Is it anti-Semetic to desire a Palestinian State?

[Spiderman]

I love Israel and glad Israel exists as a Jewish state. If I could, I would restore the Temple.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state," a term that appeared in the United Nations partition decision of 1947 as well.

However, I have studied what life is like for Palestinians in the West Bank, and it sounds worse than an American prison to me. I don't know. I have never been there. Have you? I have seen documentaries on it, and I have been to an American prison. I would prefer prison than some of the videos I saw of life for certain people in the West Bank.

I certainly want Israeli-Arab relations to be good, as I want everyone happy, but it seems like Palestinians are particularly condemned to a living Hell on earth for many.

I have always had a fantasy that the feud (which kinda dates back to Isaac and Ishmael), will come to a very happy closure, and ending where they love each other (despite their differences), as children of Abraham.

Israeli occupation of the West Bank seems a bit harsh to me, but they kind of have to be, when the threat from the Palestinians , and the obvious hatred so many of them have for Israelis, is so present.

I personally just think the situation in the middle East is ugly. Atrocities are in abundance on both sides. I tend to favor Israel, because they simply strike me as being far FAR less prone to any type of dark-aged religious extremism, but I'm kinda in favor of two-state solution, and some evangelicals say that's anti-Semitic to desire such, or be critical of Israeli occupation of the West-bank.

The two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict envisions an independent State of Palestine alongside the State of Israel, west of the Jordan River. It sounds good to me if only many Palestinians would indoctrinate their children with love for their Jewish neighbors instead of hate. (I'm sure there are some that do.)

What is your solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict?

( I need to know, because, when I get sober long-term and all, I'm going to become a prophet when I grow up, and solve the problems there, so I need some ideas. Thank you! )

 

[Spiderman]

Countries that are obviously committing worse atrocities? (think China, N. Korea, certain African countries, Syria, etc) are often not discussed as much as Israel or held to the same degree of accountability is something someone at this forum brought to my attention.

And, do you deny Israel's right to exist? If you do, yes, that is anti-semetic.

And Arabs are Semites.....so, I answered my own question. Obviously it isn't anti-semetic to desire a Palestinian state. Duh!

But does it strike you as being a bit at odds with the Jewish state? A little on the Anti-Israeli spectrum?

 

[Spiderman]

Does being hypercritical of Israeli occupation of the West-bank raise flags for you as being anti-Israeli (antisemetic)

 

[Spirit of Light]

Countries that are obviously committing worse atrocities? (think China, N. Korea, certain African countries, Syria, etc) are often not discussed as much as Israel or held to the same degree of accountability is something someone at this forum brought to my attention.

And, do you deny Israel's right to exist? If you do, yes, that is anti-semetic.

And Arabs are Semites.....so, I answered my own question. Obviously it isn't anti-semetic to desire a Palestinian state. Duh!

But does it strike you as being a bit at odds with the Jewish state? A little on the Anti-Israeli spectrum?

I think that as long you just want both Palestine and Israel to co-exist, it is not anti-Semitic because you wish the best for both Jews and Palestine Muslims If you only wanted Palestine to exist and remove Israel that would in my understanding be anti-Semitic.
But maybe if there are any Israeli here they could answer if they feel you are being anti-Semitic by wanting Palestine to exist

 

[Twilight Hue]

I love Israel and glad Israel exists as a Jewish state. If I could, I would restore the Temple.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state," a term that appeared in the United Nations partition decision of 1947 as well.

However, I have studied what life is like for Palestinians in the West Bank, and it sounds worse than an American prison to me. I don't know. I have never been there. Have you? I have seen documentaries on it, and I have been to an American prison. I would prefer prison than some of the videos I saw of life for certain people in the West Bank.

I certainly want Israeli-Arab relations to be good, as I want everyone happy, but it seems like Palestinians are particularly condemned to a living Hell on earth for many.

I have always had a fantasy that the feud (which kinda dates back to Isaac and Ishmael), will come to a very happy closure, and ending where they love each other (despite their differences), as children of Abraham.

Israeli occupation of the West Bank seems a bit harsh to me, but they kind of have to be, when the threat from the Palestinians , and the obvious hatred so many of them have for Israelis, is so present.

I personally just think the situation in the middle East is ugly. Atrocities are in abundance on both sides. I tend to favor Israel, because they simply strike me as being far FAR less prone to any type of dark-aged religious extremism, but I'm kinda in favor of two-state solution, and some evangelicals say that's anti-Semitic to desire such, or be critical of Israeli occupation of the West-bank.

The two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict envisions an independent State of Palestine alongside the State of Israel, west of the Jordan River. It sounds good to me if only many Palestinians would indoctrinate their children with love for their Jewish neighbors instead of hate. (I'm sure there are some that do.)

What is your solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict?

( I need to know, because, when I get sober long-term and all, I'm going to become a prophet when I grow up, and solve the problems there, so I need some ideas. Thank you! )

There is no desire for a Palestinian state.

Yasser Arafat was proof of that.

 

[Spirit of Light]

There is no desire for a Palestinian state.

Yasser Arafat was proof of that.

Do you mean that no human being on this planet wants Palestine to exist?¨
I think both @Spiderman and my self are two people who would like to see both Israel and Palestine Co-exist

 

[Twilight Hue]

Do you mean that no human being on this planet wants Palestine to exist?¨
I think both @Spiderman and my self are two people who would like to see both Israel and Palestine Co-exist

Yasser was givin a wonderful opportunity to finally acquiesce a free and fully recognized Palestinian state.

His answer?


No.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Yasser was givin a wonderful opportunity of a free and fully recognized Palestinian state.

His answer?


No.

That is a long time ago now, it does not mean that it should not be possible today. But both Palestine and Isreal have to put down their weapons against each other to be able to hold peace. (in my view)

 

[Nakosis]

I love Israel and glad Israel exists as a Jewish state. If I could, I would restore the Temple.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state," a term that appeared in the United Nations partition decision of 1947 as well.

However, I have studied what life is like for Palestinians in the West Bank, and it sounds worse than an American prison to me. I don't know. I have never been there. Have you? I have seen documentaries on it, and I have been to an American prison. I would prefer prison than some of the videos I saw of life for certain people in the West Bank.

I certainly want Israeli-Arab relations to be good, as I want everyone happy, but it seems like Palestinians are particularly condemned to a living Hell on earth for many.

I have always had a fantasy that the feud (which kinda dates back to Isaac and Ishmael), will come to a very happy closure, and ending where they love each other (despite their differences), as children of Abraham.

Israeli occupation of the West Bank seems a bit harsh to me, but they kind of have to be, when the threat from the Palestinians , and the obvious hatred so many of them have for Israelis, is so present.

I personally just think the situation in the middle East is ugly. Atrocities are in abundance on both sides. I tend to favor Israel, because they simply strike me as being far FAR less prone to any type of dark-aged religious extremism, but I'm kinda in favor of two-state solution, and some evangelicals say that's anti-Semitic to desire such, or be critical of Israeli occupation of the West-bank.

The two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict envisions an independent State of Palestine alongside the State of Israel, west of the Jordan River. It sounds good to me if only many Palestinians would indoctrinate their children with love for their Jewish neighbors instead of hate. (I'm sure there are some that do.)

What is your solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict?

( I need to know, because, when I get sober long-term and all, I'm going to become a prophet when I grow up, and solve the problems there, so I need some ideas. Thank you! )

I think we ought to eliminate all forms of tribalism.

 

[sun rise]

I personally just think the situation in the middle East is ugly. Atrocities are in abundance on both sides.

That's the sad part.

Yasser was givin a wonderful opportunity to finally acquiesce a free and fully recognized Palestinian state.

His answer?


No.

That was quite a few decades ago. But if you're asking if it's conceivable in today's climate where we have growing radicalism on both sides, my answer is 'no'. Neither side wants one. Both would rather have the current mess last for a thousand years rather than compromise.

That was underlined by this story from an Israeli news source (behind paywall):

'The Job Wasn’t Completed in 1948. The Land Wasn't Emptied of Arabs'
Veteran Israeli filmmaker Avi Mograbi’s latest documentary draws on soldiers' damning testimonies to expose the Israeli occupation. Don't expect to see it on Israeli TV or at any local film festival

 

[Kooky]

I dislike the idea of ethnostates, which I guess makes me an antisemite in the eye of certain people for whose identity that is very important.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I love Israel and glad Israel exists as a Jewish state. If I could, I would restore the Temple.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state," a term that appeared in the United Nations partition decision of 1947 as well.

However, I have studied what life is like for Palestinians in the West Bank, and it sounds worse than an American prison to me. I don't know. I have never been there. Have you? I have seen documentaries on it, and I have been to an American prison. I would prefer prison than some of the videos I saw of life for certain people in the West Bank.

I certainly want Israeli-Arab relations to be good, as I want everyone happy, but it seems like Palestinians are particularly condemned to a living Hell on earth for many.

I have always had a fantasy that the feud (which kinda dates back to Isaac and Ishmael), will come to a very happy closure, and ending where they love each other (despite their differences), as children of Abraham.

Israeli occupation of the West Bank seems a bit harsh to me, but they kind of have to be, when the threat from the Palestinians , and the obvious hatred so many of them have for Israelis, is so present.

I personally just think the situation in the middle East is ugly. Atrocities are in abundance on both sides. I tend to favor Israel, because they simply strike me as being far FAR less prone to any type of dark-aged religious extremism, but I'm kinda in favor of two-state solution, and some evangelicals say that's anti-Semitic to desire such, or be critical of Israeli occupation of the West-bank.

The two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict envisions an independent State of Palestine alongside the State of Israel, west of the Jordan River. It sounds good to me if only many Palestinians would indoctrinate their children with love for their Jewish neighbors instead of hate. (I'm sure there are some that do.)

What is your solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict?

( I need to know, because, when I get sober long-term and all, I'm going to become a prophet when I grow up, and solve the problems there, so I need some ideas. Thank you! )

It's not anti-semetic to support a Palestinian state, in and of itself. WHY you support such an entity would speak more to whether you're an anti-semite, I would say.
Based on your OP, I'm thinking your rationale is much more optimistic and positive...give people a place to call their own, and peace will have more of a chance.
If I'm reading that right, that doesn't strike me as anti-semetic at all.

It does strike me as hopeful to the point of naivety, but I don't mean that as a criticism. It's more just that I really struggle to see an effective way out of the current situation.
To be fair, I struggled to see a way for Northern Ireland to transition out of the extreme sectarianism of the 70s and 80s as well, so fair to suggest I'm no Nostradamus.

One thing that I would say the current situation in the Middle East has in common with Ireland is that there is a long, and somewhat convoluted history which remains impactful, right to the present day. Just because I am a history geek, I spend a lot of time studying the post-WW2 situation, including the formation of modern Israel, and (particularly) the 1948 war, the 6-day war, and the Yom Kippur War.

That was enough for me to know I was really just scratching the surface, and I'd never have a full appreciation for either side, although it did at least give me some appreciation for the generational history at play today.

I have no solutions. Sorry, I wish I did. As with all such conflicts, it's obvious to say 'everyone needs to put their weapons down' but that has very little meaning in the real world. It's a platitude at best.

If I was going to try and draw parallels from other sectarian conflicts, the key planks required for any meaningful change would be that influential leaders within the more extreme factions need to see a method to achieve peace without completely losing face and power. That is extraordinarily difficult in reality.

At the risk of drifting into a tangent, I'm far better read about Irish conflicts than the Middle East. Factional leaders were scared of compromise not ONLY for their own selfish reasons, but also because there were always more extreme elements looking for ways to take leadership of popular movements. A sectarian leader who is seeking compromises risks not only his own leadership position (at best...or being declared a traitor more extremely), but he risks seeing the organisation he belongs to co-opted by more extreme members, taking actions provocative in nature to appeal to their base and shore up their support.

It happened countless times in Ireland, and even my smattering of Middle Eastern history is enough for me to know a similar influence has been at play multiple times there as well.

 

[rosends]

The question needs to be questioned to define terms:

What is a "Palestinian" and what would a "Palestinian state" be?

This language presumes a pre-existing set of people who have a unique identity and want a state to preserve their rights as that identity. Were there Americans before 1776 (or thereabouts) who could have felt that they deserved their own country/state based on that already extant national identity? Or were there British colonists who, dissatisfied with their identity as colonists, wanted to separate from that colonial group and create the national identity of Americans? Or were there "north Americans" known by their geographical positioning, but made of diverse individuals so the eventual country had a title which applied to that variety of people?

To want a state without denying anyone else the right to continue to have a state isn't "anti-anything" but to claim another state as your own based on your own identity, and thus denying the other his identity is problematic. To reject offers (plural) of a state and of independence because the offers either are not exactly what one wants, or because the offers allow another state to continue to exist point to an underlying goal not of an independent state but of something more nefarious.

 

[stvdv]

I need to know

Is it anti-Semetic to desire a Palestinian State?

Thanks, I love easy questions:
Short answer = NO
Long answer = Of course NOT

IF you need more explaining, just ask, I can give you proof

 

[Kenny]

I love Israel and glad Israel exists as a Jewish state. If I could, I would restore the Temple.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state," a term that appeared in the United Nations partition decision of 1947 as well.

However, I have studied what life is like for Palestinians in the West Bank, and it sounds worse than an American prison to me. I don't know. I have never been there. Have you? I have seen documentaries on it, and I have been to an American prison. I would prefer prison than some of the videos I saw of life for certain people in the West Bank.

I certainly want Israeli-Arab relations to be good, as I want everyone happy, but it seems like Palestinians are particularly condemned to a living Hell on earth for many.

I have always had a fantasy that the feud (which kinda dates back to Isaac and Ishmael), will come to a very happy closure, and ending where they love each other (despite their differences), as children of Abraham.

Israeli occupation of the West Bank seems a bit harsh to me, but they kind of have to be, when the threat from the Palestinians , and the obvious hatred so many of them have for Israelis, is so present.

I personally just think the situation in the middle East is ugly. Atrocities are in abundance on both sides. I tend to favor Israel, because they simply strike me as being far FAR less prone to any type of dark-aged religious extremism, but I'm kinda in favor of two-state solution, and some evangelicals say that's anti-Semitic to desire such, or be critical of Israeli occupation of the West-bank.

The two-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict envisions an independent State of Palestine alongside the State of Israel, west of the Jordan River. It sounds good to me if only many Palestinians would indoctrinate their children with love for their Jewish neighbors instead of hate. (I'm sure there are some that do.)

What is your solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict?

( I need to know, because, when I get sober long-term and all, I'm going to become a prophet when I grow up, and solve the problems there, so I need some ideas. Thank you! )

There is no problems with two states, IMO. The problem is the hurdles that make it impossible.

It is hard to have two states when one wants the other eradicated from the face of the earth.

And again, if there was a real desire for peace one would think that Palestine would have moved forward towards its own people after receiving monies...

Not saying Israel is a saint but all things considering, if the heart of Palestine was truly peace, it would have already been achieved with all the compromise that Israel has given.

 

[stvdv]

Is it anti-Semetic to desire a Palestinian State?

NO ... "I desire women" does not imply "I am anti-men"

 

[Kooky]

The history of the Middle East isn't any more convoluted than the history of any other place on earth in my opinion, it's just that most people don't really care to learn about it when forming an opinion on the current political situation.

 

[Spiderman]

It's not anti-semetic to support a Palestinian state, in and of itself. WHY you support such an entity would speak more to whether you're an anti-semite, I would say.
Based on your OP, I'm thinking your rationale is much more optimistic and positive...give people a place to call their own, and peace will have more of a chance.
If I'm reading that right, that doesn't strike me as anti-semetic at all.

It does strike me as hopeful to the point of naivety, but I don't mean that as a criticism. It's more just that I really struggle to see an effective way out of the current situation.
To be fair, I struggled to see a way for Northern Ireland to transition out of the extreme sectarianism of the 70s and 80s as well, so fair to suggest I'm no Nostradamus.

One thing that I would say the current situation in the Middle East has in common with Ireland is that there is a long, and somewhat convoluted history which remains impactful, right to the present day. Just because I am a history geek, I spend a lot of time studying the post-WW2 situation, including the formation of modern Israel, and (particularly) the 1948 war, the 6-day war, and the Yom Kippur War.

That was enough for me to know I was really just scratching the surface, and I'd never have a full appreciation for either side, although it did at least give me some appreciation for the generational history at play today.

I have no solutions. Sorry, I wish I did. As with all such conflicts, it's obvious to say 'everyone needs to put their weapons down' but that has very little meaning in the real world. It's a platitude at best.

If I was going to try and draw parallels from other sectarian conflicts, the key planks required for any meaningful change would be that influential leaders within the more extreme factions need to see a method to achieve peace without completely losing face and power. That is extraordinarily difficult in reality.

At the risk of drifting into a tangent, I'm far better read about Irish conflicts than the Middle East. Factional leaders were scared of compromise not ONLY for their own selfish reasons, but also because there were always more extreme elements looking for ways to take leadership of popular movements. A sectarian leader who is seeking compromises risks not only his own leadership position (at best...or being declared a traitor more extremely), but he risks seeing the organisation he belongs to co-opted by more extreme members, taking actions provocative in nature to appeal to their base and shore up their support.

It happened countless times in Ireland, and even my smattering of Middle Eastern history is enough for me to know a similar influence has been at play multiple times there as well.

Great post, thanks!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The history of the Middle East isn't any more convoluted than the history of any other place on earth in my opinion, it's just that most people don't really care to learn about it when forming an opinion on the current political situation.

I strongly disagree, although there are other places that are as convoluted.

 

[Kooky]

I strongly disagree, although there are other places that are as convoluted.

For example Europe, Africa, North and South America, and the rest of Asia.