simple... Or perhaps.... I'm figuring out the obvious... Before he formed some of his children in the womb, he knew in advance they would be victimized and (like with his son Jesus ) wanted it to happen!

I cannot access whether Christ has told you anything. I can point out that what you claim is non-biblical. God is not the author of your or anyone's confusion. The bible emphatically states other wise. Since your being so stubborn I am going to deal with your argument the way a doctor of philosophy would. This is the official conclusion of many who are philosophers of religion and sit the boards of several top line universities.

It is very possible (my own case any anyone's who has witnessed to me has come to faith after suffering or witnessing evil and destructive events) that evil is necessary to wake us up to it's existence and cost. Precious few people would ever seek refuge in God were he to magically stop every evil event from occurring. Is he supposed to stop death it's self? It is the greatest evil possible and one of the greatest motivations to accept Christ and be born again. What happened after events like 9/11? Church attendance went up. Even a hardened atheist may let a little light into their soul as a preacher speaks at a funeral. So it is a very sound argument that evil is necessary to bring a wayward race to faith in God. AS stated it was some of the most tragic events possible that brought me to faith in Christ. So some evil is necessary to drive us to faith in God. To carry your point you must show that less evil can exist on the earth and that at least the same number or greater number of people would still come to know God. It could be that God is using me to cut through your confusion.

Regardless the above requirement is necessary to carry your point through and you cannot possibly supply that requirement and must cease and desist from your claims and all such claims of that kind. I did not want to trot out this checkmate requirement but your attached at the him to a self destructive position that I had to.

Twice as many people in this threads poll agree with me that you. Does that carry any weight?

 

[Acim]

The Bible confirms my point.
so, if I'm confused on this issue it is absolutely because A) he wants me to be confused, or B) he isn't capable of giving people understanding

I'm going with A. And no, I don't want to be confused.... I want to have the mind and heart of Christ to be his obedient instrument in all things. Been praying for it and hoping for it persistently and daily for years now.

Whatever confusion I have is in proportion to how much God answered my prayers for understanding and how much God wants me to be confused.

If you actually understand that you could be confused, you can't really be all that confused.
Unless, ya know, you were being a little dishonest with your own self.

God's Will does not support a world of separation. It is literally without a(n actual) Cause, and yet it sure as heck appears to exist. How could that be? If I have a night dream and there are things within the dream world that I do not understand, confuse me, and even upon waking I do not understand how they got 'there,' do I then think someone else, something else put them there?? Do, I play that game with myself hoping my own (wakeful) self doesn't notice the game I am playing? The make-believe about manifestations I am convinced are 'my experience' are also not my doing??

I'm completely convinced he wants me to believe all this.

Do you not (acutely) understand that you have given all meaning that this world, it's manifestations, has for you? That 'children,' 'sexual assault,' 'torture' and 'killed' are all conceptual understandings (really judgments) that you give all meaning, and power, they have for you, by you?

Do you not understand that this is your own will for 'you/us' that rests on faith in a world of separation (from God, and from other selves that are in Reality, you/me/us)?

God's Will as revealed (many times) is Love. 2 greatest commandments: 1) love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind; 2) love thy neighbour as thyself

Updated version, saying virtually the same thing in other words: teach only Love for that is what You are.

 

[Spiderman]

I did get what you said, I even expanded what you said into it's proper size. You are merely taking a single and extreme example of a category of claims that must be dealt with. It is so often examined in this manner that it has been described in philosophical realms of thought as the problem of evil. Anything said about one kind or example of evil and God can be said about the entire moral category commonly referred to as evil. IOW what you demand about one example must hold about all examples of evil. If God is going to gratify your wish concerning the rape of children or their torture must hold for any example of evil anyone can name. Maybe I demand that God always inform me if I am going to have a wreck so I can go another direction, maybe my friend demands that God always make sure his girlfriend is never sick. Anyone demanding God prevent their pet evil is just as justified as you think you are to demand God take responsibility for or prevent all requests where any type evil is called out. God cannot do that for everyone without short circuiting both God's and our will by at the minimum coercing us.

I cannot access whether Christ has told you anything. I can point out that what you claim is non-biblical. God is not the author of your or anyone's confusion. The bible emphatically states other wise. Since your being so stubborn I am going to deal with your argument the way a doctor of philosophy would. This is the official conclusion of many who are philosophers of religion and sit the boards of several top line universities.

It is very possible (my own case any anyone's who has witnessed to me has come to faith after suffering or witnessing evil and destructive events) that evil is necessary to wake us up to it's existence and cost. Precious few people would ever seek refuge in God were he to magically stop every evil event from occurring. Is he supposed to stop death it's self? It is the greatest evil possible and one of the greatest motivations to accept Christ and be born again. What happened after events like 9/11? Church attendance went up. Even a hardened atheist may let a little light into their soul as a preacher speaks at a funeral. So it is a very sound argument that evil is necessary to bring a wayward race to faith in God. AS stated it was some of the most tragic events possible that brought me to faith in Christ. So some evil is necessary to drive us to faith in God. To carry your point you must show that less evil can exist on the earth and that at least the same number or greater number of people would still come to know God. It could be that God is using me to cut through your confusion.

Regardless the above requirement is necessary to carry your point through and you cannot possibly supply that requirement and must cease and desist from your claims and all such claims of that kind. I did not want to trot out this checkmate requirement but your attached at the him to a self destructive position that I had to.

Twice as many people in this threads poll agree with me that you. Does that carry any weight?

The votes don't carry much weight for a number of reasons.... Some people put God in their morality box so that God would not do what they considered to be morally wrong.

Also, you dodged many of my questions so if anyone is in checkmate it's you. If your babysitter gives someone they aren't scared of permission to kill your children, do you believe that they don't want any harm done to your children? Yes or No, simple question that can be answered in one word. If you can't answer that question you've lost the argument

Also, you confirmed the point I made. God wants the evil to happen for the greater good. Thanks

People vote no because they don't want to believe a God would potentially want them to be tortured to death as God wanted to happen to his son.

Hence, people create a God whose behavior jives with their conscience. However, the Bible shows plenty of examples where God is a military Dictator commiting genocide. People who voted no, don't believe in the Bible or they are simply in obvious denial.

 

[Spiderman]

@acm

I know that I am not all-knowing, and as long as someone isn't all -knowing they should be open to the possibility they are confused, so till the day I die I'll be open to the fact that I could be wrong, but I'm only as confused as God wants me to be.

Maybe God is not who I think he is and maybe he's not in control. But the idea that he doesn't want innocent people murdered from a Biblical perspective seems completely preposterous to me and void of all rational thought.

@1robin
Your foundation is completely irrational.

In the Old Testament, God drowned and destroyed with fire, brimstone, and swords, innocent babies and children who were without sin... He also killed the first born of Egypt because of pharaohs decision, and those children didn't have anything to do with his decision.

That would be like killing the first born of all Americans because Obama approves of gay marriage...then prior to that God hardens his heart so he wouldn't let them go.

Was it a bad thing!? No, because God is right in all of his ways and justified in his sight (whether I think it's right or not. )

So, your premise that god gets to drown, burn, and order people to annahilate women and children with the sword, but that it's not his will innocent children get tortured and killed is such an irrational premise (assuming you as a Baptist believe in the Bible) I have a hard time believing I'm talking to an adult...

I'm 29 BTW.... Please tell me you aren't older than me while making such an argument that the god who burns, drowns, maims, and orders people to hack apart kids in scripture is a God who doesnt will some of his children to be tortured and killed.

I could have seen how irrational such a premise is when I was in the first grade.

 

[1robin]

The votes don't carry much weight for a number of reasons.... Some people put God in their morality box so that God would not do what they considered to be morally wrong.

Well in this case the majority of people are putting God into a biblical shaped box which you are rejecting and even crediting Christ with your confusion. In most cases I would dismiss popularity claims but in this one it seems appropriate.

Also, you dodged many of my questions so if anyone is in checkmate it's you. If your babysitter gives someone they aren't scared of permission to kill your children, do you believe that they don't want any harm done to your children? Yes or No, simple question that can be answered in one word. If you can't answer that question you've lost the argument

Most of your claims are unbiblical, lack any evidence, and are purely a function of merely your opinion. If Christianity teaches Christians anything it is that our opinions are to be subordinated to biblical truth and clarity. Let me ask you something. Forget denominations, why do you think you are a Christian?

Also, you confirmed the point I made. God wants the evil to happen for the greater good. Thanks

Actually this is properly stated as God having moral justification for allowing evil. I can't imagine how you have any problem if this is accepted. You may not like it emotionally (which I have covered), but you have no rational or philosophic reason to condemn that which you accept.

People vote no because they don't want to believe a God would potentially want them to be tortured to death as God wanted to happen to his son.

I do not believe that. I believe God reluctantly allows (he does not cause or like) evil to occur as in the end we benefit from it because our rebellion necessitates it occurring. How many would believe that evil exists or that it is undesirable unless God allows it to exist and we pay a massive price for it? I cannot imagine a world (or my having faith in God in that type of word) in which God comes flying down to head of every evil action that occurs.

Hence, people create a God whose behavior jives with their conscience. However, the Bible shows plenty of examples where God is a military Dictator commiting genocide. People who voted no, don't believe in the Bible or they are simply in obvious denial.

Humans are morally bankrupt, if we made God in our image he would not have saved us all from ourselves. One group would have made a God which condemned all other groups, and vice versa, not a God which paid the entire price to save all Groups that would merely believe. God promised eternal justice to anyone that would merely believe in the sacrifice that he alone bore for us. I do not see any manmade box that that God would fit in.

BTW: What's the story behind that flag thing?

 

[Spiderman]

Well in this case the majority of people are putting God into a biblical shaped box which you are rejecting and even crediting Christ with your confusion. In most cases I would dismiss popularity claims but in this one it seems appropriate.

Most of your claims are unbiblical, lack any evidence, and are purely a function of merely your opinion. If Christianity teaches Christians anything it is that our opinions are to be subordinated to biblical truth and clarity. Let me ask you something. Forget denominations, why do you think you are a Christian?

Actually this is properly stated as God having moral justification for allowing evil. I can't imagine how you have any problem if this is accepted. You may not like it emotionally (which I have covered), but you have no rational or philosophic reason to condemn that which you accept.

I do not believe that. I believe God reluctantly allows (he does not cause or like) evil to occur as in the end we benefit from it because our rebellion necessitates it occurring. How many would believe that evil exists or that it is undesirable unless God allows it to exist and we pay a massive price for it? I cannot imagine a world (or my having faith in God in that type of word) in which God comes flying down to head of every evil action that occurs.

Humans are morally bankrupt, if we made God in our image he would not have saved us all from ourselves. One group would have made a God which condemned all other groups, and vice versa, not a God which paid the entire price to save all Groups that would merely believe. God promised eternal justice to anyone that would merely believe in the sacrifice that he alone bore for us. I do not see any manmade box that that God would fit in.

BTW: What's the story behind that flag thing?

It is the flag of the guy in the avatar....

You once again dodged my question which was simple, to the point, and a yes or no answer. In fact you have dodged many questions and ignored much of my post.

God drowned innocent babies, women, kids, burned them, ordered them to be hacked up by israelites, killed the first born of Egypt who had nothing to do with Pharaoh or his sin.

Like killing all first born Americans for the President's hard -heartedness... I'm a Christian by my definition of Christianity, in that I like what Jesus taught about charity, forgiveness, love those hardest to love, be humble.

I'm a Christian to the extent that I constantly petition in Jesus name, bless in Jesus name, ask Jesus to come into my heart and make me his obedient instrument, pray always that I do his will...

But the difference between me and you is I admit the obvious. My Dad killed a lot of people (many of them women, children, and babies ), gives the wolf permission to tear apart his sheep, wanted his son stripped down naked before the eyes of everybody to be shamed and humiliated, whipped , beaten, lacerated, spit upon, mocked, crowned with thorns, crucified, and pierced with a lance.

It was premeditated thousands of years in advance... It's how he wanted his son to be glorified and atone for sin (but God could forgive us without having his kid humiliated, tortured, mutilated, and murdered...but that was God's preferance....blessed be God and his decision ).

However, the name Israel means "contender" (fighter / adversary ) with God. If Moses didn't fight God and tell God his decision was wrong and irrational, God would have destroyed Israel. It says instead "God repented ".

God wants us hot or cold. If something Dad is doing goes against my conscience I think he wants me to fight.... How can I be wrong for hating what I find sick, cruel, and disgusting?

Speaking of God liking those who contend with him... I used to purposely buy the meanest, creepiest turantulas (not sold at most pet shops )

But I realized they might not have been having fun and it was cruel, so I stopped... But I wanted the scariest most aggressive ones that would fight... Sometimes God is the same way , chronically testing people, annoying them, afflicting them, and getting them ticked off. ...

But I'm praying my narcissistic cruel Dad will change , but I still accept him the way he is and will love and serve him even if it looks to me like he's a jerk.... Afterall, as you can see from the video, I like monsters

 

[1robin]

Your foundation is completely irrational.

What foundation is that, other than the bible? At this point I think you may very well be claiming the bible is irrational as well as God, though what you deny is not exactly the actual bible but instead a bible you have invented as we will se below. You seem to hate the very thing you claim to have accepted. You

In the Old Testament, God drowned and destroyed with fire, brimstone, and swords, innocent babies and children who were without sin... He also killed the first born of Egypt because of pharaohs decision, and those children didn't have anything to do with his decision.

Man has received honor and legitimate moral celebration for doing exactly the same thing. You must show that each of these claims was done by God unjustly which is why I was very careful to not claim that God has never destroyed anyone and instead claimed he almost certainly had moral justification for doing so. The reason I was so careful is because I actually care about being correct in what I say. Now, since an entity can be perfectly justified or completely unjustified by doing each of the actions you list will you please show that God was one or the other in a specific case in the bible instead of a generic, generalized, and sweeping indictment which is so broad I can't respond.

That would be like killing the first born of all Americans because Obama approves of gay marriage

...then prior to that God hardens his heart so he wouldn't let them go.

That makes no sense and does not accurately represent anything in the actual bible but probably does represent the bible you have invented for the purpose of denial. This is getting so silly I am loosing any desire to debate claims this ridiculous. I hope you pick it up soon.

Was it a bad thing!? No, because God is right in all of his ways and justified in his sight (whether I think it's right or not. )

Again nothing specific is given and so I have nothing to examine except your wildly generalized declarations. Not one single scripture nor even the attempt to provide historical evidence. I do not reply to declarations with declarations so there is nothing to argue for or against so far.

So, your premise that god gets to drown, burn, and order people to annahilate women and children with the sword, but that it's not his will innocent children get tortured and killed is such an irrational premise (assuming you as a Baptist believe in the Bible) I have a hard time believing I'm talking to an adult...

Please quote me where I used a single term you have attributed to me. Now God does allow evil and has judged many people but you have yet to even attempt to show that any action he has ever taken is actually moral unjustifiable. Yet again I have nothing worthy of a response to even consider. I am not going to debate with the musings of a person who will not provide evidence against God or even scripture which is actually what they are attempting to impugn.

I'm 29 BTW.... Please tell me you aren't older than me while making such an argument that the god who burns, drowns, maims, and orders people to hack apart kids in scripture is a God who doesnt will some of his children to be tortured and killed.

I am way older and apparently much more experienced and mature in what I defend that you are concerning what you deny. I made arguments like you did when I was an atheistic teenager and in my early years of being a Christian. I look back on those arguments I used to make, and am ashamed. I even went through spells where I was emotionally appalled by what God has done. However as I matured and became well educated by my betters in philosophy and religion I dropped the sophomoric complaints that you are making here. However these accusations you made and I am responding to are not going to prove anything and I am fast becoming convinced this is all you have to offer. Please pick up your argumentation to a mature level.

I could have seen how irrational such a premise is when I was in the first grade.

I am no longer responding to pathetic attempts to drag the discussion down to a childish level. I hope you desist as I am loosing any desire to entertain with this kind of thing. Even atheistic philosophers have learned that there is no "contradiction between the existence of moral evil and the existence of a perfect God" and have abandoned even bringing up such an argument in the modern era. I thought you would respond to the simplistic arguments that demonstrate this but you prove to be even more irrationally bitter than they have been in earlier times.

On what basis do you claim to be a Christian? You seem to bitterly condemn that which you claim to profess.

 

[1robin]

It is the flag of the guy in the avatar....

A Pope flag?

You once again dodged my question which was simple, to the point, and a yes or no answer. In fact you have dodged many questions and ignored much of my post.

I have tried to respond to silly questions as if they were appropriate and relevant questions as to the issue of "the problem of evil". If I do not do so they remain irrelevant and inappropriate to a mature debate.

God drowned innocent babies, women, kids, burned them, ordered them to be hacked up by israelites, killed the first born of Egypt who had nothing to do with Pharaoh or his sin.

Have you ever seen how few babies were killed as the result of that decree? Regardless those babies are now in Heaven instead of being corrupted by the virtual universal fact that Egyptian adults rejected God and followed false God's and all the despicable and morally bankrupt actions demanded by these false God's including the either chattel slavery of the Hebrews or their forced indenture hood. Now maybe you hope hey Hebrews were still dying at 25 due to overwork as claimed on their tombstones or that the few children killed by the angel of death were left to grow up as evil as their parents could make them and wind up in Hell instead of Heaven but you would be as evil as the God you have invented and maligned. Why do you cherry pick events then strip them of the context found in the same book that you claim found your accusations in. It is dishonest to point figures at the 1% of the bible you do not like and fail to take into account the 99% of the same book that makes these events morally justified.

Like killing all first born Americans for the President's hard -heartedness... I'm a Christian by my definition of Christianity, in that I like what Jesus taught about charity, forgiveness, love those hardest to love, be humble.

If you could support your accusations from the actual bible there is no point in thinking up false stories to lend them weight.

I'm a Christian to the extent that I constantly petition in Jesus name, bless in Jesus name, ask Jesus to come into my heart and make me his obedient instrument, pray always that I do his will...

This is not what in the Bible makes anyone a Christian but this does show why your claiming all these things. Please try again. What makes you think your a Christian, this time you should use the actual book that lays out how we become citizens in the kingdom of God (i.e. Christians)? The fact you can't use the other 99% of the bible to demonstrate your points is starting to become clear. In fact God gives in the exact book you impugn the reasons why his actions are justified in countless scriptures. The motivation for your cherry picking concerning the bible is starting to come clear but I will give you another chance before I adopt my conclusions no matter how obvious at this point. In fact I will await your response before I get to the rest. There is no point in my assuming you should know x or y, until you give me evidence you actually do. The character of my argumentation depends on it so much that I need to know your actual status so I know what underlying presumptions your worldview forces on you before I can tailor my responses. So before we move on please adequately answer the bolded question and please use a biblical proof for your answer because your own definition has no relevance compared with Christ's definition.

 

[Spiderman]

A Pope flag?

I have tried to respond to silly questions as if they were appropriate and relevant questions as to the issue of "the problem of evil". If I do not do so they remain irrelevant and inappropriate to a mature debate.

Have you ever seen how few babies were killed as the result of that decree? Regardless those babies are now in Heaven instead of being corrupted by the virtual universal fact that Egyptian adults rejected God and followed false God's and all the despicable and morally bankrupt actions demanded by these false God's including the either chattel slavery of the Hebrews or their forced indenture hood. Now maybe you hope hey Hebrews were still dying at 25 due to overwork as claimed on their tombstones or that the few children killed by the angel of death were left to grow up as evil as their parents could make them and wind up in Hell instead of Heaven but you would be as evil as the God you have invented and maligned. Why do you cherry pick events then strip them of the context found in the same book that you claim found your accusations in. It is dishonest to point figures at the 1% of the bible you do not like and fail to take into account the 99% of the same book that makes these events morally justified.

If you could support your accusations from the actual bible there is no point in thinking up false stories to lend them weight.

This is not what in the Bible makes anyone a Christian but this does show why your claiming all these things. Please try again. What makes you think your a Christian, this time you should use the actual book that lays out how we become citizens in the kingdom of God (i.e. Christians)? The fact you can't use the other 99% of the bible to demonstrate your points is starting to become clear. In fact God gives in the exact book you impugn the reasons why his actions are justified in countless scriptures. The motivation for your cherry picking concerning the bible is starting to come clear but I will give you another chance before I adopt my conclusions no matter how obvious at this point. In fact I will await your response before I get to the rest. There is no point in my assuming you should know x or y, until you give me evidence you actually do. The character of my argumentation depends on it so much that I need to know your actual status so I know what underlying presumptions your worldview forces on you before I can tailor my responses. So before we move on please adequately answer the bolded question and please use a biblical proof for your answer because your own definition has no relevance compared with Christ's definition.

I see you can't answer a simple yes or no question which is completely relative to the conversation about God giving the wolf permission to tear apart the sheep.

Since you can't answer a simple question 100% relevant to the thread topic demonstrates your credibility ....and until you answer the question, checkmate!

Exodus 9:12 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.

So, God hardens Pharaoh's heart and then kills innocent children for the hardness of Pharoah's heart.

God killed babies that never sinned and told people to hack them up with swords.... But you answered " no, it isn't god's will that some of his children get tortured and murdered "....Brilliant!

I didn't say I'm Christian according to someone else's definition, I said " im a Christian in so far as... "

Tell me, which verses in the Bible say what a Christian is.... So, someone who questions the accuracy of the Old Testament and disagrees with God's actions isn't Christian? Where does it say that in the Bible.

Okay, I'm not Christian according to your definition of Christianity and your interpretation of Scripture.

Beings that you deny the obvious and shy away from simple questions 100% relevant to the topic ( repeatedly presented to you,) goes to show your level of credibility and poor abilities at debating.

Due to your clear demonstration of denying the obvious and ruining your credibility, it doesn't bother me too much that you claim I'm not Christian

 

[Spiderman]

I'm at a phone now, but tommorow when I get to a computer, I shall present to you plenty more scriptures... It's just kind of annoying on the phone and not too necessary, as everyone who read the Bible knows God kills enormous amounts of innocent children and gives the wolf permission to eat his sheep.

You already know this so it's kinda pointless, but to play your game I'll provide the Scriptures when it's convenient for me

 

[Spiderman]

Also, this quote demonstrates your clear blatant dishonesty:

"I have tried to respond to silly questions as if they were appropriate and relevant questions as to the issue of "the problem of evil".

You have no excuse for saying something so obviously false when I presented the question more than once in a yes or no form... And the question was about somebody giving somebody permission to kill their kids, which is totally relevant to "the problem of good and evil!

Since you are an adult, I'm assuming you at least have enough ability to identify the obvious to know your statement is complete falsehood!

(as any rational thinker who witnesses your blunder can see as clearly as knowing gravity pulled a falling object down rather than up....

...Meaning , to deny your falsehood was false would be like denying that objects fall down rather than up.... Meaning, you deny the obvious as everyone (including you) can see .

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A Pope flag?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Vatican_City

 

[psychoslice]

All I can really say is that, if there is a God that I don't personally believe there is, then he has a lot to answer for.