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Is Israel commiting war crimes? Urban warfare expert weighs in

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
How you can tout criminal behaviopr as anything worth admiring. Or do you condemn criminal behavior, and if so, why publicize it?

First, there is the problem of Oxfam as an organization. I posted info about that but you haven't considered it, it seems. Next, you keep using the words "collective punishment" . You really should read up on the laws in this regard


There -- legal arguments explaining why the term "ethnic cleansing" is being used inappropriately. Read up. Or you could just dismiss the legal facts because you don't like the source.

Quoting from Israelis their legal justification for crimes against humanity -- doesn't count for much friend. >>> OK .. we should listen to what they say .. but the weight on the scale of "objective evidence" is very slight .. this juxtaposted to a back drop of most every nation and person on the planet on the other side of the scale.

but in simplistic terms -- We all know the Israeli's are going to lie as best they can in this respect .. just as the US does in war .. just as Russia .. China... Syria .. Iran .. NATO .. and how is it that you do not know this ? and know that feeding on only one - and only one- propaganda straw is not objective assessment.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Quoting from Israelis their legal justification for crimes against humanity -- doesn't count for much friend. >>> OK .. we should listen to what they say .. but the weight on the scale of "objective evidence" is very slight .. this juxtaposted to a back drop of most every nation and person on the planet on the other side of the scale.
Ah, so because they are Israeli (though, no, they aren't all, but whatever) the law shouldn't be applied? And the facts need to be weighed against people and not facts? Your view is quite skewed.
but in simplistic terms -- We all know the Israeli's are going to lie as best they can in this respect .. just as the US does in war .. just as Russia .. China... Syria .. Iran .. NATO
and Hamas. So you automatically reject anything they say, right? And the UN. Or do you have a line on some "truth" and can tell when anyone in the world is not toeing your party line?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Ah, so because they are Israeli (though, no, they aren't all, but whatever) the law shouldn't be applied? And the facts need to be weighed against people and not facts? Your view is quite skewed.

and Hamas. So you automatically reject anything they say, right? And the UN. Or do you have a line on some "truth" and can tell when anyone in the world is not toeing your party line?

"so Because they are israeli ... the law shouldn't be applied" -- didn't come from me friend .. after which you cry.. "Your view is quite skewed" - a classic strawman fallacy :) well done.

A terrible post - fallacious deflection from the fact that the world does want International Law to be applied -- as Israel is guilty of war crimes - crimes againt humanity - and "Ethnic Cleansing".

You were going to tell us about your views on Ethnic Cleansing -- the Twisted view of Judaism you promised.. claiming to be an expert.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
"so Because they are israeli ... the law shouldn't be applied" -- didn't come from me friend
really?
"Quoting from Israelis their legal justification for crimes against humanity -- doesn't count for much friend"
Israelis invoking the legal issues doesn't count for much? So when Israelis point to the laws, that doesn't carry any weight for you? Law from Israelis "doesn't count for much"? All this came from you and I provided your direct quote to prove it. Just another case in which you don't even know what you wrote.
.. after which you cry.. "Your view is quite skewed" - a classic strawman fallacy :) well done.
No, the view that "Quoting from Israelis their legal justification for crimes against humanity -- doesn't count for much friend" is a skewed view.
A terrible post - fallacious deflection from the fact that the world does want International Law to be applied -- as Israel is guilty of war crimes - crimes againt humanity - and "Ethnic Cleansing".

You were going to tell us about your views on Ethnic Cleansing -- the Twisted view of Judaism you promised.. claiming to be an expert.
You have completely lost it. I presented the legal definitions and showed why your view is twisted while YOU were the one insisting anything about anything biblical. You aren't reading what you wrote, let alone what I posted.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
really?
"Quoting from Israelis their legal justification for crimes against humanity -- doesn't count for much friend"
Israelis invoking the legal issues doesn't count for much? So when Israelis point to the laws, that doesn't carry any weight for you? Law from Israelis "doesn't count for much"? All this came from you and I provided your direct quote to prove it. Just another case in which you don't even know what you wrote.

No, the view that "Quoting from Israelis their legal justification for crimes against humanity -- doesn't count for much friend" is a skewed view.

You have completely lost it. I presented the legal definitions and showed why your view is twisted while YOU were the one insisting anything about anything biblical. You aren't reading what you wrote, let alone what I posted.

Of course the Kangaroo legal justification given by the Aggressor in a war is going to be suspect .. Reality 101. how is it you are not aware of this ?

but it matters not - because Israeli law is not international law .. it is the UN legal justification that Matters as this body is the arbiter of international law .. not the Israeli's .. or any other war monger. Bush's legal ramblings over Iraq .. did not change the fact that USA was in violation of international law. .. and under that body .. and in the opinion of humanitarian organizations and groups around the world .. Israel is commiting war crimes - crimes against humanity - Ethnic Cleansing ---

1700661810543.png
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Of course the Kangaroo legal justification given by the Aggressor in a war is going to be suspect .. Reality 101. how is it you are not aware of this ?
So any quoting of law by Israel (or any aggressor? like Hamas?) is necessarily suspect? No, the law remains the law, no matter how much you want to ignore it.
but it matters not - because Israeli law is not international law .. it is the UN legal justification that Matters as this body is the arbiter of international law
No, it doesn't. Do you not know this? You really are clueless.
 

Bthoth

A Conscious and Capable, Pantheist
Ah, so because they are Israeli (though, no, they aren't all, but whatever) the law shouldn't be applied?

Chapter 3: Israeli Settlements and International Law

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” It also prohibits the “individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory”.

The extensive appropriation of land and the appropriation and destruction of property required to build and expand settlements also breach other rules of international humanitarian law. Under the Hague Regulations of 1907,

The unlawful appropriation of property by an occupying power amounts to “pillage”, which is prohibited by both the Hague Regulations and Fourth Geneva Convention and is a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and many national laws.

Israel’s building of settlements in the West Bank, including in East Jerusalem, does not respect any of these rules and exceptions. Transferring the occupying power’s civilians into the occupied territory is prohibited without exception.

Israel has been breaking the law for decades.

Maybe a new law should be written that supporters of Israel can be found criminal.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member

Chapter 3: Israeli Settlements and International Law

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states: “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” It also prohibits the “individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory”.

The extensive appropriation of land and the appropriation and destruction of property required to build and expand settlements also breach other rules of international humanitarian law. Under the Hague Regulations of 1907,

The unlawful appropriation of property by an occupying power amounts to “pillage”, which is prohibited by both the Hague Regulations and Fourth Geneva Convention and is a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and many national laws.

Israel’s building of settlements in the West Bank, including in East Jerusalem, does not respect any of these rules and exceptions. Transferring the occupying power’s civilians into the occupied territory is prohibited without exception.

Israel has been breaking the law for decades.

Maybe a new law should be written that supporters of Israel can be found criminal.
Yawn. Here's some light reading by someone who is an exprt on the subject

 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yawn. Here's some light reading by someone who is an exprt on the subject

I wasted time reading that article.
It's filled with allusion to authority,
& it lacks legal rigor. His arguments
are no more reasoned & evidenced
than yours.
What else would we expect from an
Israeli Jew who supports Zionism &
the eviction of Arabs, eh.
 

Bthoth

A Conscious and Capable, Pantheist
I wasted time reading that article.
It's filled with allusion to authority,
That is why the criminal use israeli opinion; unwilling to follow laws
& it lacks legal rigor. His arguments
are no more reasoned & evidenced
than yours.
Same kind of dross.
What else would we expect from an
Israeli Jew who supports Zionism &
the eviction of Arabs, eh.
Borderline genocide and illegal. The zionist/israeli are doing more damage to Jews than anything since ww2.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Borderline genocide and illegal. The zionist/israeli are doing more damage to Jews than anything since ww2.
I just heard an interview on NPR with an Israeli
who quoted scripture to justify killing Palestinians.
Ugh.
But it's not about religion....they say.
 

Bthoth

A Conscious and Capable, Pantheist
I just heard an interview on NPR with an Israeli
who quoted scripture to justify killing Palestinians.
Ugh.
But it's not about religion....they say.
Israeli are the dross, not the Jew.
The whole reason that state is in palestine, is because of the delusional.

Sad part is, them zionist are doing more damage to Jews, than helping.

I watched a man in israel talking about his child taken as a hostage and I wish I could tell him to move out of that apartheid. Come here where they can be safe and happy without living under the hatred and apartheid of israel.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Israeli are the dross, not the Jew.
The whole reason that state is in palestine, is because of the delusional.

Sad part is, them zionist are doing more damage to Jews, than helping.

I watched a man in israel talking about his child taken as a hostage and I wish I could tell him to move out of that apartheid. Come here where they can be safe and happy without living under the hatred and apartheid of israel.
Not all Israelis favor apartheid.
Not all Jews elsewhere favor peace.
Just yesterday, NPR interviewed an Israeli Jew
who moved here after that Oct attack. She
wanted Israel to deny water to everyone in
Palestine until all Hamas fighters are dead.
Kill'm all, eh.
Jews are not better than Muslims or Christians
or anyone else. They too can go crazy, & lose
their humanity towards others, just as has
happened elsewhere, eg, USA v Indians, Nazis
v Jews, S Africa v blacks, Russians v Russians.
 
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Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
Just a few examples gleaned from the internet.
Indeed, I found some too, of a different kind.

"As part of an ongoing investigation into violations of the laws of war during the conflict, Amnesty has documented two illustrative cases in which Israeli airstrikes killed 46 civilians, including 20 children. The oldest victim was an 80-year-old woman and the youngest was a three-month-old baby. These attacks must be investigated as war crimes.

The attacks, which occurred on 19 and 20 October, hit a church building where hundreds of displaced civilians were sheltering in Gaza City, and a home in al-Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza"

Israel/OPT: detailed investigation into two Israeli attacks in Gaza shows mass killing of civilians.

[Amnesty International]

Nice work IDF! You sure showed Hamas...
 

Bthoth

A Conscious and Capable, Pantheist
Not all Israelis favor apartheid.
Not all Jews elsewhere favor peace.
Just yesterday, NPR interviewed an Israeli Jew
who moved here after that Oct attack. She
wanted Israel to deny water to everyone in
Palestine until all Hamas fighters are dead.
Kill'm all, eh.
Jews are not better than Muslims or Christians
or anyone else. They too can go crazy, & lose
their humanity towards others, just as has
happened in USA v Indians, Nazis v Jews,
S Africa v blacks, Russians v Russians, etc, etc.
I consider Jews far better than israel, based on their own integrity and keeping the rules of personal responsibility, the commandments.

The dross/israeli are condemned by god, as prophecy shares in the literature of judaism (tanakh)

I have a bit more pity than is shared in tanakh but slowly but surely the nasty are trying to turn me into something like they are. At least I can tell the difference of Jew and israeli just by their actions.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I consider Jews far better than israel, based on their own integrity and keeping the rules of personal responsibility, the commandments.
I see it varying with the individual.
the Kahanists are even worse than Israel.
Many Jews are better than Israel.
(It seems to be the younger ones.)
 

Bthoth

A Conscious and Capable, Pantheist
I see it varying with the individual.
the Kahanists are even worse than Israel.
Many Jews are better than Israel.
(It seems to be the younger ones.)
I do not find age as a factor, just integrity.

You can identify the jew by what they do, not what they claim to be.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
I watched a man in israel talking about his child taken as a hostage
I cannot watch such things. I can just about read about them.

When this all began, my initial appalled reaction was that Israel had every right to march into Gaza and figuratively smash Hamas's face in with a club. No problem, irrespective of who started what and when...and I said so here on RF the day it happened.

Now, after seeing what I called for, turn into a slaughter. I am sickened. This is not justice, this is not self defense, this is an unholy marriage of genocide and vengeance. There will be no winners here.
 

JIMMY12345

Active Member
An interesting op-ed at CNN by John Spencer, an expert of Urban Warfare studies.

Excerpt:

"On the other hand, nothing I have seen shows that the Israel Defense Forces are not following the laws of wars in Gaza, particularly when the charges that the IDF is committing war crimes so often come too quickly for there to have been an examination of the factors that determine whether an attack, and the resulting civilian casualties, are lawful. The factors that need to be assessed are the major dimensions of the most commonly agreed to international humanitarian law principles: military necessity, proportionality, distinction, humanity and honor."​
Worth reading the whole thing.
Yes (perhaps understandably)
 
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