Is conversion biblical?

[sojourner]

But those tithes were ritual sacrifices to god, in the form of livestock and crops, which were usually burnt, and what was left over usually went to the priest, so he wouldn't starve.

You're suggesting that the priest should starve?

We clergy receive stipendiary compensation -- not a salary. A salary is remuneration for contractual work accomplished. A stipend is compensation so that the church may have clergy whose time is fully devoted to the needs of the church and not to secular "work."
Trust me: We're not in this to get rich. Just ask my wife!

 

[sojourner]

It is OT yes but is mensioned in the NT also. Even if it wasn't though. Just being in the OT is enough. The bible is a complete work. Not OT or NT. If it was divided then we ought to just tear it in half and follow whichever half we like.
I'm not defending Tithing. Because I personally don't think it is right in the way it's portrayed today. I am saying though that giving money to the poor should be just that. Giving moey to the poor. Not the church.

But there is NT precedent for the Church supporting those in ministry. Additionally, the Church acts as an agent for alms. Most (if not all) church budgets include a sizeable portion for outreach. Most (if not all) denominations have an outreach department, so that contributions can be equitably disbursed in an expedient manner. Giving to the Church is, in effect, giving to the poor.

 

[Rejected]

You're suggesting that the priest should starve?

We clergy receive stipendiary compensation -- not a salary. A salary is remuneration for contractual work accomplished. A stipend is compensation so that the church may have clergy whose time is fully devoted to the needs of the church and not to secular "work."
Trust me: We're not in this to get rich. Just ask my wife!

No I'm not saying that the Clergy should starve, or that they should not be compensated for their devotion to the faith. I'm simply saying that a mandatory requirement of the congregations’ income is wrong. It shouldn't have to be necessary.

It should be a known fact that the clergy has devoted their life to service of the church and depends on the generosity of its patrons for their well-being.

The early leaders of the church probably realized that they would not be able to provide for themselves if they were expected to spend all their time in service to the church, so through the encouragement of offerings to God they were able to survive off of the surplus.

Unfortunately, it seems, the church got greedy and somewhere along the way and used the offerings of the people not to help the needy, but to fill their own coffers. And thus, more converts = more money = Roman Empire forcing the Christian religion on its subjects, Spanish Inquisition, etc.

 

[sojourner]

No I'm not saying that the Clergy should starve, or that they should not be compensated for their devotion to the faith. I'm simply saying that a mandatory requirement of the congregations’ income is wrong. It shouldn't have to be necessary.

It should be a known fact that the clergy has devoted their life to service of the church and depends on the generosity of its patrons for their well-being.

The early leaders of the church probably realized that they would not be able to provide for themselves if they were expected to spend all their time in service to the church, so through the encouragement of offerings to God they were able to survive off of the surplus.

Unfortunately, it seems, the church got greedy and somewhere along the way and used the offerings of the people not to help the needy, but to fill their own coffers. And thus, more converts = more money = Roman Empire forcing the Christian religion on its subjects, Spanish Inquisition, etc.

Most denominations do not impose the Tithe.

Not necessary...but desireable as a good spiritual discipline.

I'm not sure "surplus" is the right word. I'm sure that the collection was taken with their well-being in mind, as well as the plight of the poor.

And, unfortunately, this still goes on today. Some of these televangelists can rival Bill Gates. That's wrong.

I don't agree that greed was the motivating factor. The motivating factors were probably more political than monetary.

 

[Melody]

No, the teachers are not the perversions, you can’t expect people to know the story of the gospel from birth, it must be taught. What I’m against is the indiscriminate solicitation of money from the parsonage when it is in no way supported in scripture.

You'll get no disagreement from me on this. Unfortunately, I appear to be in the minority.

 

[Melody]

Giving to the Church is, in effect, giving to the poor.

In most cases, I've found that more of my money gets to the needy through other types of organizations than through the churches I've attended. All you have to do to prove it is pull their financials to see how much of their annual budget actually makes it to the people. You'll find it's substantially less than many charitable organizations.

 

[James the Persian]

In most cases, I've found that more of my money gets to the needy through other types of organizations than through the churches I've attended. All you have to do to prove it is pull their financials to see how much of their annual budget actually makes it to the people. You'll find it's substantially less than many charitable organizations.

Well I can say with some degree of certainty that this is not the case in my parish (and being on the parish council I actually see the accounts). The majority of the donations go on the upkeep of the church (and our priest has a secular job so he isn't taking a salary out of this either). The remainder pretty much all goes on charity. We don't buy a lot of icons or ritual objects, in fact I don't know of us buying a single one. They've all been donated by someone (for instance, one of the richer families donated a large icon of the parish patron recently). That means that the money that is donated goes to either supporting our community or to helping others. Under those circumstances I'm only too happy to donate what I can when I can but I agree with others who oppose mandatory tithing. That just seems wrong to me.

James